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2009-01-08 10:34 AM

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Subject: "Beginner" question from...well, not a "beginner"
Major lapse in memory...

It's been well over a year since I raced my last Half Marathon. I've signed up for the MORE marathon in NYC in April and so, being a happy-go-lucky long distance runner, I'm all excited about doing more mileage soon. But all the training plans I looked at only get me up to 8, 9 and 10 miles for my long runs. I know the rule is you rarely ever do the full race distance in training, but I began thinking that might be because doing a full 26.2 is a bad thing, whereas 13.1 miles is not that taxing on the body...

So now I'm questioning EVERYTHING I know to be true (OK, not really). Is it that I'm just looking at "beginner" training programs, or is that really the standard, regardless of race distance? I have a really crummy memory and can't remember what I did for the last half I raced. I feel like 10 miles is too short. It just sounds...wrong. Could a more advanced runner actually do the 13 miles before the race and compete better? Or is it wiser to stick to the 10 mile limit and just focus on (ugh) interval training?

Help? Advice? Derisive admonishment?

P.S. I did the Philly marathon in November, so it's not even that I don't think I can't do the distance...I know I can. I'm just antsy about only doing 10 miles...


2009-01-08 10:44 AM
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2009-01-08 10:45 AM
in reply to: #1894836

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Subject: RE: "Beginner" question from...well, not a "beginner"

Is that the only thing you are training for?

2009-01-08 10:52 AM
in reply to: #1894836

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Subject: RE: "Beginner" question from...well, not a "beginner"

I use Hal Higdon's training plans with a lot of success. The half marathon training goes up to 12 miles on the intermediate plan.  check out the advanced plan which may go further...

www.halhigdon.com



Edited by Bronwyn1968 2009-01-08 10:53 AM
2009-01-08 10:54 AM
in reply to: #1894836

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Subject: RE: "Beginner" question from...well, not a "beginner"

Pfitzinger-Douglas' Half Marathon plan, the mid-mileage (50mpw max) one, called for a long run of 15. Followed by a mid-week run of 10.

Depends on your goals. If you have any time goals at all for the half marathon, I'd recommend something more than a "beginner" plan.



Edited by the bear 2009-01-08 10:56 AM
2009-01-08 10:54 AM
in reply to: #1894836

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Subject: RE: "Beginner" question from...well, not a "beginner"
I don't even know what it is that you're asking.


2009-01-08 10:57 AM
in reply to: #1894882

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Subject: RE: "Beginner" question from...well, not a "beginner"
JorgeM - 2009-01-08 11:45 AM

Is that the only thing you are training for?



[Subtext: You lazy such-and-such.] lol.

Actually, yeah, it sorta is the only thing I'm officially training for right now. I haven't looked at any specific tri races for 2009, except a few sprints in June. I tend not to do the longer tri races here until a little past spring since I don't own a wetsuit ($$$$) and that's when it starts being feasible to really do them without one...

I am more or less following the BT Olympic training program to keep up on my swimming (oh yes, and your winter cycling program, since I'm doing a century in June). So I'm doing the other two sports, too, but so far only signed up for the half mary...That'll change as the weather warms up, though. Promise.
2009-01-08 11:02 AM
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Subject: RE: "Beginner" question from...well, not a "beginner"

My best 1/2 mary. time came right smack dab in the middle of my marathon training cycle for Boston.  That 13.1 weekend was the shortest weekend run I did basically!

If you are used to long training, then there is no reason not to overdistance a 1/2 in my opinion.

2009-01-08 11:09 AM
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Subject: RE: "Beginner" question from...well, not a "beginner"

I could be wrong, but maybe Jorge asked that so he'd know how much other training load you're taking on?  Just a thought.

Anyway, you can find lots of training plans that take you up to or nearer to 13 miles.  I like Hal Higdon and did the intermediate plan for Philly Half and had my best race yet.  You will be just fine either way, I think.  I struggle with Hal Higdon only in that he always starts small. As though you start each plan with very little mileage experience.  So, even the intermediate plans starts with your long run being like 4 miles.  You might want to up that a bit.

Other thought is the runningworld.com smart coach training plan.  Look at the tool section on their web site.  They will spit out a training plan based on your current mileage, goal race, and timeline.  Although they can be a bit stringy on the long runs too.

