General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Building Endurance: Run/Walk or Power Walk? Rss Feed  
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2009-12-02 9:20 AM

Subject: Building Endurance: Run/Walk or Power Walk?
Forgive me if this has been asked previously, but I haven't noticed a discussion on it.

I'm in the midst of starting back over (after a bit more than a year off triathlon), and have very little cardio endurance right now (argh!). But I'm working it...

I'm focusing on going nice and easy to make sure I'm building my fitness properly, but when I run (even very slowly), my RPE and HR (I've found through checking my HR in conjunction with RPE that once I go above the mid 150's or so, I'm moving out of where I should be) go too high. Because of my current level of fitness, even a slow jog pushes me above a level of effort that can be maintained and I walk to bring it back down. On the other hand, if I powerwalk, I can keep my effort at a pretty even level, right where it should be.

It got me wondering: Is it better to alternate jogging and walking or to do fast walking to build aerobic capacity?

I feel like when I alternate jogging/walking, my effort level is all over the place, but if I powerwalk, my effort level and HR can stay high enough without going too high. On the other hand, when I powerwalk, I feel like I'm using much different muscles than when I'm running. I should probably also note that I don't really have any joint pain/problems to keep me from doing the run/walk combo.

At this point in the game (I can alternate jog/walk for an hour and feel good afterward (tired, but not wiped out)), is it better to build my endurance via run/walk combo to acclimate the body to the running motion and running fitness (eventually being able to increase the amount of running over time), or is it better to work on keeping a steady aerobic effort without too much up and down and then transition to running when power walking doesn't get my effort/HR up high enough anymore? (Does that even happen?) Maybe it doesn't matter, but I was curious as to people's experiences/thoughts/advice.

Hopefully the question made sense! Thanks in advance for your thoughts!


2009-12-02 9:23 AM
in reply to: #2539277

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Subject: RE: Building Endurance: Run/Walk or Power Walk?
What is the ultimate goal you are working toward?  Are you just looking for better overall fitness or are you looking for some specific result in a specific event?  That will help define what approach may be more successful.
2009-12-02 9:29 AM
in reply to: #2539282

Subject: RE: Building Endurance: Run/Walk or Power Walk?
My goal is definitely to improve running fitness. In the shorter term - for 5K, 10K races and shorter tri's (sprint, olympic). Longer term - running endurance for longer distances (both runs longer tri's).

In short, I'd like to be able to run longer (fewer or no walking breaks), and eventually faster.
2009-12-02 12:11 PM
in reply to: #2539297

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Subject: RE: Building Endurance: Run/Walk or Power Walk?

If your goal is to run, then I think that building up to incorporate running with your powerwalking will get you there faster than getting really good at powerwalking first.  Start with bigger intervals, though (10 min walking/1 min running or even bigger) as needed to bring your HR down below your LT.  Keep your run intervals ridiculously slow, though, to try to keep your HR down and avoid injury.

Also, if cardio is your limiter, you may want to try some high cadence biking or a spin class on your non-run/walk days.  That would help build your cardio without pounding your joints.

Good luck!  : )

2009-12-02 12:17 PM
in reply to: #2539277

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Subject: RE: Building Endurance: Run/Walk or Power Walk?
I'd go with run/walk strategy.

What is the ratio of run to walk you do now?

You can experiment with what works. I do long runs anywhere from 4/1 to 9/1 to 19/1 depending on the goal. But starting out more frequent walk breaks is more helpful.

Can you run slower during your run portion to keep your HR down?

When I started doing run/walk 2 years ago I noticed my HR go way up when I started to run..so I stretched out and in time my HR doesn't jack it up the same any more.
2009-12-02 1:56 PM
in reply to: #2539799

Subject: RE: Building Endurance: Run/Walk or Power Walk?
Thanks, all for the input.

My run/walk ratio varies, as I've been just going by my HR/RPE and walking as needed. The proportion switches from more running to more walking as the hour goes on. That's part of why I was asking - if I'm going to alternate, it might be a good idea to be more organized about it.

