General Discussion Triathlon Talk » TOTW: Recovery - how and why Rss Feed  
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2008-06-09 6:57 AM

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Subject: TOTW: Recovery - how and why

Topic: Recovery and everything related to it. Ask your questions, give your input.  Most of the attention to training is focused upon the workout and not on the aspect that actually gets you stronger ... the recovery.  Discussion includes why, how and what should you do to maximize the benefit of training ... and anything else you can bring to this topic.

Topic Sticky Date Range - 06/09/08 through 06/15/08.

So, you have the topic.. let's see what you can do with it.



2008-06-09 10:21 AM
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Champion
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Subject: RE: TOTW: Recovery - how and why

Very good topic and one that most of us (myself included) take for granted or think we have a handle on.

This weekend at my certification clinic, we had a presentation on Nutritional periodization.  He brought up the difference between Recovery and Post-workout Nutrition.  This might be slightly off of where you want to go...fyi.

In a nutshell, Recovery start BEFORE the workout.  If you have proper recovery nutrition, then you start the workout with a full tank.  This allows you to have post race recovery/nutrition in the critical window.  If you do that, then you can be recovered in 12 - 16 hrs. 

If instead, you start off with a less than full tank, and attempt to implement Recovery nutrition/post race nutrition AFTER the workout, it can take up to 24 hrs to refill your tank.  So many of us are so focused on getting our tanks replenished directly after the workout that we are not paying attention to starting with a full tank. 

I found this to be a "duhh" moment for me.  It's simple on paper...now to implement it.

2008-06-09 10:33 AM
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Subject: RE: TOTW: Recovery - how and why
Follow my logs.  I am a case study in progress.   
2008-06-09 12:26 PM
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Subject: RE: TOTW: Recovery - how and why

ADollar79 - 2008-06-09 11:33 AM Follow my logs.  I am a case study in progress.   

We're not talking about hangover recovery, Dollar ...

Dan:

Good point ... in order to recovery well, you have to start well - otherwise you have to dig yourself out of a metabolic hole.  Hydration follows the same lines.

One way to start well is to take advantage of your metabolic 'window of opportunity' that opens for a short period of time immediately after a work out (10-30 minutes, depending upon who you ask).  It is during this time that the body will accept sugars directly into the muscles glycogen stores and apply protein to repair the muscles you damaged during your training session.

A quick Google search found the following article: http://www.utexas.edu/features/archive/2004/nutrition.html

Which brings up another often overlooked aspect of recovery: ... why? 

One simple answer is that it is not by virtue of exercising that makes you stronger.  Exercise simply breaks down or otherwise stresses muscle fibers.  You get stronger by the reaction you body has to these damaged muscles.

The way it has been explained to me in the past is that your body tends to overcompensate ... in the case of muscle stress, it not only repairs the muscles but "overbuilds" them to guard against future stress.  This overbuilding, however, occurs during rest - not exercise.

This is what is the meaning behind the saying "... rest will only make you stronger."

 

2008-06-09 12:40 PM
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Subject: RE: TOTW: Recovery - how and why
Recovery is complex. Sometimes it's obvious you need one, such as after a big race, and other times, it's not so obvious until your body just shuts down and says.. NO MORE!!!

I am a huge proponant of 'Active recovery'. I think full weeks off following a big event, leads to injuries. Last September 9th, I did Ironman Wisconsin. Exactly two months later I ran the Richmond Marathon. The entire transition between the two events was what I termed.. an active recovery period. There were aches and pains that I had to get through, but in the end, the transition ended up being perfect. Active recovery can be anything from walking, to a easy run / bike / swim.  

My philosophy is as follows. Days off... often. Week off.. very rare. More than a week.. only if it's unavoidable due to injury etc.

Recovery is as important as training in terms of having a successful race. 
 
2008-06-09 12:42 PM
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Subject: RE: TOTW: Recovery - how and why

Recovery is recovery (exercise or alcohol induced).  Many of the same theories are true. 

