Race Pace vs. Training Pace (Page 3)

Well, its ok to disagree, that's how we learn.

I think that Shorter would call that speed - fast twitch activating running - same thing MacMillan calls it - semantics really. Shorter - only American to win a Gold Medal in the marathon. I'll take his advice any day. No one worked harder.

For an experienced runner, I agree with you are saying: higher volume, frequency and consistency. When have I said different. A workout is not a 'quality' workout when it doesn't benefit you, correct. If you are running an easy run at 10' miles, and your 10k pace is 6' a mile, I think you'd be better off doing something that actually promotes recovery like easy cycling or swimming. That's the triathlete in me. The college runner in me had a different philosophy, but at 40, I can't train like that and still stay healthy. That's just reality.

Its definitely important to try stuff in training to see if it will work on race day. I know last year I completely underfueled on the bike and paid for it on the run. Live and learn, they say.

Can you look at my plan.   I am building to a Aug 30 Sprint which will be my 3rd tri this year and ever. 

My primary question is:  Is my recovery week, light enough.  Any other thoughs are appreciated.

(training plan1.jpg)

(training plan2.jpg)

I have a HRM but I feel it is a limiting factor for me. I stoped using it for races because it just slowed me down. I use it for training every now and then but I just dont see the connection between my RPE and HRM. I did a 10K this morning and covered up the HR on my Garmin with tape because of this factor. After race results are. By the way I'm 26.

mile 1- 8:15 HR- 180 felt pretty easy

mile 2- 8:48 HR-188 mod big hill

mile 3-8:12 HR-189 mod but comfortable

mile 4-8:14 HR-194 picked up the pace because was comfortable with the 1st 3 miles

mile 5-8:38 HR-197 tried to hit it hard with about 2-3 min hill incline

mile 6-7:52 HR-197 let it rip bc end of race

mile .2-7:44 pace HR-198 Finished strong.

avg HR-191 total time 51:30

Honestly I felt like I could have pushed myself to go faster, some of the timing here cannot be viewed as slowing down because some miles had some big hills in there. Anyway you can see that my HR was in the high 190's from mile 4 until the end of the race. This is why I cover it up because seeing this alway slows me down. The weird part is that I still feel like I couldhave pushed it, but I am about at MAX HR. I really try and do my long runs at about 10:30. Is my race pace okay with my HR that high but still feeling like I am holding back?

Without reading everything in the thread I'd answer your initial post with the more than obvious "They went too hard on the bike" as my answer.

I've learned the hard way that putting up a really strong bike time without having the overall fitness to do that leads to diminished run times.

When I've hit my bike splits well I've put up what would be considered appropriate run splits.  In shorter races this means low to mid 6's (sprints and olympic) and I rarely ever train at those paces.  My usual training paces are in the low 7's, which means I should be able to comfortably do that in HIM and IM distance events.  But pushing the bike hard in those events are usually my downfall and result in much slower run pacing during the race for me.  But I'm working on that .....

why does seeing the HR slow you down? How do you know your max HR? And if your race pace is 8:16, then long runs can be done as slow as 10:15ish. No need to go slower than that. At 26, I think my AHR was somewhere around 198 or something, so don't worry about a high HR, just run hard.

flyinfree - 2008-07-28 9:03 AM

mikericci - 2008-07-24 4:43 PM

So, I was perusing some logs today of people on this site that did the Boulder Peak this past weekend. I see a fair amount of athlete who ran say 8:xx at the Peak for the 10k, yet during training they go out and run 7:xx - how does this happen? Why do people continually train faster than they race? I see this all the time - and if you are having trouble dialing in your race pace vs. training pace - please post here and we'll see if we can help you out. I think most of it is b/c people train too hard - and then when they get to race day - they crap the bed b/c they are just over done and they left their best race out on a training run.

Anyway - if you need help, post here, we'll see what we can do.

this is ME! Totally! I fold on race day (triathlons) every time so far. Running races I do well. My best half marathon time is 1:39. 7:33 mm My best Triathlon run time is 11 mm My best swim time is 26 min per 1500 my best tri time is 58 min for 1.2 my best century ride is ave speed of 18 mph my best tri time is 15.2 I just got a heart rate monitor for the first time this saturday I have just started loggin on BT a month or so ago I have Marathon on August 31st I have 140.6 on October 25th I'd like to attempt a Boston Qualify in first week fo Feb- Gasparilla run in Tampa. Yesterday I ran 14 in the am, and a 5 mile recovery at night. I'll take any advice I can get. I have been following the BT plan for 140.6, primarily, except when I can hook up with ironmen and do what they do. FF

First word of advice would be to NOT race a marathon 6 weeks before an IM Do a HM and run it hard after a long bike the day before. That will give you a much better training stimulus. Your recovery won't take as long and you'll get a good quality workout out of the HM.

Sounds like you need to do some testing so you can get your HRs lined up:
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=926

This approach works, folks.  I'm the poster-child for the "quality over volume" argument.  My coach has me do primarily z1-z2 work with sporadic bits of z3 (strides, pickups, whatever you want to call them) during some runs.  I have a tendency to get injured pretty easily, so we've been conservative with running.  Still, I train at a 7-7:30 pace in z2.  I did a training run and missed my stand-alone 1/2 mary PR by about a minute.  My last HIM was capped off by a 1/2 mary only 2 minutes off my stand alone PR.  I follow the race plan, don't overdo the bike, keep my HR in check, and the results speak for themselves.  It's not rocket science, it's just a lot of consistency paired with reasonable expectations.

Good thread, Mike!

~B