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2009-10-06 1:31 PM

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Subject: Carrying bottles of Nutrition on Bike –

I need to consume two bottles (900 calories each) of Infinit during IMFLA and my question is should I carry the second bottle on the bike or leave it in my special needs bag (weight vs. time).  I was thinking I may need to pee and I could kill two birds with one stone. I currently have a Profile design Aero drink for my water and Profile design seat tube bottle.  During Training I use an X-Lab saddle wing for extra water & nutrition.  What do you think 1 or 2?

1. Leave 2nd bottle in Special needs as this will eliminate the need for my X-Lab Saddle wing, but I will have to stop.

2.  Attach X-Lab Saddle wing and carry the 2nd bottle of Infinit – This would mean extra weight, but I don’t have to stop.


2009-10-06 2:00 PM
in reply to: #2445663

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Subject: RE: Carrying bottles of Nutrition on Bike –
I carried two 900 cal bottles in the frame cages and just replaced the water in my xlab cage.  Had a third 900 cal bottle in SN just in case.  I didn't stop.

As to weight of two bottles, probably washes out time wise if you don't stop at SN, and it's only weight for the first half since it's continually being drained, and by 56-60 you'll have only one bottle.  I would think if weight was that much of a concern dump the front bottle and put water in the rear cage.  But really, we're not talking several pounds here.

My biggest concern woulld be having the 2d 900 cal bottle in the xlab cage and if it ejects....   Then you have to deal with either getting it or abandoning it, and hope you have a spare in SN
2009-10-06 2:10 PM
in reply to: #2445663

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Alpharetta, GA
Subject: RE: Carrying bottles of Nutrition on Bike –
Great subject as I am grappling with the exact same thing.  Some additional concerns.  If you ditch the X-lab what are your plans for potential flats?  I think I am settled on having 2 - 2.5 hr bottles of Infinit on the bike (just decided to add a 3rd "just in case" 2.5 hr bottle to special needs in the event one of my bottles ejects).  I raced the Augusta 70.3 a week ago and had 2 bottle in the back which both ejected when I went over a seam to a bridge.  I plan on getting H2O from aid stations to cut the concentrate and mix in my aero bottle.  I tried the sit the concentrate and wash down with water, but proper dosing was an issue.  An extra oz is a lot of calories when that stuff is mixed triple strength.
2009-10-06 2:20 PM
in reply to: #2445663

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Master
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Subject: RE: Carrying bottles of Nutrition on Bike –

I'm doing the same as mentioned.  I'll carry two 3 hour bottles of Infinit on the bike and make a third and leave it in SN's along with a tube, old tire, and CO2 and hope I have no need to stop.  With the Super Wing and Gorilla cages I've been unable to eject a bottle and use it on every training ride.

I just use my Aerodrink for water on race day and normally use my Camelbak for training rides.

2009-10-06 2:36 PM
in reply to: #2445663

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Subject: RE: Carrying bottles of Nutrition on Bike –
I absolutely plan on keeping a spare (just incase) infinit bottle along with 1 tube & 1 CO2 in special needs just incase. I also plan on keeping two tubes & 2 CO2’s on the bike. I place both CO2’s with one spare in my Bento Box and one tube under my seat. YES – under my seat. I did this same setup during my HIM. So I have the tubes covered, still pondering about X-Lab or Stopping…..

2009-10-06 3:18 PM
in reply to: #2445764

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Pro
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Subject: RE: Carrying bottles of Nutrition on Bike –
Ingrid Loos - 2009-10-06 3:08 PM If you lose a bottle and don't have a spare, you are s-----d. Don't risk it. You also don't want to HAVE to stop at special needs. Carry both of the bottles AND have a spare in your special needs bag. Better yet, use one 34 oz bottle (avail on amazon I think) and put all 900 cal in a single bottle then you only have to mess with water at the aid stations. Of course you still want a spare in your special needs bag as well. Mark 100 cal servings on the bottle and take a swig of water with it-think of your big bottle as a huge gel. Hope this helps.


This is brilliant.  I honestly don't know why I didn't think of this before.

My plan for IMCOZ is to carry on my bike:
- 2 bottles of Infinit (3 hours each)
- 1 bottle of water

at SN:
- 1 3 hour bottle of Infinit

and I can refill water/ get water bottles at aid stations along the bike course.

great thread - thanks guys !!


