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Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk?
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 2010-06-23 7:39 AM |
Expert  2852     Pfafftown, NC |  Subject: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk?The org. that took photos at my recent tri is understandably pretty proud of their work. For about 10 images, they want $90 for a CD of my images. They also offer several packages of various sized prints. I sent her an email, stating that I was seeking a "compromise". I'd "like" for her to just email me the images. In return, I'd be willing to order a $50-ish "package" of prints. If I have 10 .jpeg images and someone is offering me an opportunity to make (gross) $50 off them.......with the other option being $0......I'm thinking I'd take the $50. Is this an unreasonable request? I "like" some of the images. I don't LOVE any of them. jeff |
| 2010-06-23 8:02 AM in reply to: #2938164 |
Extreme Veteran 615 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? I love this topic...race photos, are they worth it? Here's a link to a thread here on BT a while back that offers some good points to consider on both sides of the argument: http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=174855&start=1 Should get you started until others chime in... Edited by bmcgee 2010-06-23 8:03 AM |
| 2010-06-23 8:04 AM in reply to: #2938251 |
Extreme Veteran 821 | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? |
| 2010-06-23 8:07 AM in reply to: #2938164 |
Expert 614 Atlanta, GA | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? Being an avid photographer and frequenting "photography hangouts" one thing I've learned is that photography is cut throat. And yes photographers think A LOT of their work and as well they should sometimes. You'll find a million different opinions on the subject. The main argument is digital copies. If they sell you the digital rights they'll never hear from you again. You can print your own at that point and to some photographers that's a sticking point. On the flip side.. who orders 100 copies of pictures of themselves?? lol You have to remember though, photography isn't just sitting behind the camera. The images have to be processed, cropped, sharpened etc and that takes time, effort and know how. I think your offer is fair but I also don't think they'd accept it. If I took the pictures I probably would because that's not my full time job and it's just a hobby for me but I'd still process them for you and hopefully provide something you'd enjoy. If it's your first triathlon and you want a memory of it, $90 is steep but not terrible so I'd probably dish out the money. Sorry for the rambling... I'm going on no sleep and 1/2 a cup of coffee |
| 2010-06-23 8:17 AM in reply to: #2938164 |
Pro 3705 Vestavia Hills | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? Funny, I was just talking about this with some friends the other night ... we never order race day photos anymore. Having done dozens and dozens of races it just doesn't make sense to shell out $35-$90 for a couple of pictures. For big events - like USAT Nationals or an Iron distance, maybe ... but regular events, even an "A" race? No way. One of these days the photography companies are going to have to figure out how to lower the prices and still make a profit large enough to justify the expense of having photographers out on the course. |
| 2010-06-23 8:22 AM in reply to: #2938164 |
| Member 63 | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? For those of us that race a lot I suspect they make very little. But, for the first timers who think doing a sprint is the be all and end all of their lives, this is probably easy money for the photogs. |
| 2010-06-23 8:26 AM in reply to: #2938164 |
Champion 5376 PA | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? No, you are not being a jerk. You are offering them something based on worth. Worth is what you are willing to pay. If you are not willing to pay their price, then they have to accept that the pictures are not worth that to you. What you are doing is better than just telling them to pound sand. |
| 2010-06-23 8:27 AM in reply to: #2938164 |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? With all due respect....a sprint IS the be all and end all of some people's lives (at that time). And, there's not a thing wrong with that. That sprint IS their IM. Kudos to all of them (us). |
| 2010-06-23 8:28 AM in reply to: #2938164 |
| Extreme Veteran 1030 West Windsor, NJ | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? I agree on the price gauging. Hence why I think I only ever ordered maybe 1 pic. Your offer seems fair and reasonable. Nothing "jerky" about trying to work out a bargain. |
| 2010-06-23 8:29 AM in reply to: #2938164 |
Veteran 290 Atlanta, GA | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? A while back I had an idea that I thought would be nice to see offered. If I had the option of paying an additional $25 or so when I register for the race and pre-order my photos that way, I'd definitely consider it. Paying $60-70 for four or five pictures, no thanks. |
| 2010-06-23 8:31 AM in reply to: #2938164 |
