General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Ironman training plan for someone not doing an ironman Rss Feed  
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2008-06-05 8:19 AM

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Subject: Ironman training plan for someone not doing an ironman
have found a training plan I like on this website. It is the beginners's Ironman listed here:
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=...
I like it because it concides well with the amount of triaing I plan to do this summer. All I would have to do is lenghten the swim workouts, since I am a stronger swimmer than that plan assumes. I would also have to shorten some of the bike rides-like the 6 hour bike ride since I am not training for an Ironman.
Would it be okay to use a plan like this even if I am not training for an Ironman? I want to do an Ironman in a few years, but this year I am training for a half-marathon and an Olympic distance triathlon. This plan does fit in the way that it dosn't have me doing a ton of mileage. I am a really slow runner and an extremely slow bicyclist so getting overtrained on Ironman mileage shouldn't be a problem.
Do you think this would be the best plan for me or should I find a different plan? I also saw a lot of speedwork in the plan above. I have never done much speedwork before except in swimming, so I was woundering-how important is speedwork?
Thanks for the advice


2008-06-05 8:29 AM
in reply to: #1446686

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Subject: RE: Ironman training plan for someone not doing an ironman
Depends what results you're looking for. Ironman training is meant for, well, ironman events. If you want to perform at your best for an Oly, then you need to train for an Oly. Even if you're more focused on the half marathons, seems like you shouldn't do anything over the HIM training plan.

IMHO....When you're ready to complete an ironman, then start training for one.
2008-06-05 8:54 AM
in reply to: #1446686

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Subject: RE: Ironman training plan for someone not doing an ironman

I would definitely not look to an IM plan to get ready for an Oly distance event.  While they are both endurance events and some of the training will be similar, the race specific workouts between the two will be quite different.

Also, if your strength is swimming, I would curtail that and use the extra time for biking and running.  As a self described slow runner and extremely slow cyclist, you should put your training emphasis on these elements as you should be able to make large gains here as opposed to much smaller gains in the water.

As for speedwork, I'm not familiar with the specific plan but it would be rare to see much speedwork in a generic IM plan.  For the importance, it depends on what you consider speedwork but for novice athletes, traditional speedwork is often a small (or non-existant) part of the training program as the biggest gains will be made through consistent training.

Shane

2008-06-05 9:11 AM
in reply to: #1446787

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Subject: RE: Ironman training plan for someone not doing an ironman
gsmacleod - 2008-06-05 8:54 AM

I would definitely not look to an IM plan to get ready for an Oly distance event.  While they are both endurance events and some of the training will be similar, the race specific workouts between the two will be quite different.

Also, if your strength is swimming, I would curtail that and use the extra time for biking and running.  As a self described slow runner and extremely slow cyclist, you should put your training emphasis on these elements as you should be able to make large gains here as opposed to much smaller gains in the water.

As for speedwork, I'm not familiar with the specific plan but it would be rare to see much speedwork in a generic IM plan.  For the importance, it depends on what you consider speedwork but for novice athletes, traditional speedwork is often a small (or non-existant) part of the training program as the biggest gains will be made through consistent training.

Shane



x2. imho there's much more of a place for speedwork in Oly training vs. IM training. I was told while training for IM that unless I planned on legitimately racing, I didn't really need to speedwork.

Your aerobic base/fitness would undoubtedly benefit from IM hours, but if you don't need to, why put yourself through 20hr weeks? Having done it, it's not something I would do again just for kicks.

Also - if swimming is your strength, it doesn't warrant the lion's share of your training time. Train your weaknesses, race your strengths.
2008-06-05 1:12 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman training plan for someone not doing an ironman
Do you know what training plan I should use if the ironman plan isn't a good idea? I train about 9-10 hours a week and am planning on training more in the summer. I want something that would help me increase my volume of training and get me ready for longer distance events. All of the training plans I have looked at so far do not have enough workout hours.
Can you recommend any good (free) training plans? If not, would there be any way I could modify the ironman plan to suit my needs (i.e. skipping the 20 hour weeks, shortening the bike rides)
Thanks!
2008-06-05 1:24 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman training plan for someone not doing an ironman
gsmacleod - 2008-06-05 9:54 AM

I would definitely not look to an IM plan to get ready for an Oly distance event.  While they are both endurance events and some of the training will be similar, the race specific workouts between the two will be quite different.

x2. I am in IM training right now and can assure that I am not as fast at the sprint and Oly distance as I was last year. You want to be fast for Oly, and you need those specific sessions to get you there.