2009-10-06 4:40 PM
in reply to: #2445764

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Sensei
Sin City
Subject: RE: Carrying bottles of Nutrition on Bike –
ChrisM - 2009-10-06 12:00 PM I carried two 900 cal bottles in the frame cages and just replaced the water in my xlab cage.  Had a third 900 cal bottle in SN just in case.  I didn't stop.

As to weight of two bottles, probably washes out time wise if you don't stop at SN, and it's only weight for the first half since it's continually being drained, and by 56-60 you'll have only one bottle.  I would think if weight was that much of a concern dump the front bottle and put water in the rear cage.  But really, we're not talking several pounds here.

My biggest concern woulld be having the 2d 900 cal bottle in the xlab cage and if it ejects....   Then you have to deal with either getting it or abandoning it, and hope you have a spare in SN


I vote this ^^^^

I wish I had been a little smarter on my IM.  I ended up putting two bottles of Infinit on my Xlab and one in my aerobottle.  (normal stregth).  I figured that would get me to SN where I had 3 more bottles waiting for me...  I ended up losing a lot of bottles because I would toss them after use...  (good thing I had about 2 dozen laying around the house).

Had I been smarter like Chris, I would have had a concentrated version, then grab water on the fly as needed every 10 miles.

My fall back plan if I lost a bottle was Gatorade Endurance which was provided on the course.  It suited me just as well as infinit so I was not concerned about using course nutrition if needed.
2009-10-06 4:46 PM
in reply to: #2445663

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Subject: RE: Carrying bottles of Nutrition on Bike –
I did as suggested for IM Canada...brought enough with me for the bike 3 2:20 bottles and had a spare in sn in case I lost or dropped one. Turned out I got really sick and was much slower than I expected to I picked up the extra bottle and was able to have enough nutrition with me. Didn't help much as I kept getting sick but towards the end I was able to keep it down and it helped for the run.

I put a X Lab on couple weeks before Canada that I had used in the past. Just remember you need to lift your leg over higher to clear the bottles with the X Lab on.

I like to be fully prepared and have a back up plan or two.
2009-10-06 6:17 PM
in reply to: #2445663

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Carrying bottles of Nutrition on Bike –
What I tried to do was have 1 3 hour bottle infinit in the aero bottle, and 1 3 hour bottle (powder only) on the downtube to fill up with water and mix at the half way point.  The problem was that there was a tiny bit of moisture in the nosel of the waterbottle and it made some of the infinit all clumpy, especially inside the nosel.  It took way too much time to unclump and remix things and get it out of the bottle without the nosel on it and to figure out what had gone wrong. 

So, next time it is 2 x 3 hour bottles, 16 oz water up front and some water, depending on how hot it is in back in my Neverreach.  The Neverreach is kind of an emergency water resevour during IM and a primary water source for shorter races.  If temps are low it may have 8 oz of water, if it is 100 F it will definatly have more.  However, nothing ejects from my bike.   Neverreach is bolted on and podiumquest is velcroed into place. 
2009-10-06 6:36 PM
in reply to: #2445663

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Expert
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Subject: RE: Carrying bottles of Nutrition on Bike –
Hummm...  I alwasy carry two bottles with me and have an extra in my special needs..   It has worked in the past and it better work for Arizona again..

yay

 
2009-10-07 9:42 AM
in reply to: #2445663

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Subject: RE: Carrying bottles of Nutrition on Bike –
Also keep in mind that at a place like florida (flat) weight is not so much of an issue.  Once you get moving, keeping that momentum is not a 'problem'.  Extra weight comes more into play when you are having to accelerate.

I'm also not a fan of playing chemist on course.  But if you have trained with it, go for it.  Another option is to put it on your downtube so it won't eject and save the rear holders for water you pick up along the course.


2009-10-07 10:19 AM
in reply to: #2445764

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Subject: RE: Carrying bottles of Nutrition on Bike –
I second this; I also do infinite and cram all my calories into 1 of those 23oz bottles. It is like syrup coming out but does the job. I would start with a 1/2 serving in the aero bottle and the rest of the 1750ish in the one frame bottle. I get 1600 calories in my bottle. That would be nasty to drink straight; I mix it in my aero bottle at every aide station. Also if you can't fit it all in I would fill a little gel flask with powder then dump the powder into your aero bottle in the end if you still need it.

Get rid of stopping at the special needs and the weight of the saddle cages. Stopping at special needs is always a risk. You take some time to slow down, get into traffic, wait to find your bag, get out of traffic, and accelerate back to speed. You never know if someone behind is going to hit you or steer into you by accident. I just try to avoid it all together if I can.