Pro 5011 Twin Cities | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? Race photos are an optional service. If you want them, you buy them. If you don't feel that they are worth the price...don't buy them. Speak with your wallet. You may think they are overpriced, or that the market won't bear the cost...and you may be right. But if enough folks ARE willing to pay the price for that service, well, the photographer is running a business and has the right to charge what s/he's charging and make some money. |
| 2010-06-23 8:34 AM in reply to: #2938164 |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? I disagree with nothing you siad, mmrocker. I'm wondering - in what book is $0 is a better business model than $50. |
| 2010-06-23 8:35 AM in reply to: #2938331 |
Pro 6767 the Alabama part of Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? InsainoDwayno - 2010-06-23 9:29 AM A while back I had an idea that I thought would be nice to see offered. If I had the option of paying an additional $25 or so when I register for the race and pre-order my photos that way, I'd definitely consider it. Paying $60-70 for four or five pictures, no thanks. I'm not sure I would go for a pre-paid photo. Too many times I have gotten photos that I thought looked terrible (sometimes because of the angle, or the expression on my face - why do they ever even bother taking a picture of me coming out of the water?). I never buy a package but I have bought single shots. But I would prefer to see what I am getting first. |
| 2010-06-23 8:37 AM in reply to: #2938344 |
Member 5452 NC | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? Double. Edited by Goosedog 2010-06-23 8:37 AM |
| 2010-06-23 8:37 AM in reply to: #2938344 |
Member 5452 NC | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? nc452010 - 2010-06-23 9:34 AM I disagree with nothing you siad, mmrocker. I'm wondering - in what book is $0 is a better business model than $50. You're right, of course. So, ask politely and see what the photographer says. They may not want to strike a special deal with every single participant in every single event they photograph, but they might. What's the concern? Edited by Goosedog 2010-06-23 8:39 AM |
| 2010-06-23 8:43 AM in reply to: #2938344 |
Champion 7595 Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? nc452010 - 2010-06-23 9:34 AM I disagree with nothing you siad, mmrocker. I'm wondering - in what book is $0 is a better business model than $50. I don't think you're being a jerk at all -- you're telling them what you're willing to pay. If they are making money at their current price level, I'd be surprised if they accept the offer. They might very well perceive doing so as bad business for them. And they might be right: suddenly word gets around that you don't have to pay full price if you ask and they are overall making less money. |
| 2010-06-23 8:52 AM in reply to: #2938344 |
| Member 63 | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? nc452010 - 2010-06-23 8:34 AM I disagree with nothing you siad, mmrocker. I'm wondering - in what book is $0 is a better business model than $50. I'f I'm running a business and my customers pay the price I find reasonable, why would I accept less and ultimately end up hurting my business model in the long term? You don't like the product or price, don't buy it but don't expect the business owner to find what you offer to be reasonable just because you do. If I don't like the $30,000 car, why should I expect the dealer to accept $15,000 for it? There are many business models where $0 is better than another higher number, many, millions in fact. |
| 2010-06-23 8:52 AM in reply to: #2938164 |
Expert 934 FL | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? An interesting discussion. Personally, I would not pay $90 either. There is a price/package that the photographer needs to find that increases his/her quantity sold and thus increasing his/her customer base, make money and not have the clients feel like they are paying ridiculous prices. Photography has become much tougher for the professionals because anyone can go out and buy a $500 camera, use Google edit tool and produces pictures that most people are very happy with. That makes it tougher for the pro to differenciate themselves. 20 years ago it took years and years of expericence and alot of expensive equipment to produce good to really good pictures. That is not the case anymore. I am not saying that there is no value to a pro, there definitely is, it is just that technology has enabled the non-pro or amateur to get closer to what only a pro could do in the past. I say the offer you made is fair. I will often use the same logic especially when there is no hard cost involved. In your case, the photographer already put the time in and the only cost at this point is finding the pictures and sending them to you. $50 should be better than nothing but as the photographer, I would also kindly ask you not to tell all your friends about the same deal. |
| 2010-06-23 8:53 AM in reply to: #2938164 |
