General Discussion Triathlon Talk » What the heck: Millions of people waste their time by jogging Rss Feed  
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2010-02-04 11:20 AM


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Subject: What the heck: Millions of people waste their time by jogging
Million of people wasting their time by jogging

I didn't think that we were all that different. Now I have to wonder if I am one of these people.

Edited by Photo Mike 2010-02-04 11:34 AM


2010-02-04 11:26 AM
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Subject: RE: What the heck: Millions of people waste their time by jogging
The entire link didn't copy in. Can you repost it, or use the link button? \
(Highlight a word, then press the picture of the "chain link" above. It is to the left of the anchor and to the right of the undo-redo buttons)
2010-02-04 11:27 AM
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Subject: RE: What the heck: Millions of people waste their time by jogging
on another board I'm on, we have a thread called "people who deserve to be savagely beaten". I may go over and nominate these 'scientists'.

""Researchers say they would be better off abandoning their exercise regime and focusing on other ways of staying healthy - such as improving their diet or taking medication""

Seriously, I didn't realize it was an either, or situation. I simply will not be sold on the fact that quality of life improvements alone are not worth it. Did they take not getting winded going up a flight of stairs into account as a possible benefit? What about actually not looking like a slob?

Also, does vetiranary mean something different in the UK? Don't want to take advice from my dog's doctor.
2010-02-04 11:28 AM
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Subject: RE: What the heck: Millions of people waste their time by jogging
ahohl - 2010-02-04 11:26 AM The entire link didn't copy in. Can you repost it, or use the link button? \
(Highlight a word, then press the picture of the "chain link" above. It is to the left of the anchor and to the right of the undo-redo buttons)


actually, you have to remove the >br at the end of the link. Somehow the link is too long.
2010-02-04 11:30 AM
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Subject: RE: What the heck: Millions of people waste their time by jogging
randomguymike - 2010-02-04 12:28 PM

ahohl - 2010-02-04 11:26 AM The entire link didn't copy in. Can you repost it, or use the link button? \
(Highlight a word, then press the picture of the "chain link" above. It is to the left of the anchor and to the right of the undo-redo buttons)


actually, you have to remove the >br at the end of the link. Somehow the link is too long.


Tinyurl exists for just such an occasion

http://tinyurl.com/yc8hcov
2010-02-04 11:31 AM
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Subject: RE: What the heck: Millions of people waste their time by jogging
Aerobic exercise helped 80% of the participants in the study.


2010-02-04 11:36 AM
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Subject: RE: What the heck: Millions of people waste their time by jogging
pga_mike - 2010-02-04 11:31 AM Aerobic exercise helped 80% of the participants in the study.


It even helped some of the 20%, just not enough that the doctors felt it was worthwhile compared to pushing drugs on them.
2010-02-04 11:39 AM
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Subject: RE: What the heck: Millions of people waste their time by jogging
I've lost 40 lbs because of the swimming/biking/running that I've done. I think I'll just ignore their study and keep on keepin' on.
2010-02-04 11:39 AM
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Subject: RE: What the heck: Millions of people waste their time by jogging
Meh.  I thought it was interesting.

We're always talking about "genetics" as a factor in performance here...but we're usually talking about genetic VO2 max freaks like Lance Armstrong.  Probably shouldn't be surprising that there are people who have genetic limitations in that way, too.  Nothing wrong with identifying people who might be missing out on more effective lifestyle/health choices than aerobic conditioning and steering them to those options...no different from wanting to identify people who are likely to have hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, who are otherwise healthy, but might just drop dead from endurance training.
2010-02-04 11:46 AM
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Subject: RE: What the heck: Millions of people waste their time by jogging

"...said that the discovery would pave the way for more personalised treatments, with patients able to take DNA tests to find out the most effective way of keeping their own hearts healthy.

It could also be used to root out would-be recruits to the Armed Forces who will never be able to reach the required fitness standards. "

That is alarming.  Before you know it, they'll want to give DNA tests before allowing you to hold certain jobs or to be admitted to certain schools...you know, to make sure you'd be able to "reach the required standards".

2010-02-04 11:49 AM
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Subject: RE: What the heck: Millions of people waste their time by jogging
It's a sensationalist headline. They focused on reporting the negative rather than the positive. It could just as easily have been titled "Tens of millions receive benefits by regular aerobic activity". The article was misleading in that they talked more about the outliers than the majority. There are many things in life that do not affect every person exactly the same. Additionally, most people did receive some benefit from exercise, but not as significant as others.


2010-02-04 11:50 AM
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Subject: RE: What the heck: Millions of people waste their time by jogging
Oh great, now another stupid article to convince people not to exercise.  Everyone remember that Time Magazine article that came out last year? (http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1914857,00.html).  Here we go again...
2010-02-04 11:57 AM
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Subject: RE: What the heck: Millions of people waste their time by jogging

Typical scientist. They think that drugs are the answer to everything. Need to lose weight, take this pill. Cha-ching for the drug company. Pick any condition that would be helped by excercise and they would rather you take a drug. More money for the drug company. With a little kick back to the scientist.