Just my 2 cents

Ingrid Loos - 2009-10-06 12:08 PM


Better yet, use one 34 oz bottle (avail on amazon I think) and put all 900 cal in a single bottle then you only have to mess with water at the aid stations. Of course you still want a spare in your special needs bag as well.

Mark 100 cal servings on the bottle and take a swig of water with it-think of your big bottle as a huge gel.

Hope this helps.

2009-10-07 11:53 AM
in reply to: #2445663

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Subject: RE: Carrying bottles of Nutrition on Bike –
Is there a specific reason folks don't just use regular strength bottles of Inifinit and then carry extra powder or have powder in Special Needs? I want to keep it as simple as possible, and so during my training rides I just carry 4 regular strength 20 oz. bottles and ziplocs w/ powder for additional bottles that I make up with water I purchase (or water I would get off the course in a race). I typically don't carry any water on my bike.

This seems to have worked for me so far, but since it seems like I am in the minority, I'd like to figure out why my system doesn't work for others, so I can figure out if perhaps I might want to think about something different for race day. I am doing IM Coz in November, and so have some time to try out new systems.

The one or two times I tried double strength bottles, I found it confusing b/c I was trying to dilute bottles w/ water along the way and would forget whether I had already diluted a bottle or not and so didn't know what I was drinking. Under my system, I just drink the bottle and when it's done, I know I'm done and how many calories I've had. The only downside I can see is that I have to stuff my pockets w/ ziplocs full of powder. But maybe there are others? Please advise!
2009-10-07 12:28 PM
in reply to: #2447666

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Carrying bottles of Nutrition on Bike –
luejs - 2009-10-07 11:53 AM Is there a specific reason folks don't just use regular strength bottles of Inifinit and then carry extra powder or have powder in Special Needs? I want to keep it as simple as possible, and so during my training rides I just carry 4 regular strength 20 oz. bottles and ziplocs w/ powder for additional bottles that I make up with water I purchase (or water I would get off the course in a race). I typically don't carry any water on my bike. This seems to have worked for me so far, but since it seems like I am in the minority, I'd like to figure out why my system doesn't work for others, so I can figure out if perhaps I might want to think about something different for race day. I am doing IM Coz in November, and so have some time to try out new systems. The one or two times I tried double strength bottles, I found it confusing b/c I was trying to dilute bottles w/ water along the way and would forget whether I had already diluted a bottle or not and so didn't know what I was drinking. Under my system, I just drink the bottle and when it's done, I know I'm done and how many calories I've had. The only downside I can see is that I have to stuff my pockets w/ ziplocs full of powder. But maybe there are others? Please advise!


Logisitics and volume of liquid required to get the calories are the reason I don't do your method. 
I prefer to only have to take a few sips of the Infinit and chase it with water.  I don't want to have be chugging a bottle of Infinit every hour AND taking in water. That's a lot to put in the gut!!
Also, I have no desire to carry that much powder. If I don't have to stop for special needs, I don't want to do so! I'll take time wherever I can get it.  I can handle the 3 hour concentrated, and so why not just put two bottles on the bike, have my aero bottle for water, and just have to refill my water as I go.  Less logisitics, less time stopping to mix, and less in my gut.  I'll have a spare bottle in special needs in the event that I lose a bottle somewhere in the first 1/2 of the race. 

remember, your nutrition is not supposed to double as your hydration.  So, if ou are doing a 6 hr IM ride with 6 20oz bottles of Infinit, you'll be taking in ALL that and needing to take in a bunch of water too.  You're going to have to stop to pee a lot or have one full gut once you get to the run...just my thoughts on why I don't do it your way.
2009-10-07 12:30 PM
in reply to: #2447666

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Champion
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Atlanta, Ga
Subject: RE: Carrying bottles of Nutrition on Bike –
luejs - 2009-10-07 12:53 PM Is there a specific reason folks don't just use regular strength bottles of Inifinit and then carry extra powder or have powder in Special Needs? I want to keep it as simple as possible, and so during my training rides I just carry 4 regular strength 20 oz. bottles and ziplocs w/ powder for additional bottles that I make up with water I purchase (or water I would get off the course in a race). I typically don't carry any water on my bike. This seems to have worked for me so far, but since it seems like I am in the minority, I'd like to figure out why my system doesn't work for others, so I can figure out if perhaps I might want to think about something different for race day. I am doing IM Coz in November, and so have some time to try out new systems. The one or two times I tried double strength bottles, I found it confusing b/c I was trying to dilute bottles w/ water along the way and would forget whether I had already diluted a bottle or not and so didn't know what I was drinking. Under my system, I just drink the bottle and when it's done, I know I'm done and how many calories I've had. The only downside I can see is that I have to stuff my pockets w/ ziplocs full of powder. But maybe there are others? Please advise!