I think there are two parts to this general topic:

1.  Recovery after a particular workout(s) where you are trying to maximize the 'window' so that you can function efficiently the rest of the week (or day)

2.  Recovery after races in the middle of your season (to which I was offering me as the lab rat).  Many of us in this forum had large "A" races early in the season.  The approach to recovering from a race and resuming intense training is just as important. 



2008-06-09 12:55 PM
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Subject: RE: TOTW: Recovery - how and why
atl_runner - 2008-06-09 1:40 PM

... I am a huge proponant of 'Active recovery'. I think full weeks off following a big event, leads to injuries... 

Funny you say that; the norm I have found among athletes post-IM is injury ... and they have all been relatively 'inactive' between the race to when they started exercising again.

I am, of course, no exception having dealt with the back issues for months after IMFL last year.  Part of me wonders if different muscle groups loose strength/fitness faster than others thereby creating a muscle imbalance that leads to injury?

For instance, did I loose core stength while retaining quad stength during the two months I took off post-IM?  Is that what led to the lower back pain?

I don't know ... but I do know that the core strength training and stretching has made a huge difference.

Speaking of stretching, didn't used to believe in it ... now I am a huge believer.  While it was rare to do in the past, now it is rare that I do not complete each workout with 10 minutes of stretching.  I am still the tightest white-boy out there, just not as tight as I used to be.

Dan (Marvanett) is able the most limber mo' fo' out there ... suppose that is why he can "do the hustle".



Edited by brian 2008-06-09 12:57 PM
2008-06-09 1:03 PM
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Subject: RE: TOTW: Recovery - how and why
Some additional thoughts on what I consider recovery.

1. Professional Massage. Never ever ever ever underestimate the value of a good deep tissue massage. Not the kind that soothes and refreshes you, the kind that hurts you almost as much as a hard training day.

2. Hot Tub. This is debateable and somewhat controversial, but I feel that a good hot tub session can be as beneficial as a masssage. Sure, it's heat, and heat is counter-indicated when it comes to injuries and such, but heat can also be beneficial. It definietly can help loosen up tight muscles.

3. The stick.. like a massage, only different. I like to think of a stick as squeezing out the bad.. like wringing out a wet wash cloth. The deeper (for me) the better.

Foam Rollers: For the hard core. Hands down, the best IT stretch you will ever get. Very painful, but in the hurts so good kind of way.

I'd like to hear what others do. If you have a recovery technique or can expand on anything from above, go for it.
2008-06-09 1:28 PM
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Subject: RE: TOTW: Recovery - how and why

x2 to everything Ron just said. 

I get a solid massage about every 6 weeks now.  I had one on Friday and I am still bruised.  It isn't the light the candles and listen to the sounds of nature type.  

I would add ice baths to the list.  I enjoy those a great deal.  But then again I enjoy the foam roller so I am kinda sick like that.  I have found that the foam roller works by back the best and releases a lot of of upper back tension.  

 For me, I feel a direct correlation to protein intake and recovery.  I need to have a solid couple of meals where I am getting plenty of protein. This seems to allow me to bounce back. 

But let's not forget the simpliest idea

Rest
Ice
Compression
Elevation

 I have gotten much better about this after runs.  After cooling down and some stretching, I like to play on BT log by workout by laying on the floor and putting my legs up on my couch. 

2008-06-09 2:08 PM
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Subject: RE: TOTW: Recovery - how and why

Ice baths are the bomb!  I do 5 bags (~40 lbs) in a tub of cold water that rises just about 1" over my quads + covers the lower back while stretched out.

I try to get the water to mid-40's/low 50's and then sit there for 20 minutes.  The first :90 seconds are "difficult" (you are numb after that, so time thereafter is relative).  I then get out of the cold tub and into a warm shower ... and feel the gunk flush out of my legs.

This is one thing where I can definitely tell the difference the next day.

(Note: thanks to a leaking shower pan that necessitates ripping out the entire shower, we are in the process of remodeling our master bathroom.  I am looking into having an ice machine installed ... Wifey is not that supportive, "When we sell the house, what are we going to tell them?  'Look, you can mix a cocktail in the bathroom.'"

 

2008-06-09 3:00 PM
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Subject: RE: TOTW: Recovery - how and why

Dude you should just get a margarita machine installed also...that is a HUGE selling point!

