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I think I suck at swimming...or maybe I'm not that terrible
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| General Discussion | Triathlon Talk » I think I suck at swimming...or maybe I'm not that terrible | Rss Feed  |
 2009-05-01 3:17 PM |
Veteran  199   The Ocean State |  Subject: I think I suck at swimming...or maybe I'm not that terribleBackground: Newbie with one sprint under my belt, recently coming off injury and have not been in the pool until the last couple of weeks |
| 2009-05-01 3:27 PM in reply to: #2124503 |
| Subject: RE: I think I suck at swimming...or maybe I'm not that terrible sma777 - 2009-05-01 4:17 PM Background: Newbie with one sprint under my belt, recently coming off injury and have not been in the pool until the last couple of weeks I'd argue that bike and run DO sometimes require someone else to take a look, maybe run a bit more so than the bike (assuming you've had a proper bike fit, which SHOULD help with some things, but not all). Not quite as much as swimming, but there are things to look at there, that you may not be able to self-correct because you don't know you're doing it wrong. If you can take a swim lesson or two, or get a coach-type to watch you, that'd be ideal. Asking a random person at the pool doesn't guarantee that they'll know any more than you do. But you could upload video on here and get some decent feedback, for a start. There are many folks here who can spot poor technique and give you good feedback. Just make sure the quality of the video is good and that it's taken from different angles, and close enough to see what's going on in the water (your pull, etc). Sometimes correcting a small technique flaw means making huge speed gains. So it's definite worth having someone qualified look at your stroke - and not just once, but periodically if not regularly. Edited by wurkit_gurl 2009-05-01 3:27 PM |
| 2009-05-01 3:33 PM in reply to: #2124503 |
Pro 4343 Olney, MD | Subject: RE: I think I suck at swimming...or maybe I'm not that terrible sma777 - 2009-05-01 4:17 PM Background: Newbie with one sprint under my belt, recently coming off injury and have not been in the pool until the last couple of weeks You want to ask someone who's opinion you would value. The worse your form, the more energy you are expending to go the distance. Some simple changes can make a huge different in speed and effort required. Try asking at the pool if they have coaches/instructors that can do a few private lessons with you. It's probably not that expensive and could make a huge difference. |
| 2009-05-01 3:38 PM in reply to: #2124503 |
| Member 195 Akron, OH | Subject: RE: I think I suck at swimming...or maybe I'm not that terrible If you swim 1ooo yds/mtrs, what's your average time per 100?? I've read that if you're under 1:45 per 100, your form, although could always be improved, isn't too bad. If you're over 2:00 per hundred, you need to work on form and technique above all else. Does anyone else believe this holds true? What do the swim masters think?? |
| 2009-05-01 3:47 PM in reply to: #2124555 |
Elite 4048 Gilbert, Az. | Subject: RE: I think I suck at swimming...or maybe I'm not that terrible dscottmd - 2009-05-01 1:38 PM If you swim 1ooo yds/mtrs, what's your average time per 100?? I've read that if you're under 1:45 per 100, your form, although could always be improved, isn't too bad. If you're over 2:00 per hundred, you need to work on form and technique above all else. Does anyone else believe this holds true? What do the swim masters think?? To some extent, sure. The "2:00/100" is kind of the "magic" number, since that seems to be where the breaking point is between fitness and technique. It's not 100%, when I got back in the pool after a 20 yr break, I was struggling with being able to swim more than 400 at a time, and my 100 times were abysmal. To the OP: If you've never taken a class, then yes, I would bet there are some stroke flaws that are holding you back. The most common ones that I see are: 1. Arms crossing over midline on entry, lack of reach 2. Rolling excessively (or picking head up) to breathe 3. Wide/non existent kick 4. Straight pull underwater, no catch. (And this is DEATH, it costs so much energy. When you hear people talking about "getting it" and feeling like they were "zooming" in the water "effortlessly", they've developed a good catch.) I would definitely recommend finding a swimming instructor in your area and taking a few lessons. If you can find someone that is a competitive stroke instructor, all the better. They are used to spotting flaws and fixing them even in "good" swimmers. And, if you can manage to get a video, that would help, but an underwater video would be much much better. If this is possible, shots from the side, front and back would be most helpful. There are some stroke flaws that can be seen above water, but it's a lot easier to tell/fix/explain with a good underwater video. John |
| 2009-05-01 3:51 PM in reply to: #2124580 |
| Subject: RE: I think I suck at swimming...or maybe I'm not that terrible tkd.teacher - 2009-05-01 4:47 PM And, if you can manage to get a video, that would help, but an underwater video would be much much better. If this is possible, shots from the side, front and back would be most helpful. There are some stroke flaws that can be seen above water, but it's a lot easier to tell/fix/explain with a good underwater video. John Of course - that usually costs a bit, though. There was a clinic nearby recently where they offered this, but it was expensive. I guess it depends on how much you want/have to spend. |