Ita, why is a veterinarian telling us people what to do?

2010-02-04 11:59 AM
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Subject: RE: What the heck: Millions of people waste their time by jogging
randomguymike - 2010-02-04 11:27 AM on another board I'm on, we have a thread called "people who deserve to be savagely beaten". I may go over and nominate these 'scientists'.

""Researchers say they would be better off abandoning their exercise regime and focusing on other ways of staying healthy - such as improving their diet or taking medication""

Seriously, I didn't realize it was an either, or situation. I simply will not be sold on the fact that quality of life improvements alone are not worth it. Did they take not getting winded going up a flight of stairs into account as a possible benefit? What about actually not looking like a slob?

Also, does vetiranary mean something different in the UK? Don't want to take advice from my dog's doctor.


Come on, Mike.  Exercixe takes time - time that may not be well spent for those people who will not appreciably benefit.  "Beating the scientists" does a HUGE disservice to those who might better take their exercise time and spend it with their families, or doing some other useful and/or enjoyable thing.  In that sense, exercise might in fact be an either/or.  And your point about not getting winded on stairs is nonsense - the report indicated that these 20% don't benefit aerobically, and thus will still get winded on stairs, regardless of the exercise.

Lighten up.  Disagree with the science?  Fine; other scientists no doubt will question the conclusions.  But it may turn out to be factually correct, and we will be better off for the knowing.

Gotta admit, though, I am not sure how Veterinary Medicine applies.
2010-02-04 12:28 PM
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Subject: RE: What the heck: Millions of people waste their time by jogging

Soon doctors will  be coaches to set your training plans based on your genetics...see the progress.  

2010-02-04 12:39 PM
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Subject: RE: What the heck: Millions of people waste their time by jogging
Could we could leave out the ad hominem attacks on physicians, scientists, and drug companies here?  Let's focus on the ones who actually did the study.

What I see is some significiant extrapolating being done, whether it be by the researcher or the reporter covering the story.  We know that aerobic exercise has a multitude of benefits.  Pointing out that some receive less benefit than others in one area doesn't negate the overall benefit of that exercise.  There is also no direct evidence that what they imply is true.  For them to say that aerobic exercise doesn't decrease the rate of diabetes, heart disease, etc., they need to at least show some sort of corellation before they try to make any such claims.  You will never get randomized controlled trials because the period of time we're looking at is too long for most researchers.

In short, I think they're reaching for conclusions that aren't there.  It's something more to be looked into though.


2010-02-04 12:53 PM
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Subject: RE: What the heck: Millions of people waste their time by jogging
Ita, why is a veterinarian telling us people what to do?

Difference between a DVM and a MD is that one specializes in one species.   Tons of research is done using certain animals as models for certain human conditions.  Thank goodness we do have Veterinarians out there.
2010-02-04 1:07 PM
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Subject: RE: What the heck: Millions of people waste their time by jogging

Read the article.  First remember this was research done by a group and (probably) funded by somebody else.  Probably a UK version of the NIH but I am not an expert in this.  Also remember that to be published all that happens is the particular journal had editors/reviewers go over the research (over simplification of the process) and decide that its worthy of inclusion.  Does this mean every scientist/researcher agrees with what they stated and that it is absolute, god-given truth?  No.  Future research may dispute it.  The headline was sensationalism at its best.  Some of the quotes about DNA testing was from someone who probably shouldn't have said it because of the emotional issue this touches.  I obviously am not in that 20% so I will keep exercising as it does help me.

2010-02-04 2:02 PM
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Subject: RE: What the heck: Millions of people waste their time by jogging
hamiltks10 - 2010-02-04 11:46 AM

That is alarming.  Before you know it, they'll want to give DNA tests before allowing you to hold certain jobs or to be admitted to certain schools...you know, to make sure you'd be able to "reach the required standards".



Gattaca here we come.
2010-02-04 2:24 PM
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Subject: RE: What the heck: Millions of people waste their time by jogging
sure, exercise is not a cure-all, there are some really fit women in my running club who still need blood pressure medication or need an insulin pump... there are other benefits to exercise, no?
2010-02-04 2:24 PM
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Subject: RE: What the heck: Millions of people waste their time by jogging
DerekL - 2010-02-04 1:39 PM Could we could leave out the ad hominem attacks on physicians, scientists, and drug companies here?  Let's focus on the ones who actually did the study.

What I see is some significiant extrapolating being done, whether it be by the researcher or the reporter covering the story.  We know that aerobic exercise has a multitude of benefits.  Pointing out that some receive less benefit than others in one area doesn't negate the overall benefit of that exercise.  There is also no direct evidence that what they imply is true.  For them to say that aerobic exercise doesn't decrease the rate of diabetes, heart disease, etc., they need to at least show some sort of corellation before they try to make any such claims.  You will never get randomized controlled trials because the period of time we're looking at is too long for most researchers.

In short, I think they're reaching for conclusions that aren't there.  It's something more to be looked into though.


