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An Old School Swimming trick.
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 2009-06-12 12:19 PM |
Extreme Veteran  682    Canton, MI. via Detroit |  Subject: An Old School Swimming trick.This is an "Old School" swimming trick that I would like to share with you all. It's old because it was taught to me back in 1975 by a swimming coach that was already old back then. Try swimming incorrectly on purpose for a few hundred yards. During the pull part of your stroke, cross your arm too far to the inside. (This will feel very awkward and slow you down) Then for the next few hundred yards take wide outside strokes. Chances are that you have been swimming with the exact same perfect stroke lap after lap after lap. If you do this right (swim wrong for a while) Your arm muscles will feel unusually sore the next day. This is a good thing. A Very good thing. |
| 2009-06-12 12:23 PM in reply to: #2213618 |
Extreme Veteran 453 Long Island, NY | Subject: RE: An Old School Swimming trick. What is the benefit that you get from doing it? |
| 2009-06-12 12:32 PM in reply to: #2213618 |
Elite 3395  Raleigh | Subject: RE: An Old School Swimming trick. I would imagine it builds up the arm, back and shoulder muscles around the ones you use when you swim correctly. As a result, your arms and back are stronger and give better support to your dominant muscles. That is a guess. |
| 2009-06-12 12:32 PM in reply to: #2213618 |
Extreme Veteran 682 Canton, MI. via Detroit | Subject: RE: An Old School Swimming trick. I should add... Only do this in training NOT in a race because it is slower. The benefit is that you will "cross train" the sweet spot of your stroke working on both sides of it. |
| 2009-06-12 12:34 PM in reply to: #2213646 |
Extreme Veteran 682 Canton, MI. via Detroit | Subject: RE: An Old School Swimming trick. DougRob - 2009-06-12 12:32 PM I would imagine it builds up the arm, back and shoulder muscles around the ones you use when you swim correctly. As a result, your arms and back are stronger and give better support to your dominant muscles. That is a guess. Yes. Very well put. |
| 2009-06-12 12:36 PM in reply to: #2213650 |
Elite 4048 Gilbert, Az. | Subject: RE: An Old School Swimming trick. Detroit Dan - 2009-06-12 10:32 AM I should add... Only do this in training NOT in a race because it is slower. The benefit is that you will "cross train" the sweet spot of your stroke working on both sides of it. Uhm..ok. Dubious concept at best. How do you prevent injury to the shoulder while swimming with such exaggerated inside and outside motions? John |
| 2009-06-12 12:42 PM in reply to: #2213661 |
Extreme Veteran 682 Canton, MI. via Detroit | Subject: RE: An Old School Swimming trick. tkd.teacher - 2009-06-12 12:36 PM Detroit Dan - 2009-06-12 10:32 AM I should add... Only do this in training NOT in a race because it is slower. The benefit is that you will "cross train" the sweet spot of your stroke working on both sides of it. Uhm..ok. Dubious concept at best. How do you prevent injury to the shoulder while swimming with such exaggerated inside and outside motions? John You won't injure yourself and you will thank me in the morning when you can feel the muscles that got used. |
| 2009-06-12 12:49 PM in reply to: #2213661 |
Master 1420 Reston, VA | Subject: RE: An Old School Swimming trick. tkd.teacher - 2009-06-12 1:36 PM Detroit Dan - 2009-06-12 10:32 AM I should add... Only do this in training NOT in a race because it is slower. The benefit is that you will "cross train" the sweet spot of your stroke working on both sides of it. Uhm..ok. Dubious concept at best. How do you prevent injury to the shoulder while swimming with such exaggerated inside and outside motions? John Good question. |
| 2009-06-12 12:56 PM in reply to: #2213618 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: An Old School Swimming trick. Sometimes there are a reason things are left behind in the "Old School". |
| 2009-06-12 1:01 PM in reply to: #2213684 |
Elite 4048 Gilbert, Az. | Subject: RE: An Old School Swimming trick. Detroit Dan - 2009-06-12 10:42 AM tkd.teacher - 2009-06-12 12:36 PM Detroit Dan - 2009-06-12 10:32 AM I should add... Only do this in training NOT in a race because it is slower. The benefit is that you will "cross train" the sweet spot of your stroke working on both sides of it. Uhm..ok. Dubious concept at best. How do you prevent injury to the shoulder while swimming with such exaggerated inside and outside motions? John You won't injure yourself and you will thank me in the morning when you can feel the muscles that got used. You're putting your shoulder at a very awkward angle, and then putting it under repeated load stress. The shoulder is very delicate joint as it is. If I want to work the anterior deltoid (shoulder muscle), I'll do free and fly. If I want to work the posterior head, I'll do backstroke. Plus, when you increase the angle of the joint, you reduce the effective length of the stroke, so you are getting minimal work out of the muscle over a limited range anyway. The primary motivating muscle in swimming is the lats, so why would I want to swim with poor form to exercise an ancillary muscle that doesn't contribute much to the stroke? John |
| 2009-06-12 1:15 PM in reply to: #2213741 |
