General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Swimming- volume or time? Rss Feed  
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2010-02-04 9:04 PM

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Subject: Swimming- volume or time?
Hi all. I'm doing my first tri (HIM) in June and, coming from a running background, I am struggling with the swimming training. While I'm learning quickly, I'm concerned that I might be overdoing it by sticking to the distances in my program (Beginner HIM plan from BT) which take me longer than the planned time given in the log. For example, the workout today was supposed to take 30 minutes and total 1,450 yds. I can't swim 1,450 yds in 30 minutes yet, so should I be cutting myself off at 30 minutes or should I being more concerned with the total volume (yardage)? I can see how there would be benefits for doing both, but I'd like to get your advice!


2010-02-04 9:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming- volume or time?
Congratulations on taking up such a large challenge, which I am sure you are up for. How many minutes or yards were you swimming regularly before starting this new plan? 1450 yards for a beginner swim in 30 minutes seems awfully fast, considering rest times, etc. I believe I would stay more with the time to start out with, but like I said it would depend on how much swimming youl have been doing.
2010-02-04 9:20 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming- volume or time?
From everything I've been told (runner background also) concentrate on technique and relaxing in the water.  Think about staying as horizontal as possible.  The more comfortable you become in the water, the faster you go, the easier it is to hit your target distance for a set time.  Me personally, I would probably keep the time as my priority, as long as I wasn't way off with the distance.  If you're technique is improving, and you can see results (more comfortable, not as out of breathe, faster pace) no sense in over-doing it and risking injury.  Drills are a beautiful thing!  But thats just what I would do.  Cool  ( I would be pressed for 1450 in 30 min, do-able but definitley a workout)
2010-02-04 9:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming- volume or time?
Do the distance...if you are slower than norm it will take you longer.

The distance needs be covered and training so you be ready for your HIM.
2010-02-04 9:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming- volume or time?
I'd go by distance. Speed should come as you become more proficient.
2010-02-04 10:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming- volume or time?
I would say volume with a caveat.  In the beginning, go for volume and forget the time.  That said, listen to your body.  When it says "I'm done", stop.  Once you are used to swimming (getting a few coaching sessions is a good idea) you will get fast enough that you can do the volume in the time specified (or slower, so I guess you should forget the time here too).

Looking at your logs, you are ramping up quickly.    You will need extra sleep, extra carbs, and extra protein (and extra other stuff that the experienced BT'ers can help with).  The triceps burning could be related to the increased swimming.  My tri feel like stones between 200 and 800 yards since I never never used them for anything before this year.


2010-02-04 11:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming- volume or time?
WOW, first tri is a HIM... that's a big jump, but I'm sure you'll do just fine though since you have a plan.  I would suggest trying to get a sprint in around April or May if you can.  If nothing else for the transition practice.  Sure you can do a HIM without doing anything shorter first, but you can probably work a sprint into your training plan as a high intensity brick or something.  I learned a ton the first time I went through T1 and T2, what I needed/wanted, what I didn't, how to organize my area, etc.   Plus it's good practice going from the swim to bike in such a short time (Something I can't replicate that well in training... the first time caught me off-guard with the slight disorientation going from horizontal to vertical so fast and trying to run to the bike.  Just my $0.02 on that though, it wouldn't hurt... but it's obviously not a requirement.

As for the swim training, if you have the time, do the workout the best you can and try to finish it regardless of how long it takes you.  Based on you having the running background and feeling a HIM is doable you're probably in good/great cardio shape already.  You're just not used to the mechanics of swimming, which I found develops quickly to get yourself able to do the workouts with your current technique.  5 months is definitely enough time to get yourself able to do the distance with whatever technique you have, but it's also long enough that you could change your technique (ie. relearn how to swim) to make the 1.2mile swim easier at the same pace (or faster).

If you haven't discovered it yet on here, or been told about it elsewhere, do some googleing for "total immersion", go to a bookstore and find a book on it by Terry Laughlin (buy it or read it at the store... I prefer to buy them).  5 months with that book will revolutionize your swimming for long distances (and short).  If you take that route, you'll see within a few days how the right form and technique will make 1.2 miles seem 'easy' (relatively speaking).  Form is much more important than strength at this point for you.
2010-02-05 1:51 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming- volume or time?
Swimming is my weaknes. I could swimm even three hours but my speed is very low, maximum yet I can rich is 1400yrds/hour.
Of course one of excuses could be my age, I'm 53 years old, but I can't accept so slow swimming and I MUST TO DO SOMETHING!
2010-02-05 7:16 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming- volume or time?
When I started IM training I was pretty new (OK, totally new) to swimming.  Compromise was necessary.  A 2500m workout was just not going t happen. (It would have taken me 2+ hours, and I would have ended up injured.)  I agree that doing the volume and not the time is the ideal solution, but for me at that time, this was not a viable option.  By the end of the training, I was pretty close to doing the prescribed workouts, though (by distance, not time).
2010-02-05 7:54 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming- volume or time?
Remember to get in some open water swims too!

A sprint Tri will get you experience with the swim portion of the race that you'll never get in the pool.
2010-02-05 8:02 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming- volume or time?
I did the same thing you did. First tri was a HIM.

I wasn't a very good swimmer and someone corrected my technique and it made all the difference in the world. If you technique is good you got it made. Work on getting that right and the rest will come. Once my swim got efficient I felt like I could literally swim all day. I would stop swimming after an hour because I just got bored.