| 2009-05-01 3:56 PM in reply to: #2124591 |
Elite 4048 Gilbert, Az. | Subject: RE: I think I suck at swimming...or maybe I'm not that terrible wurkit_gurl - 2009-05-01 1:51 PM tkd.teacher - 2009-05-01 4:47 PM And, if you can manage to get a video, that would help, but an underwater video would be much much better. If this is possible, shots from the side, front and back would be most helpful. There are some stroke flaws that can be seen above water, but it's a lot easier to tell/fix/explain with a good underwater video. John Of course - that usually costs a bit, though. There was a clinic nearby recently where they offered this, but it was expensive. I guess it depends on how much you want/have to spend. Yeah, unfortunately. I'm saving to try to buy a camera and case so I can take underwater vids as part of my coaching service. They are just some serious bank, like $7-800 just for a case... John |
| 2009-05-01 4:08 PM in reply to: #2124503 |
Pro 4189 Pittsburgh, my heart is in Glasgow | Subject: RE: I think I suck at swimming...or maybe I'm not that terrible Well, since I have nothing to do for the next three months aside from sit here and wait for my hip to heal, if you (or anyone else for that matter) wants to post a video, I can try to diagnose and coach the best I can from here. If you can get an underwater shot (from an underwater room or whatever) that's awesome, but deck shots are good too. I'm a USA Certified Swim coach and I've done both the youth swimming and masters swimming thing (and I'm one of those freaks who loves the pool). Edited by phoenixazul 2009-05-01 4:08 PM |
| 2009-05-01 4:30 PM in reply to: #2124580 |
Veteran 267 | Subject: RE: I think I suck at swimming...or maybe I'm not that terrible tkd.teacher - 2009-05-01 3:47 PM 4. Straight pull underwater, no catch. (And this is DEATH, it costs so much energy. When you hear people talking about "getting it" and feeling like they were "zooming" in the water "effortlessly", they've developed a good catch.) John Can you please expand slightly on this. What is a straight pull underwater, no catch? What is ideal instead of? thanks. Randy |
| 2009-05-01 4:40 PM in reply to: #2124681 |
Elite 4048 Gilbert, Az. | Subject: RE: I think I suck at swimming...or maybe I'm not that terrible randym95 - 2009-05-01 2:30 PM tkd.teacher - 2009-05-01 3:47 PM 4. Straight pull underwater, no catch. (And this is DEATH, it costs so much energy. When you hear people talking about "getting it" and feeling like they were "zooming" in the water "effortlessly", they've developed a good catch.) John Can you please expand slightly on this. What is a straight pull underwater, no catch? What is ideal instead of? thanks. Randy Raise your hand over your head, straight arm. Now without bending it, bring it all the way forward and down until it is at your side. That is what a straight arm pull looks like. A straight arm pull is inefficient and costs extra energy because you have to take more strokes per distance swum than someone with a good catch. Why it's bad - The palm surface of the hand, the fingers and the forearm are the propulsive parts of the arm for a swimming stroke. You want to get them vertical to the bottom of the pool (facing the wall behind you) as early as possible. With a straight arm pull, that doesn't really happen until about 40-50% of the way through the stroke. (It also tends to push your upper body "up" a bit which messes with body alignment). Now with a high elbow and early catch, you get your arm to the desired position pretty much just before the top of your head (or at least I tend to). This gives you another foot or so of quality pull per stroke with the hand/forearm in the vertical position that you don't have in a straight arm stroke. John Edited by tkd.teacher 2009-05-01 4:41 PM |
| 2009-05-01 4:52 PM in reply to: #2124602 |
Champion 19812  MA | Subject: RE: I think I suck at swimming...or maybe I'm not that terrible tkd.teacher - 2009-05-01 4:56 PM wurkit_gurl - 2009-05-01 1:51 PM tkd.teacher - 2009-05-01 4:47 PM And, if you can manage to get a video, that would help, but an underwater video would be much much better. If this is possible, shots from the side, front and back would be most helpful. There are some stroke flaws that can be seen above water, but it's a lot easier to tell/fix/explain with a good underwater video. John Of course - that usually costs a bit, though. There was a clinic nearby recently where they offered this, but it was expensive. I guess it depends on how much you want/have to spend. Yeah, unfortunately. I'm saving to try to buy a camera and case so I can take underwater vids as part of my coaching service. They are just some serious bank, like $7-800 just for a case... John My first swim coach used a regular video camera and had an attachment that looked like PVC pipe with something on the end...that she used to tape us. You might look into other options that are less expensive unless I misread what you meant. Second swim coach I used has something else but similar but not nearly as long but again he added it to a regular video camera. |
| 2009-05-01 4:55 PM in reply to: #2124725 |