Yeah, my HR seems to go too high, even when running as slow as I can (unless I can train myself to run slower!).

It sounds like doing the run/walk is the best bet. I'll experiment a bit to see what ratio works for me and go from there.

Thanks!


2009-12-02 3:34 PM
in reply to: #2539277

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Subject: RE: Building Endurance: Run/Walk or Power Walk?
IMO, at this point you're going too far/too long. I don't see the point of going at it for an hour. I think you would be better off by running for 20 minutes a day, and increasing the time as you adapt. If 20 minutes of solid running is too much at this time then do whatever you can. You also don't need to be running as hard as you can, just an easy jog will do.

Adding in some biking will help with the cardio progress as well, but it is not a substitute for running. If you want to run, you need to run. The biking should be an additional workout.
2009-12-02 3:59 PM
in reply to: #2539277

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Subject: RE: Building Endurance: Run/Walk or Power Walk?
My situation is kinda the same. I can get on my treadmill and run at 6mph all day long, literally could probably run a marathon on that thing at that speed. I warm up at like 3mph for 5 mins and then "hit it". About 2 mins into my warmu-, my HR is already at 150 or so...I run the 6mph (again, could literally run all day) at like 168-172. I have never done a LT test or anything like that. My fear in using a HR training plan is that I will do say a 60 min run in zone 2 at like 15 min/mile. Any suggestions/advice?

Kevin
2009-12-02 3:59 PM
in reply to: #2540083

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Subject: RE: Building Endurance: Run/Walk or Power Walk?
lazytriathlete - 2009-12-02 2:56 PM Thanks, all for the input.

My run/walk ratio varies, as I've been just going by my HR/RPE and walking as needed. The proportion switches from more running to more walking as the hour goes on. That's part of why I was asking - if I'm going to alternate, it might be a good idea to be more organized about it.

Yeah, my HR seems to go too high, even when running as slow as I can (unless I can train myself to run slower!).

It sounds like doing the run/walk is the best bet. I'll experiment a bit to see what ratio works for me and go from there.

Thanks!


If you are slowing down or needing to walk more as the time goes by walk more to start, go slower or both. Sounds like you are just getting tired.

How often are you running? How long each time? How are you determining what your HR and RPE should be?

Be sure you don't increase your run time more than 10% each week and if feeling off or tired step back and take a rest week.

2009-12-02 4:02 PM
in reply to: #2540322

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Subject: RE: Building Endurance: Run/Walk or Power Walk?

Kevin_MS - 2009-12-02 4:59 PM My situation is kinda the same. I can get on my treadmill and run at 6mph all day long, literally could probably run a marathon on that thing at that speed. I warm up at like 3mph for 5 mins and then "hit it". About 2 mins into my warmu-, my HR is already at 150 or so...I run the 6mph (again, could literally run all day) at like 168-172. I have never done a LT test or anything like that. My fear in using a HR training plan is that I will do say a 60 min run in zone 2 at like 15 min/mile. Any suggestions/advice? Kevin

Don't train with HR.

2009-12-02 4:02 PM
in reply to: #2539277

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Subject: RE: Building Endurance: Run/Walk or Power Walk?
just run really slow.  and plan a route thats a bit longer than you normally run, and just run it.  When you feel tired and feel like walking, just run slower.  The realization that if i walk it will take me longer to get home usually is enough to keep me going.


2009-12-02 4:22 PM
in reply to: #2540322

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Subject: RE: Building Endurance: Run/Walk or Power Walk?
Kevin_MS - 2009-12-02 2:59 PM My situation is kinda the same. I can get on my treadmill and run at 6mph all day long, literally could probably run a marathon on that thing at that speed. I warm up at like 3mph for 5 mins and then "hit it". About 2 mins into my warmu-, my HR is already at 150 or so...I run the 6mph (again, could literally run all day) at like 168-172. I have never done a LT test or anything like that. My fear in using a HR training plan is that I will do say a 60 min run in zone 2 at like 15 min/mile. Any suggestions/advice? Kevin


Not really enough information to give specific advice. 6 mph is a 10 min/mile. How fast is your 5K race pace? How often do you run. How long each time? Age, weight, medical conditions are also factors.