Expert 1053 Culpeper, VA | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? Are you being a jerk... maybe, other people need to make a living. I get the feeling they do not sell many pictures, so they have to up the price to make it profitable. Either that or they figure this is a sport that tends to have people with a little bit of money. Maybe not, but I've never bought a race photo. Never saw one I "had" to have and they are a little pricey at that. Thought I might buy some from a race I did where it took the photographer over a month to get pictures available... supposedly there would have been deep discounts. I believe pictures were still in the $30/ea. ball park and they weren't that great. Best tri pics I have are from when my 12 year old daughter snapped pics of me all over the place with our Canon SLR. I digress... In terms of someone I would buy pics from... there's a guy (killboy.com) that takes pictures along US129, a stretch of road known as the Dragon. He sells a full-res pic for $6 on a CD and will e-mail it to you for $7. His volume is huge though, so he can afford this type of business model. At this sort of price level, I would think if you put yourself into each competitor's mind somehow... card in the goodie bag sort of deal, you might sell something to each competitor. First pic is $10, additional 2 pics are $8, any more will be $5. Good pictures @ a price people would find hard to pass up would be the magic recipe IMO. |
| 2010-06-23 8:54 AM in reply to: #2938164 |
Pro 5361 | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? Personally- I like the word "proof" on my photos. |
| 2010-06-23 9:04 AM in reply to: #2938164 |
Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? Not a jerk IMO either. Total rip. I just bring my slr now and hand it to whoever might be there and throw it on action and just tell them to hold it down when I run by and it will snap burst shots. I get three times the pictures and they end up being better anyway.... It was funny when I did the Ragnar relay...probably took about a thousand pictures of my team running the different legs and let everyone use the camera...not to belittle the quality of the work but from the races I've done the shots aren't all that great anyway and certainly not worth it to me. Better off having a friend or family member snap some shots of you....heck for that price you can almost just buy a point and shoot and use that....10 races worth would be a decent SLR.... It's a business and they have to do what they have to do...but I'm not paying just as much for the pictures as it costs to do a sprint...so they'll have to find someone else to pay |
| 2010-06-23 9:09 AM in reply to: #2938318 |
Champion 8540 the colony texas | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? nc452010 - 2010-06-23 8:27 AM
Just curious do you barter for most things you want to buy based on what you believe is a fair price. when you fill up your car with gas to you tell them that $2.75/gallon is to much, but out of the kindness of your heart you will pay $1.50? after all that is better for them then you driving away and paying zero? I think some of the best tri pics I have are from friends just taking pics, not the event people. But like others have pointed out, they have processed the photo, tagged them so you can find them, advertised, web hosting, etc. all those misc. business expenses. If enough people are willing to pay the price they are asking for them to be a successful business why would they change all that for some guy that wants nearly a 50% discount, for no other reason than not wanting to pay the listed cost **however I think that is a large sum of money for the race pics, and personally I wouldnt' pay that amount, I"d pay off someone with the promise of beer later and let them take pics of me during the race |
| 2010-06-23 9:10 AM in reply to: #2938164 |
| Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? Seems fair to me, and heck it never hurts to ask/deal on anything. Worst that can happen is they say no. If they do say no you might give them a week or so and make the offer again. |
| 2010-06-23 9:25 AM in reply to: #2938396 |
Extreme Veteran 615 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? aquageek - 2010-06-23 8:52 AM nc452010 - 2010-06-23 8:34 AM I disagree with nothing you siad, mmrocker. I'm wondering - in what book is $0 is a better business model than $50. I'f I'm running a business and my customers pay the price I find reasonable, why would I accept less and ultimately end up hurting my business model in the long term? You don't like the product or price, don't buy it but don't expect the business owner to find what you offer to be reasonable just because you do. If I don't like the $30,000 car, why should I expect the dealer to accept $15,000 for it? There are many business models where $0 is better than another higher number, many, millions in fact. If I knew there was a greater than 0% chance they would accept my $15,000 offer...I would certainly offer it up! Worst case scenario, they say no...best case, they accept and you save $15,000! I see no problem with offering what you think it's worth. A wise man once told me that something is worth whatever someone is willing to pay (no more, no less). If you are willing to pay $50 then that is exactly what they are worth...not a penny more. |
 2010-06-23 9:29 AM in reply to: #2938451 |
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