2009-01-08 11:12 AM
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Subject: RE: "Beginner" question from...well, not a "beginner"
Daremo - 2009-01-08 9:02 AM

My best 1/2 mary. time came right smack dab in the middle of my marathon training cycle for Boston.  That 13.1 weekend was the shortest weekend run I did basically!

If you are used to long training, then there is no reason not to overdistance a 1/2 in my opinion.



X2...you've run a half mary previously...if you were training up to that distance for the first time, stopping at 10-12 miles would be fine (my wife got through her first HM last year with flying colors exactly that way), but you aren't--as you say--a "beginner."
2009-01-08 11:12 AM
in reply to: #1894951

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Subject: RE: "Beginner" question from...well, not a "beginner"
BikerGrrrl - 2009-01-08 12:09 PM

I could be wrong, but maybe Jorge asked that so he'd know how much other training load you're taking on?  Just a thought.



(si, si, was just kidding around, I know Jorge wasn't calling me lazy).

Thanks for the tip, I'll check out RunningWorld...sounds like I need something more than a one-size-fits-all plan...I like the idea of it basing it on my current mileage and such!

Edited by swishyskirt 2009-01-08 11:12 AM


2009-01-08 12:02 PM
in reply to: #1894836

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Subject: RE: "Beginner" question from...well, not a "beginner"

I'm doing a 1/2 in March and my coach says my longest run will be 15.  I used to run marathons (in my old life) and I think my longest run for those were about 24.  I thing the 1/2 and the full are different animals.

Maybe the plans you are looking at are beginner?



Edited by Lisa B 2009-01-08 12:03 PM
2009-01-08 12:16 PM
in reply to: #1894836

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Subject: RE: "Beginner" question from...well, not a "beginner"
Hmmm. So what's the advantage of doing a longer-than-race distance training vs. interval training? Do they accomplish completely different goals? Or are they not mutually exclusive and should my training include both?

(BTW, last half race I did in 1:47, but that was flat ol' Philly...this time I'm doing hilly ol' Central Park...so I want to do as good as, or better [!] than that time).
2009-01-08 12:18 PM
in reply to: #1894914

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Subject: RE: "Beginner" question from...well, not a "beginner"
swishyskirt - 2009-01-08 10:57 AM
JorgeM - 2009-01-08 11:45 AM

Is that the only thing you are training for?

[Subtext: You lazy such-and-such.] lol. Actually, yeah, it sorta is the only thing I'm officially training for right now. I haven't looked at any specific tri races for 2009, except a few sprints in June. I tend not to do the longer tri races here until a little past spring since I don't own a wetsuit ($$$$) and that's when it starts being feasible to really do them without one... I am more or less following the BT Olympic training program to keep up on my swimming (oh yes, and your winter cycling program, since I'm doing a century in June). So I'm doing the other two sports, too, but so far only signed up for the half mary...That'll change as the weather warms up, though. Promise.

well yes I know you are a lazy azz! (j/k)

I was asking more along the lines like if you have some other goals for the year like racing a HIM, do a marathon, focus on Olys, whatever, then I could give you a better suggestion as to how to tackle this half AND fit the training into the big scheme of your goals... also given that you have ran a mary already *I* wouldnt limit your long runs for the half at all, the speciic goal pace runs, yes, but you could run longer than 13.1 miles for sure.

At the end of the day you have to take into account all what you plan to do for 2009 and how one things falls into the place or affects the others

2009-01-08 1:06 PM
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Subject: RE: "Beginner" question from...well, not a "beginner"
Lisa B - 2009-01-08 1:02 PM

I'm doing a 1/2 in March and my coach says my longest run will be 15.  I used to run marathons (in my old life) and I think my longest run for those were about 24.  I thing the 1/2 and the full are different animals.

Maybe the plans you are looking at are beginner?

They are, but the principles of training for them are the same.

The difference is in running a good half you've gotta be able to seriously HTFU to get the best time because you should be running that almost at your breaking point (for HR weenies, that is right at your LT).  While you will physiologically be able to do it, psychologically it is a whole different story.  Most people have a really hard time running that hard for that long.

Key workouts are weekend long run, mid-week medium-long and a 20 - 45 minute tempo session (which will be at the 1/2 pace you will be running).  Listen to Bear and check out Pfitzinger's plans ......