Generally speaking, run more frequently at a slower pace for less distance. Increase the distance slightly as you adapt. The combination of consistency and increasing volume over time will allow you to run faster. This can keep going for quite some time. I'm now at 70+ miles/week and still getting faster. My easy training runs are now faster than my race pace of a few years ago. It takes time. Look at it as a project spanning several years, maybe like going to college. Most people don't get a degree in 6 months and most people don't reach their potential as runners that fast either. However, keep doing the right things consistently for several years and the benefits can be had.
2009-12-02 4:28 PM
in reply to: #2540329

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Subject: RE: Building Endurance: Run/Walk or Power Walk?
Scout7 - 2009-12-02 4:02 PM

Kevin_MS - 2009-12-02 4:59 PM My situation is kinda the same. I can get on my treadmill and run at 6mph all day long, literally could probably run a marathon on that thing at that speed. I warm up at like 3mph for 5 mins and then "hit it". About 2 mins into my warmu-, my HR is already at 150 or so...I run the 6mph (again, could literally run all day) at like 168-172. I have never done a LT test or anything like that. My fear in using a HR training plan is that I will do say a 60 min run in zone 2 at like 15 min/mile. Any suggestions/advice? Kevin

Don't train with HR.



Yeah, I don't really train with HR, just a general observation that I had.

Kevin
2009-12-02 4:32 PM
in reply to: #2540351

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Subject: RE: Building Endurance: Run/Walk or Power Walk?
Donskiman - 2009-12-02 4:22 PM

Kevin_MS - 2009-12-02 2:59 PM My situation is kinda the same. I can get on my treadmill and run at 6mph all day long, literally could probably run a marathon on that thing at that speed. I warm up at like 3mph for 5 mins and then "hit it". About 2 mins into my warmu-, my HR is already at 150 or so...I run the 6mph (again, could literally run all day) at like 168-172. I have never done a LT test or anything like that. My fear in using a HR training plan is that I will do say a 60 min run in zone 2 at like 15 min/mile. Any suggestions/advice? Kevin


Not really enough information to give specific advice. 6 mph is a 10 min/mile. How fast is your 5K race pace? How often do you run. How long each time? Age, weight, medical conditions are also factors.

Generally speaking, run more frequently at a slower pace for less distance. Increase the distance slightly as you adapt. The combination of consistency and increasing volume over time will allow you to run faster. This can keep going for quite some time. I'm now at 70+ miles/week and still getting faster. My easy training runs are now faster than my race pace of a few years ago. It takes time. Look at it as a project spanning several years, maybe like going to college. Most people don't get a degree in 6 months and most people don't reach their potential as runners that fast either. However, keep doing the right things consistently for several years and the benefits can be had.


Don,

I don't run nearly as much as I should...my HIM training plan is about to kick in full gear, so it will get better. I have been running for about 20 yrs now and my 5K PR is 18:26. Now, I couldn't go run that now if you were chasing me with a gun, but I have some endurance...could run a 10K today no problem...proabably about 54 mins or so (judging by my last 10K). I have been sidelined in the past for two different shoulder surgeries and they really hit me hard. I was training for a marathon before each surgery, and had worked up to about 40 mpw prior to surgeries. Then, I just stopped.