Extreme Veteran 453 Long Island, NY | Subject: RE: An Old School Swimming trick. tkd.teacher - 2009-06-12 1:01 PM Detroit Dan - 2009-06-12 10:42 AM tkd.teacher - 2009-06-12 12:36 PM Detroit Dan - 2009-06-12 10:32 AM I should add... Only do this in training NOT in a race because it is slower. The benefit is that you will "cross train" the sweet spot of your stroke working on both sides of it. Uhm..ok. Dubious concept at best. How do you prevent injury to the shoulder while swimming with such exaggerated inside and outside motions? John You won't injure yourself and you will thank me in the morning when you can feel the muscles that got used. You're putting your shoulder at a very awkward angle, and then putting it under repeated load stress. The shoulder is very delicate joint as it is. If I want to work the anterior deltoid (shoulder muscle), I'll do free and fly. If I want to work the posterior head, I'll do backstroke. Plus, when you increase the angle of the joint, you reduce the effective length of the stroke, so you are getting minimal work out of the muscle over a limited range anyway. The primary motivating muscle in swimming is the lats, so why would I want to swim with poor form to exercise an ancillary muscle that doesn't contribute much to the stroke? John X2 |
| 2009-06-12 1:24 PM in reply to: #2213796 |
Extreme Veteran 614 | Subject: RE: An Old School Swimming trick. elbi999 - 2009-06-12 2:15 PM tkd.teacher - 2009-06-12 1:01 PM Detroit Dan - 2009-06-12 10:42 AM tkd.teacher - 2009-06-12 12:36 PM Detroit Dan - 2009-06-12 10:32 AM I should add... Only do this in training NOT in a race because it is slower. The benefit is that you will "cross train" the sweet spot of your stroke working on both sides of it. Uhm..ok. Dubious concept at best. How do you prevent injury to the shoulder while swimming with such exaggerated inside and outside motions? John You won't injure yourself and you will thank me in the morning when you can feel the muscles that got used. You're putting your shoulder at a very awkward angle, and then putting it under repeated load stress. The shoulder is very delicate joint as it is. If I want to work the anterior deltoid (shoulder muscle), I'll do free and fly. If I want to work the posterior head, I'll do backstroke. Plus, when you increase the angle of the joint, you reduce the effective length of the stroke, so you are getting minimal work out of the muscle over a limited range anyway. The primary motivating muscle in swimming is the lats, so why would I want to swim with poor form to exercise an ancillary muscle that doesn't contribute much to the stroke? John X2 x3 - I'm not seeing why I'd want to purposely swim "incorrectly" to strengthen muscles which aren't being used if I'm swimming "correctly" anyway? |
| 2009-06-12 1:29 PM in reply to: #2213726 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: An Old School Swimming trick. JohnnyKay - 2009-06-12 12:56 PM Sometimes there are a reason things are left behind in the "Old School". x2. I see no benefit whatsoever by doing this and i am confused why having sore muscles is a diserable outcome? Would you run with poor form to make your legs feel more tired?  |
| 2009-06-12 1:54 PM in reply to: #2213847 |
Extreme Veteran 682 Canton, MI. via Detroit | Subject: RE: An Old School Swimming trick. bryancd - 2009-06-12 1:29 PM JohnnyKay - 2009-06-12 12:56 PM Sometimes there are a reason things are left behind in the "Old School". x2. I see no benefit whatsoever by doing this and i am confused why having sore muscles is a diserable outcome? Would you run with poor form to make your legs feel more tired? Tough crowd in here... A sore muscle is not a desirable outcome. It is however a result of working a muscle in a way that it is not used to. If you work this technique in slowly and don't over exadurate the inside and outside strokes, you won't feel a thing. You will be using the same muscles that are used during freestyle stroke, just in a slightly different position than your normal stroke. I think the "New School" term is muscle confusion. |
| 2009-06-12 2:00 PM in reply to: #2213618 |
Master 1853 syracuse | Subject: RE: An Old School Swimming trick. whenever I read posts like this, I click on "profile," "logs"--nothing in your case. than "races." nothing again. i'll try pretty much anything, as long as when I look at "logs" and/or "races" and think, "wow." so far you got a couple guys that have the "wow" effect doubting your advice--- hard for me to follow....but whatever works for you is cool..... |
| 2009-06-12 2:04 PM in reply to: #2213618 |
| Tyler, | Subject: RE: An Old School Swimming trick. this post is one that makes you go, "really now". |
| 2009-06-12 2:06 PM in reply to: #2213945 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: An Old School Swimming trick. Detroit Dan - 2009-06-12 2:54 PM bryancd - 2009-06-12 1:29 PM JohnnyKay - 2009-06-12 12:56 PM Sometimes there are a reason things are left behind in the "Old School". x2. I see no benefit whatsoever by doing this and i am confused why having sore muscles is a diserable outcome? Would you run with poor form to make your legs feel more tired? Tough crowd in here... A sore muscle is not a desirable outcome. It is however a result of working a muscle in a way that it is not used to. If you work this technique in slowly and don't over exadurate the inside and outside strokes, you won't feel a thing. You will be using the same muscles that are used during freestyle stroke, just in a slightly different position than your normal stroke. I think the "New School" term is muscle confusion. And what exactly will this do for my normal stroke? |