2009-01-08 2:16 PM
in reply to: #1894836

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Subject: RE: "Beginner" question from...well, not a "beginner"

I've you've been running a while, and you've already done a half successfully, and you'd like to boost performance, then go ahead and go longer. I typically peak at 14-15. (Not that I'm winning any races or setting any land speed records or anything, but...)



2009-01-08 2:24 PM
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Subject: RE: "Beginner" question from...well, not a "beginner"

swishyskirt - 2009-01-08 12:16 PM Hmmm. So what's the advantage of doing a longer-than-race distance training vs. interval training? Do they accomplish completely different goals? Or are they not mutually exclusive and should my training include both? (BTW, last half race I did in 1:47, but that was flat ol' Philly...this time I'm doing hilly ol' Central Park...so I want to do as good as, or better [!] than that time).

No reason (other than injury potentialCry) to not include both, plus tempo runs. The P-D plans have all three...

Here, $5 + shipping for a good used copy:

http://product.half.ebay.com/Road-Racing-for-Serious-Runners_W0QQprZ753070QQtgZinfo

2009-01-08 2:29 PM
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Subject: RE: "Beginner" question from...well, not a "beginner"

Daremo - 2009-01-08 1:06 PM  Listen to Bear and check out Pfitzinger's plans ......

I am diametrically opposed to this.  Not Pfitzinger's plans, but the listening to Bear part.



Edited by jdwright56 2009-01-08 2:30 PM
2009-01-08 2:31 PM
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Subject: RE: "Beginner" question from...well, not a "beginner"
jdwright56 - 2009-01-08 2:29 PM

Daremo - 2009-01-08 1:06 PM  Listen to Bear and check out Pfitzinger's plans ......

I am diametrically opposed to this.  Not Pfitzinger's plans, but the listening to Bear part.

Ah, your race results reflect that. Rick's results reflect that he does listen (or listened to me at least once, regarding P-D).



Edited by the bear 2009-01-08 2:39 PM
2009-01-08 2:36 PM
in reply to: #1894836

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Subject: RE: "Beginner" question from...well, not a "beginner"
What, the Purists vs. Jerks thread ends, and you start in on this one? Good God.



(ETA thanks, totally checking out this book!)

Edited by swishyskirt 2009-01-08 2:38 PM
2009-01-08 2:38 PM
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Subject: RE: "Beginner" question from...well, not a "beginner"

swishyskirt - 2009-01-08 2:36 PM What, the Purists vs. Jerks thread ends, and you start in on this one? Good God.

Huh! See if I help you again!

Cool

P v J is still going, three pages since I posted last...



2009-01-08 3:38 PM
in reply to: #1894836

Runner
Subject: RE: "Beginner" question from...well, not a "beginner"

Never read Pfitzinger.

Let me guess, the advice is something along the lines of:

Run lots, the more the better.  Most of it should be easy, but some of it should be harder.

 I am the Amazing Carnac.

2009-01-08 3:41 PM
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Subject: RE: "Beginner" question from...well, not a "beginner"
Scout7 - 2009-01-08 4:38 PM

Never read Pfitzinger.

Let me guess, the advice is something along the lines of:

Run lots, the more the better.  Most of it should be easy, but some of it should be harder.

 I am the Amazing Carnac.

And you're wrong there my friend ....... at least partially since they don't say that ......



Edited by Daremo 2009-01-08 3:41 PM
2009-01-08 3:49 PM
in reply to: #1895761

Runner
Subject: RE: "Beginner" question from...well, not a "beginner"
Daremo - 2009-01-08 4:41 PM
Scout7 - 2009-01-08 4:38 PM

Never read Pfitzinger.

Let me guess, the advice is something along the lines of:

Run lots, the more the better.  Most of it should be easy, but some of it should be harder.

 I am the Amazing Carnac.

And you're wrong there my friend ....... at least partially since they don't say that ......

They don't?  So they tell you to run most of the runs hard?

Or they just don't say "easy"?  What do they call it, then?  Probably something meaningless like "aerobic".

2009-01-08 6:24 PM
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Subject: RE: "Beginner" question from...well, not a "beginner"

No, their plans are pretty well balanced.  Always some sort of intensity in the week between tempo, strides and later intervals.  Day of harder stuff, then a recovery or lighter day, then medium and such.  Not the MAF approach.

Very scientific.  Not really your thing.

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