 

My thoughts on recovery:

1) Recovery is what "makes or breaks" your training and racing. Like Brian mentioned before it isn't the actual workout that makes you stronger but the recovery from that workout. Too little (which we are all very guilty of at one point or another) and your body can't repair itself and adapt physiologically. Likewise too much recovery at the wrong time can take that "knife edge" off of your preparedness for peak events.

2) When we sleep the body secretes HGH which aids in muscle repair and recovery among other things. If you think about it by getting a good nights sleep, working out in the morning, taking a nap and working out again in the afternoon or evening you are effectively "legally doping" since your getting a double dose of HGH.

3) I agree with Ron to a degree about "active recovery". It has been shown that stimulating blood flow too an area will help take out the "trash" and bring in oxengenated blood to repair damage. However, there are times when the body just needs to rest so a day or couple of days off aren't necessarily a bad thing (not to mention the mental health benefits).  Ice Baths haven't been proven (other than anecdotally) to speed recovery or lessen injuries, it would make sense though that the cold temps would inhibit swelling in the muscles. Even if it is nothing more than a placebo, if it makes you feel better then it works.

4) Bottom line is that we could all get more rest, whether at night or a short nap during the day. The training load that you can accept is directly proportional to how quickly and completely you recover. If you continue to pile on more mileage and yardage on already fatigued muscles then you are asking for injury. Listen to your body, it knows when it needs rest and when it can go all out.



2008-06-09 4:50 PM
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Subject: RE: TOTW: Recovery - how and why

Rocket Man - 2008-06-09 4:00 PM 

Ice Baths haven't been proven (other than anecdotally) to speed recovery or lessen injuries, it would make sense though that the cold temps would inhibit swelling in the muscles.

I believe the concept behind the ice bath is that it shrinks the swelling and stems the flow of "bad stuff" that comes from exercise (lactic acid, etc.) while forcing blood to shrink away from the muscles.  (Blood flow is reduced during exposure to cold in an effort to guard the vital organs.)

Once removed from the cold environment, the blood returns back into the muscle groups.  It is from this "rush" that flushes out the junk from the muscles.

...Even if it is nothing more than a placebo, if it makes you feel better then it works.

Sshhhh, you are going to screw up the delusion ...   Seriously, while my sample is N=1 I have to say that it has made a noticable difference in my recovery post-strenuous workouts.  It mkay not alleviate all symptoms but it definitely mitigates them.

2008-06-10 4:38 AM
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Subject: RE: TOTW: Recovery - how and why
I don't know much who supervised the injury prevention and/or recovery of their top athletes. Those doctors and trainers ALWAYS had those guys doing ice baths as part of their regimen. Kind of funny to see the agony on the athletes' faces when they first got in the ice baths...
2008-06-10 7:49 AM
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Subject: RE: TOTW: Recovery - how and why

rhodespedal - 2008-06-10 5:38 AM I don't know much who supervised the injury prevention and/or recovery of their top athletes. Those doctors and trainers ALWAYS had those guys doing ice baths as part of their regimen. Kind of funny to see the agony on the athletes' faces when they first got in the ice baths...

The message was somehow cut when I submitted it. Sorry. Here's what I meant to say... 

I don't know much about this but I did notice when I was in college, both universities I went to had doctors who supervised the injury prevention and/or recovery of their top athletes. Those doctors and trainers ALWAYS had those guys doing ice baths as part of their regimen. Kind of funny to see the agony on the athletes' faces when they first got in the ice baths...

 

2008-06-10 8:52 AM
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Subject: RE: TOTW: Recovery - how and why

I have one word for recovery and that would be SLEEP.  It makes such a difference.  I never feel guilty about sleeping too much when I'm training because I know my body needs it.

2008-06-12 2:01 PM
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Subject: RE: TOTW: Recovery - how and why
I used the foam roller today. I had tried it before, but I really used it effectively this morning. I highly recommend it to.. well, pretty much everyone. It's painful, like I remember it, but it's really unbelievable how well it works out tightness in different muscle groups. I loved what it did for the base of my quads, as well us my middle and upper back tension.


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