^^^^^^ This


2010-02-04 2:34 PM
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Subject: RE: What the heck: Millions of people waste their time by jogging
DerekL - 2010-02-04 1:39 PM Could we could leave out the ad hominem attacks on physicians, scientists, and drug companies here?  Let's focus on the ones who actually did the study.

What I see is some significiant extrapolating being done, whether it be by the researcher or the reporter covering the story.  We know that aerobic exercise has a multitude of benefits.  Pointing out that some receive less benefit than others in one area doesn't negate the overall benefit of that exercise.  There is also no direct evidence that what they imply is true.  For them to say that aerobic exercise doesn't decrease the rate of diabetes, heart disease, etc., they need to at least show some sort of corellation before they try to make any such claims.  You will never get randomized controlled trials because the period of time we're looking at is too long for most researchers.

In short, I think they're reaching for conclusions that aren't there.  It's something more to be looked into though.


I agree with Derek.

I'd also like to point out that this is an EXTREMELY limited report, on what appears to be a flawed study.  Predicting large scale epidemiology based on a relatively small sample of subjects over 20 weeks is just poor science.  An analogy is that I spent $2,600 today on a car repair bill, so logically I, and everyone else at my office, spend $949,000 per year.  Um, no.

Second, genetics tells us that people respond differently to different stimuli (good or bad).  No study is needed to verify this point.  All subjects benefited in this study, just to a different degree.  Even if all other factors were controlled (which is highly unlikely), one person may lose, lets say, a BMI point while another subject may not lose anything.  But there's no way to tell whether that second subject may have stabilized their weight / cholesterol / etc., rather than worsening.  Preventing worsening of adverse conditions is a "win" for almost any non-invasive therapy.
2010-02-04 2:36 PM
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Subject: RE: What the heck: Millions of people waste their time by jogging
As is the case in many articles, the headlines and the conclusions are not really what the data suggests.  It seems like everyone benefited, and 80% had significant benefits from a little exercise.  Seems like execrices is a goiod thing, no?

But what I don't see is anything in depth about the study.  For instance, maybe the 20% were already in good shape.  If you took 100 BTers and took all our medical numbers, then had us do 30 minutes of exercise 5 times a week, our numbers would probably be WORSE after this little study.  Why?  Because 2 1/2 hours a week would be way less than we were already doing.

Anyway, even if I can't become Peter Reid, I'm still improving and I'm not stopping because a study in the UK thinks would be better off taking drugs instead.
2010-02-04 2:37 PM
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Subject: RE: What the heck: Millions of people waste their time by jogging
The only one who needs to be "savagely beaten" is the one who wrote the article tag line.  It is interesting.  I think it is reasonable to believe that what works for some may not work for all.  I found that TIME article last year to be fascinating (and disappointing). 

But, while it may not reduce the risk for certain conditions for some people, it still has benefits...... like getting you off the couch and doing something else with your life.  I don't do triathlons to lose weight or to ward off heart disease and diabetes.  It sure would be nice if that was a byproduct.  But I do them because I enjoy the challenge and the experience is rewarding. 
2010-02-04 2:45 PM
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Subject: RE: What the heck: Millions of people waste their time by jogging
hamiltks10 - 2010-02-04 12:46 PM

"...said that the discovery would pave the way for more personalised treatments, with patients able to take DNA tests to find out the most effective way of keeping their own hearts healthy.

It could also be used to root out would-be recruits to the Armed Forces who will never be able to reach the required fitness standards. "

That is alarming.  Before you know it, they'll want to give DNA tests before allowing you to hold certain jobs or to be admitted to certain schools...you know, to make sure you'd be able to "reach the required standards".



We already have standards for many things - the military has physical standards; medical school has academic standards.  Are you saying that everyone is equally capable of doing all jobs?  I personally would not want to have people trying to become doctors with IQ's of 85 (which is in the low normal range); both for the sake of their patients and also for themselves (imagine the frustration of trying to master the knowledge base, not to mention the debt load that you would never be able to pay off if you couldn't earn a decent living). And I would not want people in the military who could not lift a certain amount of weight or run, as they would become a liability to their squad and their own safety.

I don't have too much trouble believing that up to 20% of people have genetic limitations on what gains they can make from exercise.  I know we see this with other things as well.  My MIL has high cholesterol, even though she eats a healthy diet.  Even with meds, her numbers are alarming.  It is a purely genetic issue for her.  There is not much she can do on her own to improve her numbers. 

The real danger is the numbers of people who will now claim that THEY are in that 20%, and therefore use it as an excuse before even trying to make a change.  If I hadn't had success in the past with managing my weight, I might well have done so.  It makes more sense for people to really commit themselves for 6 months to the exercise plan, with a clear and measureable outcome (improvements in weight, or in fatigueability, or some other hard data), to see whether or not they made progress. That's the same kind of approach I take with managing mild depression or most anxiety disorders - work with the therapy for 3-6 months, then recheck the markers for improvement.  If none is seen, time for meds to be tried.
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