For what its worth it used to take me an hour to swim 1.2 miles in the pool. I did some open water swims and kinda knew what to expect.

I did my 1.2 mile Tri swim in 42 minutes and I really felt like I was loafing.

Enjoy your race.


2010-02-05 8:04 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming- volume or time?
Volume.
2010-02-05 8:06 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming- volume or time?
KathyG - 2010-02-04 10:28 PM Do the distance...if you are slower than norm it will take you longer.

The distance needs be covered and training so you be ready for your HIM.


X2

I am following the same plan and am 7 weeks into it.  The very first swim was a total of 2500 yards and was alotted 40 min! I was like, really?  It took me an hour and 10 min to cover that much yardage.  But I always do the entire workout, regardless of how long it takes.  I've made little progress on speed, but my endurance for distance is really good!  And, if you can't cover the distance, it sure won't matter how fast you can go.

With all that said, it does depend on your swim background.  If you are not up to doing the distance in the workouts, then that will need built up first. 

Personally, I think this plan starts off with an awful lot of swim yardage for a beginner HIM plan, and seems too light on the bike and run.  Just my thoughts...

Edited by maria40nc 2010-02-05 8:11 AM
2010-02-05 8:17 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming- volume or time?
Doing the same plan, first HIM is April but I did 5 sprints last year.  The one thing about the BT HIM plan is that I think the swim distances are a bit much.  I can understand doing some 2000-2500m swims but seems like I saw some even longer swims.  Yeah, a 3000-3500 swim may improve my HIM swim time and fitness but think I will pass on it until my 2nd HIM where time will matter more to me.  I swim with a master class 3 times a week but substitute one longer distance swim a week.  Like everyone else:  Go for the volume, forget about the time but don't kill yourself. 
2010-02-05 8:22 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming- volume or time?

Personally, I think this plan starts off with an awful lot of swim yardage for a beginner HIM plan, and seems too light on the bike and run.  Just my thoughts...


+1, I am estimating a 3hr ride for my HIM.  I think there is one 2.5hr+ ride in the plan.  May be it was geared towards a much faster biker than me (22 mph to hit 2:33) but with my HIM swim going at 44-48 minutes and the ride being 3hrs I think I need some longer rides during training.
2010-02-05 8:49 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming- volume or time?
Not tring tho be harsh... I'm training with a first timer that is doing an HIM first time out, so I'm not judging...  I dig the aim high attitude.

I think you need to understand that it is a beginning HIM plan... not a beginners plan.  The pre-rec for that plan is to have some tri expirence, olympic or sprint.  So day 1 your behind.

The plan starts heavy because it expects that you have race expirence in all 3 events.
If you feel like the plan is starting out pretty aggressive, and that your already behind.  Its because it is agressive and you are behind.  Mainly because its a tough event and you chose it for your first. Is it a big deal... I don't think so.  But iyour starting spot is something you have to be honest about and aware of.  We all start in different spots.  If you can follow the plan you'll be fine.  I don't think it's an impossible feat.  You don't need to be fast you just need to be prepared, and that's what the 17-20 week plan is designed to do.  That said, there's a big difference between training/preparing, and learning.  The plan is an outline for training time.  If your still learning expect to take extra time to work on form and technique.


2010-02-05 9:27 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming- volume or time?

Ok, I am going to tell you what is going on with me.  I am in no way giving advice because I dont know squat about any of this.  I am as green as dollar bill at any of this

I am also doing a HIM as my first tri.  I will be doing it in May.   I started 5 weeks ago on a 20 week plan..  I had not swam very much at all in 10 years.  Never for distance and really never correctly.

I had been doing some cycling and running over the past year because I was close to 300 pounds and went on a weight loss plan..  I used the bike (stationary and road) a bunch and ran some.  I had not swam.  I lost 80 pounds and decided to kill myself with a HIM.  Hahaha.  Stupid right?

I joined a local gym that had a pool.  Went there the first week of my training period and got in the water.  I thought, "It takes 80 lengths of the pool to do 1.2 miles".  OK, if I can do 20 lengths now, I should be able to get them all in by week 20.  I took off swimming.  I made it down to the other end and back and almost drown.  I could not believe that I could not even swim 50 meters without gassing.   OH no, what do I do now.  The number one thing is, don't panic!!!

I added a few xtra swims in my routine and started working on it.  Some drills. Some laps, set some goals and I have been at it for 5 weeks now with 15 to go.   This week, I swam non stop for 1000 meters in 22 mins.   Not fast but I was not totally gassed. 

Now, I am doing endless laps at times and feeling like it is coming to me.  Once I get over that first hurdle, it just seems to be much easier.  I am in no way fast but I am not afraid of drowning in the Walt Disney pond anymore. 

Just keep working at the swimming.  I was afraid of it at first.  That distance seemed not possible.  But, you kind of get in a grove with it and it all of the sudden gets much easier.  I truly believe I could swim 2000 meters right now in less than an hour.  I will be working with a swim coach for a few hours next week to work on my stroke.  I hope to improve on my speed and keep working on my endurance.  I can feel myself gliding through the water much better now than three weeks ago.

Forme, I stick with some drills and keep working on the distance.  If its too much, I hit the showers.

2010-02-05 9:43 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming- volume or time?
2010-02-05 9:50 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming- volume or time?
I would recommend that you try to get the volume in, but only if you can keep your form.  If your form starts to really go, I would stop then because you're going to pick up bad habits moving forward.

Best of luck!
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