This is exactly what I did for IM Louisville.  I had 3 bottles onboard and 3 bottles in special needs.  No need to play Chemist on course.

Stopping at Special Needs cost me about a minute and it was a nice little break.
2009-10-07 12:43 PM
in reply to: #2445663

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Subject: RE: Carrying bottles of Nutrition on Bike –
The weight of the bottle is meaningless. Stopping at Special Needs is way more time consuming (Dan, I'm surprised you stopped! NEVER STOP). Carry your two bottles of whatever you mix on the frame. Use an X-Lab to hold your spare on one side and a course acquired water or Gatorade bottle on the other. ANd have your spare in Special Needs if you loose one. It's a lot to carry, but that's the compromise when you use specialty nutrition, but the weight isn't a huge deal.


2009-10-07 12:44 PM
in reply to: #2447762

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Subject: RE: Carrying bottles of Nutrition on Bike –
TexasMPGal - 2009-10-07 1:28 PM

remember, your nutrition is not supposed to double as your hydration.  So, if ou are doing a 6 hr IM ride with 6 20oz bottles of Infinit, you'll be taking in ALL that and needing to take in a bunch of water too.  You're going to have to stop to pee a lot or have one full gut once you get to the run...just my thoughts on why I don't do it your way.


I 100% disagree with this one.  I didn't take a sip of water during IM.  (I did grab water bottles to douse myself with though)

That is the purpose of Infinit, so you have your nutrition & hydration all wrapped up in one neat little package.  300 Kcal/bottle adn I went through almost all 6 bottles for my 5.5 hrs on the bike.
2009-10-07 1:32 PM
in reply to: #2447806

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Carrying bottles of Nutrition on Bike –
Marvarnett - 2009-10-07 12:44 PM
TexasMPGal - 2009-10-07 1:28 PM

remember, your nutrition is not supposed to double as your hydration.  So, if ou are doing a 6 hr IM ride with 6 20oz bottles of Infinit, you'll be taking in ALL that and needing to take in a bunch of water too.  You're going to have to stop to pee a lot or have one full gut once you get to the run...just my thoughts on why I don't do it your way.


I 100% disagree with this one.  I didn't take a sip of water during IM.  (I did grab water bottles to douse myself with though)

That is the purpose of Infinit, so you have your nutrition & hydration all wrapped up in one neat little package.  300 Kcal/bottle adn I went through almost all 6 bottles for my 5.5 hrs on the bike.


Interesting. Guess it's just a personal deal for what the body can tolerate. I tried it that way and it just wasn't enough to keep me hydrated and/or my body just wanted plain water. The just infinit and some water bloated me a bit. Concentrated and more water ended up being the perfect mix for me.  A good reason for experimenting with nutrition BEFORE race day, knowing what works specifically for you!
2009-10-07 2:11 PM
in reply to: #2447802

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Subject: RE: Carrying bottles of Nutrition on Bike –
Carry your two bottles of whatever you mix on the frame. 


Please tell me there are other people out there that can only put one bottle on their frame????

I will definitely look for this "lack of" feature on future bike purchases.  You have NO idea how many times I've really really wanted a second frame bottle...but can't do it.
2009-10-07 2:21 PM
in reply to: #2448045

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Subject: RE: Carrying bottles of Nutrition on Bike –
jldicarlo - 2009-10-07 2:11 PM

Carry your two bottles of whatever you mix on the frame. 


Please tell me there are other people out there that can only put one bottle on their frame????

I will definitely look for this "lack of" feature on future bike purchases.  You have NO idea how many times I've really really wanted a second frame bottle...but can't do it.


I only have a single fram cage as well. If that's the case, one on the frame, one in the back, and jam your repair kit betyween the two rear cages.
2009-10-07 2:35 PM
in reply to: #2448045

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Not a Coach
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Subject: RE: Carrying bottles of Nutrition on Bike –
jldicarlo - 2009-10-07 3:11 PM
Carry your two bottles of whatever you mix on the frame. 