Elite 4048 Gilbert, Az. | Subject: RE: I think I suck at swimming...or maybe I'm not that terrible KathyG - 2009-05-01 2:52 PM tkd.teacher - 2009-05-01 4:56 PM wurkit_gurl - 2009-05-01 1:51 PM tkd.teacher - 2009-05-01 4:47 PM And, if you can manage to get a video, that would help, but an underwater video would be much much better. If this is possible, shots from the side, front and back would be most helpful. There are some stroke flaws that can be seen above water, but it's a lot easier to tell/fix/explain with a good underwater video. John Of course - that usually costs a bit, though. There was a clinic nearby recently where they offered this, but it was expensive. I guess it depends on how much you want/have to spend. Yeah, unfortunately. I'm saving to try to buy a camera and case so I can take underwater vids as part of my coaching service. They are just some serious bank, like $7-800 just for a case... John My first swim coach used a regular video camera and had an attachment that looked like PVC pipe with something on the end...that she used to tape us. You might look into other options that are less expensive unless I misread what you meant. Second swim coach I used has something else but similar but not nearly as long but again he added it to a regular video camera. Yeah, I've seen those. I just haven't been as impressed with the vid quality, it always seems to be a bit grainy and fuzzy. But you're right, I should take another look it might be a good interim option. John |
| 2009-05-01 4:59 PM in reply to: #2124503 |
| , Arizona | Subject: RE: I think I suck at swimming...or maybe I'm not that terrible sma777, go to masters. I've never had a formal lesson in my life, I never learned how to do any of the strokes when I was younger, and I couldn't even put my head under the water when I began masters last month. The purpose of the class is to improve your technique and fitness, it's a catch 22 to say you aren't confident enough in your ability to go... like people saying "I'll go to the gym as soon as I get in shape". Sure they had a chuckle at my expense when I showed them what I could do the first time, but all the coaches have been extremely helpful and supportive. They were actually happy that I didn't wait, it's much easier to start to develop good technique from the get-go rather than break bad habits that are ingrained. Just go. They will answer all the questions you listed and more. |
| 2009-05-01 5:42 PM in reply to: #2124503 |
Veteran 199 The Ocean State | Subject: RE: I think I suck at swimming...or maybe I'm not that terrible I'll start by finding out if there are any coach/instructors available at the pool and when. I'm all for taking a couple of lessons to point out my flaws. As far as speed goes I'm getting aroung 2:05 per hundred (based on 400m set) which is touch turns not flips. So I don't think I'm too far off but with some corrections I'll probably gain some speed and efficiency. |
| 2009-05-01 6:05 PM in reply to: #2124503 |
Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: I think I suck at swimming...or maybe I'm not that terrible Maybe post in your state forum for swim coach recommendations. At local pools swim instruction can vary from terrific to pretty bad. Before investing in lessons make sure the instructor is good. Also if you have a lesson and feel it isn't helpful consider switching to different instruction. I'm on my 5th swim coach since '05 and finally have someone who is helping me improve. I have wasted years and lots of money with coaches that haven't helped. I wish I had been a bit more choosy when selecting my previous coaches. What I like about my coach is she tries to get how you think about swimming and work within your ideas. She tries something and if I don't get it, tries something else until I can start making the improvement she is hoping for. Previous coaches would repeat the same thing over and over. I understood the English part of what they were saying but it didn't click in my head enough to make the change in my body. The two coaches that have helped me this winter are both in their 50s, have kids, and have been coaching for years and are used to working with a wide variety of people and have that ability to explain things multiple ways. Typically if you swim slower than around 1:40/100 yds you are dropping your elbow even though it may feel like you aren't. I drop one elbow as I lock that elbow balancing when I breath to the other side. I know I do it, try very hard to fix it and not do it but breaking habits are tough. I have a few drills and focus points that make me get it better. When I don't drop that elbow I can swim 2-3 seconds per 50 faster and 4-5 seconds per hundred and that is probably making a tiny adjustment and still have a long way to go to have good form. |
| 2009-05-01 6:51 PM in reply to: #2124602 |
Pro 4343 Olney, MD | Subject: RE: I think I suck at swimming...or maybe I'm not that terrible tkd.teacher - 2009-05-01 4:56 PM wurkit_gurl - 2009-05-01 1:51 PM tkd.teacher - 2009-05-01 4:47 PM And, if you can manage to get a video, that would help, but an underwater video would be much much better. If this is possible, shots from the side, front and back would be most helpful. There are some stroke flaws that can be seen above water, but it's a lot easier to tell/fix/explain with a good underwater video. John Of course - that usually costs a bit, though. There was a clinic nearby recently where they offered this, but it was expensive. I guess it depends on how much you want/have to spend. Yeah, unfortunately. I'm saving to try to buy a camera and case so I can take underwater vids as part of my coaching service. They are just some serious bank, like $7-800 just for a case... John I had a video done end of March as part of a clinic. They had a lens on a down periscope that was hooked up to a normal video camera. Oops, posted this before I saw it was already mentioned. Edited by MDHillSlug 2009-05-01 6:53 PM |
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