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2010-10-26 1:40 PM

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Subject: Jorge's Winter Cycling Program---How Much Faster?
If you were to do Jorge's winter cycling program religiously how much faster would one expect to get?  For example, I started cycling this past May and the 2 races I participated in I averaged 21 mph for the first race (14.8 miles) and just over 20 mph for the second race(17.2 miles).  Can I increase my speed significantly doing his program?  I would like to get faster on the bike and I am hoping this program will help me get there.


2010-10-26 1:45 PM
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Champion
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Subject: RE: Jorge's Winter Cycling Program---How Much Faster?
A quality bike specific program, like what Jorge does, will likely be of benefit. How much depends on how hard you work.

Edited by bryancd 2010-10-26 1:45 PM
2010-10-26 1:54 PM
in reply to: #3173214

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Jorge's Winter Cycling Program---How Much Faster?
As Bryan alluded to, it's difficult to be specific on how much improvement an individual will see.  Speed is a tough way to measure improvement and make comparisons anyway. 

Bottom line is that if you work hard and accept the pain that it takes to make the improvements, you'll be able to go into next season a much better cyclist.  That means faster bike splits and better runs. 

Also, spend the winter researching basic aerodynamics and other bike details like tire/tube selection.  Those details can be worth an extra 1-2 mph by themselves. 
2010-10-26 1:58 PM
in reply to: #3173266

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Jorge's Winter Cycling Program---How Much Faster?
AndrewMT - 2010-10-26 1:54 PM As Bryan alluded to, it's difficult to be specific on how much improvement an individual will see.  Speed is a tough way to measure improvement and make comparisons anyway. 

Bottom line is that if you work hard and accept the pain that it takes to make the improvements, you'll be able to go into next season a much better cyclist.  That means faster bike splits and better runs. 

Also, spend the winter researching basic aerodynamics and other bike details like tire/tube selection.  Those details can be worth an extra 1-2 mph by themselves. 


Its worth exactly a .74556778 mph increase in my speed....distance and aerodynamics are irrelevant.
2010-10-26 2:00 PM
in reply to: #3173214

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Jorge's Winter Cycling Program---How Much Faster?
birdog41 - 2010-10-26 2:40 PM If you were to do Jorge's winter cycling program religiously how much faster would one expect to get?  For example, I started cycling this past May and the 2 races I participated in I averaged 21 mph for the first race (14.8 miles) and just over 20 mph for the second race(17.2 miles).  Can I increase my speed significantly doing his program?  I would like to get faster on the bike and I am hoping this program will help me get there.


Speed is a horrible parameter to guage anything off of.  If you're doing a flat course vice a hilly one, into a headwind or a tail wind, speed will vary a ton.

Effort and the power it generates is what you want to improve.  And that will improve a lot by doing his program.
2010-10-26 2:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Jorge's Winter Cycling Program---How Much Faster?
Marvarnett - 2010-10-26 2:00 PM
birdog41 - 2010-10-26 2:40 PM If you were to do Jorge's winter cycling program religiously how much faster would one expect to get?  For example, I started cycling this past May and the 2 races I participated in I averaged 21 mph for the first race (14.8 miles) and just over 20 mph for the second race(17.2 miles).  Can I increase my speed significantly doing his program?  I would like to get faster on the bike and I am hoping this program will help me get there.


Speed is a horrible parameter to guage anything off of.  If you're doing a flat course vice a hilly one, into a headwind or a tail wind, speed will vary a ton.

Effort and the power it generates is what you want to improve.  And that will improve a lot by doing his program.


And cross-wind, and how sick you may be, and if on a closed blacktop road versus a wooded trail, and if it's raining versus dry as the Sahara, and, and, oh, you know, Dan.


2010-10-26 2:20 PM
in reply to: #3173214

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Subject: RE: Jorge's Winter Cycling Program---How Much Faster?
birdog41 - 2010-10-26 2:40 PM If you were to do Jorge's winter cycling program religiously how much faster would one expect to get?  For example, I started cycling this past May and the 2 races I participated in I averaged 21 mph for the first race (14.8 miles) and just over 20 mph for the second race(17.2 miles).  Can I increase my speed significantly doing his program?  I would like to get faster on the bike and I am hoping this program will help me get there.


Just curious... what kind of elevation increases were you seeing in those two races?  I would love to see a 20 mph average.
2010-10-26 3:48 PM
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Subject: RE: Jorge's Winter Cycling Program---How Much Faster?
I did the plan last year.  As others said, speed is more or less irrelevant.  I don't have a power meter.  But I can say that my bike splits in races (a slightly better measure than speed, but admittedly with its own problems) have gone from MOP to FOP.  I credit doing the plan for part of that.
2010-10-26 4:14 PM
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Coach
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Subject: RE: Jorge's Winter Cycling Program---How Much Faster?
Last year, people shared their experience and the performance improvements ranged from ~7 to ~25% though the avg was around 10-15% which is a reasonable goal for most within the duration of the plan. Of course YMMV based on your current fitness level and if you follow the entire program.