Please tell me there are other people out there that can only put one bottle on their frame????

I will definitely look for this "lack of" feature on future bike purchases.  You have NO idea how many times I've really really wanted a second frame bottle...but can't do it.


I have only one on my frame.  For my recent IM, I made a 3 hour bottle of Infinit carried on the frame.  Carried a plain bottle of water horizontally between my aerobars.  Carried gel flasks in my jersey pocket (about another 3 hours-worth).  No stopping at SN.

Racing with a rear bottle holder ejector is a last-resort option that I hope to never use.


2009-10-07 2:37 PM
in reply to: #2448045

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Subject: RE: Carrying bottles of Nutrition on Bike –
jldicarlo - 2009-10-07 3:11 PM
Carry your two bottles of whatever you mix on the frame. 


Please tell me there are other people out there that can only put one bottle on their frame????

I will definitely look for this "lack of" feature on future bike purchases.  You have NO idea how many times I've really really wanted a second frame bottle...but can't do it.


Women's bikes and smaller frame sizes in general often don't have room for the second water bottle holder.  Keep in mind it's not just room for the two bolts, but rather the bottle on top of that, and then enough room to get it in and out.  I've got a 56 cm frame, and with the 24 oz bottles can barely get it in the seat tube cage without dropping it.
2009-10-07 2:48 PM
in reply to: #2445663

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Subject: RE: Carrying bottles of Nutrition on Bike –
This is all really helpful, thanks. Interesting point about Infinit not taking care of your hydration needs -- in my experience, drinking Infinit alone MORE than fulfills my hydration needs (i.e. I never touch water). I actually find that it may hydrate me too well, judging by the fact that I have to use the bathroom as often as I do. Which may be a reason to sip on a concentrated bottle, so that I'm getting the same calories but taking in less liquid.

This leads me to another question -- for those who use concentrated Infinit, are you taking in enough water to make up for the concentrate?

For example, when I drink a full strength bottle of Infinit, it's 20 oz, and has 230 calories. If I did a concentrated bottle, I'd get 460 calories in 20 oz, but would I then have to take in 20 oz of water? If so, then I'm taking in 40 oz of liquid either way, so what does it matter if it's concentrated or not.

I'd be interested in the concentrated bottle if it meant less liquid overall, since I apparently hydrate quite easily, but if I have to drink the same amount of liquid no matter what (to balance out the "osmolality" or whatnot in the concentrated bottle), then that makes me lean again towards just using regular strength bottles.

2009-10-07 3:33 PM
in reply to: #2445663

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Expert
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Subject: RE: Carrying bottles of Nutrition on Bike –
I carried one concentrated bottle w/Infinit for IMWI and mixed it in my aero bottle w/water.
I have two cages on my bike frame, kept one with fresh water and the other was my concentrated mix.
I do this in training all the time, so it is pretty automatic for me.

Extra weight from the bottles hmmm never thought about it since I carry 6 bottles with me when I train there is no place to stop for h20, so actually I was really light that day.

Special needs I had a bottle with Infinit dry in case I needed it figured I could just mix it
w/water to make my concentrated bottle if I lost mine - did not plan to stop-  was just an emergency back up along w/tube and co2. 
 
good luck with your race have fun
2009-10-07 3:38 PM
in reply to: #2448071

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Subject: RE: Carrying bottles of Nutrition on Bike –
bryancd - 2009-10-07 2:21 PM
jldicarlo - 2009-10-07 2:11 PM
Carry your two bottles of whatever you mix on the frame. 


Please tell me there are other people out there that can only put one bottle on their frame????

I will definitely look for this "lack of" feature on future bike purchases.  You have NO idea how many times I've really really wanted a second frame bottle...but can't do it.
I only have a single fram cage as well. If that's the case, one on the frame, one in the back, and jam your repair kit betyween the two rear cages.


The last time I tried to use a rear bottle holder it just didn't work...either my arse is too big or I got the wrong one...because I physically could not sit on my saddle with it back there!  I kept running into it trying to get to the right spot on my saddle.

For my IM I used a Neverreach for water and just had one 3 hour bottle of infinit in the frame cage.  I had to stop at special needs to swap out the bottle really quick...but it was a VERY short stop.  I also carried a baggie of infinit powder just in case I didn't get my special needs bag....

I guess in theory I could use the neverreach for the Infinit, but I find that using any special bottles like aerobottles or the neverreach for anything other than water just makes them go funky faster than you can say ironman...
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