| 2009-06-12 2:06 PM in reply to: #2213945 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: An Old School Swimming trick. Detroit Dan - 2009-06-12 1:54 PM bryancd - 2009-06-12 1:29 PM JohnnyKay - 2009-06-12 12:56 PM Sometimes there are a reason things are left behind in the "Old School". x2. I see no benefit whatsoever by doing this and i am confused why having sore muscles is a diserable outcome? Would you run with poor form to make your legs feel more tired? Tough crowd in here... A sore muscle is not a desirable outcome. It is however a result of working a muscle in a way that it is not used to. If you work this technique in slowly and don't over exadurate the inside and outside strokes, you won't feel a thing. You will be using the same muscles that are used during freestyle stroke, just in a slightly different position than your normal stroke. I think the "New School" term is muscle confusion. Not meaning to be tough, just confused. How again does working incorrect technique and then switching to correct technique provide a beneficial adaptation? Is the inference that these "unused" muscles will become stronger and help the one's that are used? If that's the case,i would agree with John that doing other strokes to target those areas is probably a better, safer protocol. Edited by bryancd 2009-06-12 2:16 PM |
| 2009-06-12 2:18 PM in reply to: #2213983 |
Master 2167 Livonia, MI | Subject: RE: An Old School Swimming trick. bryancd - 2009-06-12 2:06 PM Detroit Dan - 2009-06-12 1:54 PM bryancd - 2009-06-12 1:29 PM JohnnyKay - 2009-06-12 12:56 PM Sometimes there are a reason things are left behind in the "Old School". x2. I see no benefit whatsoever by doing this and i am confused why having sore muscles is a diserable outcome? Would you run with poor form to make your legs feel more tired? Tough crowd in here... A sore muscle is not a desirable outcome. It is however a result of working a muscle in a way that it is not used to. If you work this technique in slowly and don't over exadurate the inside and outside strokes, you won't feel a thing. You will be using the same muscles that are used during freestyle stroke, just in a slightly different position than your normal stroke. I think the "New School" term is muscle confusion. Not meaning to be tough, just confused. How again does working incorrect technique and then switching to correct technique provide a beneficial adaptation? As someone who has struggled to break my bad habit of over crossing my arms and not keeping them wide enough, I have to agree that this technique seems counterproductive. If you want to employ muscle confusion techniques, doing a similar movement out of the pool with cables in a weight training session seems like a better idea to me. That way you're not teaching yourself bad swimming habits; and if soreness is your aim, adding load will get you there with less repetitions while still being able to keep good form and not over rotate the shoulder. |
| 2009-06-12 2:41 PM in reply to: #2213741 |
Elite 2645 Phoenix, AZ | Subject: RE: An Old School Swimming trick. tkd.teacher - 2009-06-12 11:01 AM Detroit Dan - 2009-06-12 10:42 AM tkd.teacher - 2009-06-12 12:36 PM Detroit Dan - 2009-06-12 10:32 AM I should add... Only do this in training NOT in a race because it is slower. The benefit is that you will "cross train" the sweet spot of your stroke working on both sides of it. Uhm..ok. Dubious concept at best. How do you prevent injury to the shoulder while swimming with such exaggerated inside and outside motions? John You won't injure yourself and you will thank me in the morning when you can feel the muscles that got used. You're putting your shoulder at a very awkward angle, and then putting it under repeated load stress. The shoulder is very delicate joint as it is. John
Maybe YOUR shoulders are delicate. Not mine:
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| 2009-06-12 3:03 PM in reply to: #2213945 |
Elite 4048 Gilbert, Az. | Subject: RE: An Old School Swimming trick. Detroit Dan - 2009-06-12 11:54 AM I think the "New School" term is muscle confusion. Just stop. Please. You've lost all chance at credibility with that statement. John |
| 2009-06-12 3:08 PM in reply to: #2213726 |
Expert 1296 | Subject: RE: An Old School Swimming trick. JohnnyKay - 2009-06-12 1:56 PM Sometimes there are a reason things are left behind in the "Old School". LOL This whole thread should have a global edit & replace of the word swimming. |
| 2009-06-12 3:10 PM in reply to: #2213618 |
Champion 8936 | Subject: RE: An Old School Swimming trick. I'm having brain confusion. |
| 2009-06-12 3:15 PM in reply to: #2214184 |
Science Nerd 28760 Redwood City, California | Subject: RE: An Old School Swimming trick. |
| 2009-06-12 3:17 PM in reply to: #2214195 |
Sneaky Slow 8694 Herndon, VA, | Subject: RE: An Old School Swimming trick. Artemis - 2009-06-12 4:15 PM  yay bunny pancake!! I think, actually, this picture is very illustrative of yet another "Old School" swimming technique... try swimming with a pancake on your head. Trying to keep the pancake dry will help your balance in the water. In fact, I've even seen this done at IM, for those who wish for nutrition on the swim. |
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