2008-06-05 1:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman training plan for someone not doing an ironman

amyro1234 - 2008-06-05 2:12 PM Do you know what training plan I should use if the ironman plan isn't a good idea? I train about 9-10 hours a week and am planning on training more in the summer. I want something that would help me increase my volume of training and get me ready for longer distance events. All of the training plans I have looked at so far do not have enough workout hours. Can you recommend any good (free) training plans? If not, would there be any way I could modify the ironman plan to suit my needs (i.e. skipping the 20 hour weeks, shortening the bike rides) Thanks!

If your A race is an Olympic, use an Olympic plan.

If your A race is the HIM, pick an HIM plan, and train through the Olympic.

There are lots of good free plans, that hundreds, maybe thousands, of people have successfully used to complete and excel at Olympic, and longer distances.



Edited by newleaf 2008-06-05 1:29 PM
2008-06-05 1:31 PM
in reply to: #1446686

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Subject: RE: Ironman training plan for someone not doing an ironman

What does your 9-10/hr week look like now?  How much time do you have to devote to training in the summer?  What are your goals for the oly?  For the HM?

2008-06-05 1:54 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman training plan for someone not doing an ironman
JohnnyKay - 2008-06-05 2:31 PM

What does your 9-10/hr week look like now?  How much time do you have to devote to training in the summer?  What are your goals for the oly?  For the HM?


My 9-10 hour week you can see in my logs. It involves a lot of swimming since I am on a swim team and love to swim! In the summer, I would like to be able to devote at least 12 hours a week to training. maybe 14, but not much over that. For the Oly, I would just like to finish, but would like to improve my bicycling (I'm really slow) so that that leg would not take me over 3 hours to finish.
As for the half-marathon, I would just like to finish and get some expierence doing longer races, since I would like to run a marathon eventually.
2008-06-05 2:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman training plan for someone not doing an ironman
So it looks like your weeks are about 90% swimming, in some cases more - pretty clear that you love being in the pool. However, to prep for your Oly, you're definitely going to have to chop that up and start putting in much more time running and biking (in the last 3 weeks it looks like you've bike a combined 2 hrs or so). Given that, I really don't think it would be a good idea to follow an IM plan, let alone trying to modify one.

Get out on the road!

Train your weakness, race your strength.
2008-06-05 2:22 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman training plan for someone not doing an ironman

OK, so you are on a swim team.  How often and how much do need to swim for that?  Is there a specific weekly schedule (doesn't look like it from your logs)?  Do you usually swim with the team or alone?

You don't run or bike much, so you can build on that but should do so SLOWLY.  Just because you have time to do it doesn't mean it's a good idea to just add it in.  Injury is a likely result if you do.  Especially with running, aim for building up to more frequent runs first.  Then start building on the duration of some of those runs.

Basically same drill for the bike, but you may be able to build up a little more quickly there.  If you really want to add hours to your current weekly volume, start with adding more biking.

Sounds like you are young.  Endurance sports are a multi-year endeavor.  Take your time.  You don't need any fancy plan or workouts right now.  Just find a schedule that you can repeat over and over.  Gradually add more biking & running as your fitness improves and as time allows.



2008-06-05 2:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman training plan for someone not doing an ironman
If your swimming is with a team and therefore out of your control, perhaps you could consider following an Olympic plan for the biking and running - keep the distances and frequencies but work them around your swimming.
2008-06-05 3:21 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman training plan for someone not doing an ironman

I'm going to go against everyone here.  

1. if your body can handle the volume than do the plan. Only you will know if you can handle it.  The volume is what is different with the free plans on BT. Not speed work. 

2. As a beginner, speed work is really not needed. you will get faster running/biking lots as an IM plan will make you do. Much more so than an OLY plan.

2008-06-05 3:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman training plan for someone not doing an ironman
ohiost90 - 2008-06-05 4:21 PM

I'm going to go against everyone here.  

1. if your body can handle the volume than do the plan. Only you will know if you can handle it.  The volume is what is different with the free plans on BT. Not speed work. 

Your bolded segment is important.  Did you check her logs?

2008-06-05 3:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman training plan for someone not doing an ironman
ohiost90 - 2008-06-05 5:21 PM

I'm going to go against everyone here.  

1. if your body can handle the volume than do the plan. Only you will know if you can handle it.  The volume is what is different with the free plans on BT. Not speed work. 

2. As a beginner, speed work is really not needed. you will get faster running/biking lots as an IM plan will make you do. Much more so than an OLY plan.

I would agree that if she can handle the volume then there is no reason not to do volume then there is no reason not to train at what would typically be considered IM levels in preparation for an OD race.

However, the specific workings of the plan are going to be different as one should train specifically for their race and IM and short course pacing should be quite different.  Some of the plan will look the same, but the differences are big enough that I wouldn't use an IM plan for a short course racer.