Kevin
2009-12-02 4:59 PM
in reply to: #2540364

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Subject: RE: Building Endurance: Run/Walk or Power Walk?
Kevin_MS - 2009-12-02 3:32 PM
Donskiman - 2009-12-02 4:22 PM
Kevin_MS - 2009-12-02 2:59 PM My situation is kinda the same. I can get on my treadmill and run at 6mph all day long, literally could probably run a marathon on that thing at that speed. I warm up at like 3mph for 5 mins and then "hit it". About 2 mins into my warmu-, my HR is already at 150 or so...I run the 6mph (again, could literally run all day) at like 168-172. I have never done a LT test or anything like that. My fear in using a HR training plan is that I will do say a 60 min run in zone 2 at like 15 min/mile. Any suggestions/advice? Kevin


Not really enough information to give specific advice. 6 mph is a 10 min/mile. How fast is your 5K race pace? How often do you run. How long each time? Age, weight, medical conditions are also factors.

Generally speaking, run more frequently at a slower pace for less distance. Increase the distance slightly as you adapt. The combination of consistency and increasing volume over time will allow you to run faster. This can keep going for quite some time. I'm now at 70+ miles/week and still getting faster. My easy training runs are now faster than my race pace of a few years ago. It takes time. Look at it as a project spanning several years, maybe like going to college. Most people don't get a degree in 6 months and most people don't reach their potential as runners that fast either. However, keep doing the right things consistently for several years and the benefits can be had.
Don, I don't run nearly as much as I should...my HIM training plan is about to kick in full gear, so it will get better. I have been running for about 20 yrs now and my 5K PR is 18:26. Now, I couldn't go run that now if you were chasing me with a gun, but I have some endurance...could run a 10K today no problem...proabably about 54 mins or so (judging by my last 10K). I have been sidelined in the past for two different shoulder surgeries and they really hit me hard. I was training for a marathon before each surgery, and had worked up to about 40 mpw prior to surgeries. Then, I just stopped. Kevin


Not running as much as you should is an affliction shared by many people. It sounds like you had some decent speed at some point, then stopped doing whatever it was you were doing for some reason - maybe the shoulder injuries.

I've only been running for just over 9 years and hav really only considered myself a runner the past 2. In the last 2 years I have run more than the previous 7 combined. Last year at age 52 I set 17 new PRs in distances ranging from 2 miles to a solid BQ marathon. An early season injury this year set me back a bit, but now that I'm running strong again I've set several new PRs. I've moved from MOP to often placing in my age group in many races.

I think there are huge gains to be had by running 40 mpw on a consistent basis, and almost all that volume is at an easy pace. Of course as I alluded to previously, building to that point takes time and should not be rushed. With your ability, if you can build to a solid level and maintain it for 3-6 months, you may be capable of coming very close to your times of years past. I know there are guys in my age group (50-54) who are still running 5Ks in the mid 17 range. They are rare though and mostly the top guys are in the mid 19s. I'm not there yet, but I've been getting closer. While almost all the guys I regularly compete against are getting slower, I'm getting faster and I intend to keep at it.

I've read about guys in their 60s-70s still running 40 mpw or more who are still very fast. If they can do it, why can't the rest of us?
2009-12-03 12:34 AM
in reply to: #2539277

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Subject: RE: Building Endurance: Run/Walk or Power Walk?
I believe if you want to run then run/walk is the way to go. I was never a runner, in fact hated running for all my life. Always tended to run too fast (for me) and felt like I was going to die. The combination of slowing down and run/walk training allowed me to, over the course of 10 mos, go from not being able to maintain 6mph (10 min/mi) for more than a few minutes, to running a half marathon in 1:51 or 8:28 per mile pace. Clearly not blistering speed, but for someone who always hated to run and never ran more than 5 miles in my entire life, I'm happy. I do not think I would have enjoyed extending my distance without the run/walk method. It wasn't the cardiovascular issues that seemed to benefit the most, however. I found it a lot less painful on my legs/knees/hips/etc. I think that's why I always liked cycling. You can take an occasional rest, ie just spin, and give your legs a brief break then keep on moving. The example I give is if you were asked to do 100 pushups in the next 5 minutes, would you try to do 100 straight, or break it into sets. Just makes sense to me to break it into sets with some mini-breaks in there. Once I got over the testosterone hurdle of taking a walk break, I was all set. I now actually enjoy running. Never dreamed it would be the case.


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