Shane

2008-06-05 4:32 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman training plan for someone not doing an ironman
ohiost90 - 2008-06-05 3:21 PM

I'm going to go against everyone here.  

1. if your body can handle the volume than do the plan. Only you will know if you can handle it.  The volume is what is different with the free plans on BT. Not speed work. 

2. As a beginner, speed work is really not needed. you will get faster running/biking lots as an IM plan will make you do. Much more so than an OLY plan.



Not meant as a slight at her volume, but with <5hrs combined biking & running over the last 3 weeks, I don't think 150+miles week in the saddle and 35+ miles a week running are going to be handled all that well (at least not right away).

If you decide to do this, please do it smartly and carefully!

Best of luck with whichever course you take!


2008-06-05 5:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman training plan for someone not doing an ironman
ohiost90 - 2008-06-05 3:21 PM

I'm going to go against everyone here.  

1. if your body can handle the volume than do the plan. Only you will know if you can handle it.  The volume is what is different with the free plans on BT. Not speed work. 

2. As a beginner, speed work is really not needed. you will get faster running/biking lots as an IM plan will make you do. Much more so than an OLY plan.

 

I somewhat agree, although my recommendation would be to do a half-iron plan rather than the fill iron. In my experience, the extra volume under my belt helped. For my first sprint, I followed one of the beginner sprint plans and felt that my preparation was inadequate. For my second sprint, my goal was to get at least one training swim, bike, and run that was double the distance of the sprint distances, e.g., at least one 1500m swim, at least one  6 mile run, and at least one  25+ mile bike ride. I felt I was better prepared with this training and my sprint tri actually felt easy to do. Your experience may vary, but this is what worked for me.

2008-06-06 10:46 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman training plan for someone not doing an ironman
Thanks for all the advice! It seems like the Ironman plan would not fit very well with where I am at right now.

I think I have decided to make my own plan that would fit better with where I am. I couldn't find any free training plans that seemed to fit. My swim team practices in the summer every Mon-Thur from 8:30-10:00 at night. I think during those days, I will run or bike for about 45 minutes in the morning. I will take Friday, or some day in the weekend off. On the other 2 days, I will do a long swim, bike, or run.

Does that plan seem fine?
2008-06-06 10:52 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman training plan for someone not doing an ironman

On the other 2 days, I will do a long swim, bike, or and run.

Does that plan seem fine?

It seems better. But I would follow the outline of an existing plan to make sure that you build up to the distances/times needed for your races safely.

2008-06-06 11:35 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman training plan for someone not doing an ironman
JohnnyKay - 2008-06-05 4:26 PM
ohiost90 - 2008-06-05 4:21 PM

I'm going to go against everyone here.  

1. if your body can handle the volume than do the plan. Only you will know if you can handle it.  The volume is what is different with the free plans on BT. Not speed work. 

Your bolded segment is important.  Did you check her logs?

I know it is important and hence the reason I bolded the statement.

2008-06-06 12:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman training plan for someone not doing an ironman
ohiost90 - 2008-06-06 12:35 PM
JohnnyKay - 2008-06-05 4:26 PM
ohiost90 - 2008-06-05 4:21 PM

I'm going to go against everyone here.  

1. if your body can handle the volume than do the plan. Only you will know if you can handle it.  The volume is what is different with the free plans on BT. Not speed work. 

Your bolded segment is important.  Did you check her logs?

I know it is important and hence the reason I bolded the statement.

Yeah, but since it's pretty clear from her logs that she's not ready to handle that kind of volume, it pretty much invalidates the rest of your advice (which may be good in a more general sense rather than in this particular instance).



2008-06-06 12:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman training plan for someone not doing an ironman

amyro1234 - 2008-06-06 11:46 AM Thanks for all the advice! It seems like the Ironman plan would not fit very well with where I am at right now. I think I have decided to make my own plan that would fit better with where I am. I couldn't find any free training plans that seemed to fit. My swim team practices in the summer every Mon-Thur from 8:30-10:00 at night. I think during those days, I will run or bike for about 45 minutes in the morning. I will take Friday, or some day in the weekend off. On the other 2 days, I will do a long swim, bike, or run. Does that plan seem fine?

Sounds like a good start.  Take the running easy for awhile--might be better to begin with 30min runs on the swim days and then 45-60min runs on your long day (or even start these at 30min).  Then gradually build onto those--with the "+10% per week" rule-of-thumb a good place to start.

2008-06-06 12:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman training plan for someone not doing an ironman

Go to the library and get this book: Training Plans for Multisport Athletes, by Gale Bernhardt. There are many good, free training plans in there. It got through my first year of triathalon, I'm still using her plans from her second edition.

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