As a particular example, one of my athletes has improved her critical power from 210-215w to 235-240w in 12 weeks (~9% increase) and gone from 3.66 W/Kg to 4.12 W/Kg (12% increase). That would be around ~0.9 mph faster on a flat 40K TT under optimal conditions (using defaults settings at analytical cycling). FWIW, she avg 21.87mph for 56mi at a 70.3 back in mid Aug, with a solid run and made the podium. The plan is not exactly the same as the winter plan (hers is more integrative and 100%personalized) but it follows the same principles.

The cycling program, same as my coaching approach is nothing special really; IMO it is a common sense approach based on basic physiology and training concepts. The key for success of my athletes (or those following the cycling plan) is nothing more than willingness to do the work, and consistent training. That plan is based on how I approach tri coaching, it is not the only nor the best way; it is just my way.

For this year, I am going to build a Google doc excel sheet for people to enter their testing results and track their improvements which I plan to leave up on my blog for anyone to see how people improve with it...

Edited by JorgeM 2010-10-26 4:16 PM
2010-10-26 4:18 PM
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Subject: RE: Jorge's Winter Cycling Program---How Much Faster?
Jorge, you are awesome!  Thank you so much!
2010-10-26 5:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Jorge's Winter Cycling Program---How Much Faster?
Thanks for all your input....and thanks as always Jorge!  I plan on working hard this winter to improve my cycling.


2010-10-27 6:36 AM
in reply to: #3173683

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Subject: RE: Jorge's Winter Cycling Program---How Much Faster?
JorgeM - 2010-10-26 5:14 PM Last year, people shared their experience and the performance improvements ranged from ~7 to ~25% though the avg was around 10-15% which is a reasonable goal for most within the duration of the plan. Of course YMMV based on your current fitness level and if you follow the entire program.

As a particular example, one of my athletes has improved her critical power from 210-215w to 235-240w in 12 weeks (~9% increase) and gone from 3.66 W/Kg to 4.12 W/Kg (12% increase). That would be around ~0.9 mph faster on a flat 40K TT under optimal conditions (using defaults settings at analytical cycling). FWIW, she avg 21.87mph for 56mi at a 70.3 back in mid Aug, with a solid run and made the podium. The plan is not exactly the same as the winter plan (hers is more integrative and 100%personalized) but it follows the same principles.

The cycling program, same as my coaching approach is nothing special really; IMO it is a common sense approach based on basic physiology and training concepts. The key for success of my athletes (or those following the cycling plan) is nothing more than willingness to do the work, and consistent training. That plan is based on how I approach tri coaching, it is not the only nor the best way; it is just my way.

For this year, I am going to build a Google doc excel sheet for people to enter their testing results and track their improvements which I plan to leave up on my blog for anyone to see how people improve with it...


Those are some damn impressive gains, and also goes to show how tough it is to improve your times on the road... ouch 9% power increase for <5 minutes on an OLY bike split.
2010-10-27 7:36 AM
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Subject: RE: Jorge's Winter Cycling Program---How Much Faster?
Bioteknik - 2010-10-27 7:36 AM


Those are some damn impressive gains, and also goes to show how tough it is to improve your times on the road... ouch 9% power increase for <5 minutes on an OLY bike split.


I think that it is a pretty good increase on the road, though I guess it depends on what one takes to be 'significant'.  At my last Olympic race I averaged 23.8.  A .9 increase in speed would have pushed me from 21st (bike split overall, out of 800) to 12th.  I'd take that!
2010-10-27 8:02 AM
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Subject: RE: Jorge's Winter Cycling Program---How Much Faster?
Where is Jorge's Winter Cycling Program?
2010-10-27 8:19 AM
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Elite
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Subject: RE: Jorge's Winter Cycling Program---How Much Faster?
mikfinne - 2010-10-27 10:02 AM Where is Jorge's Winter Cycling Program?


Right here
2010-10-27 8:28 AM
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Subject: RE: Jorge's Winter Cycling Program---How Much Faster?


2010-10-27 10:10 AM
in reply to: #3173351

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Subject: RE: Jorge's Winter Cycling Program---How Much Faster?
To Pector55,

The first race had an elevation of:

Min- 584
Max- 709
ascent- 187
descent- -187

Second race was:

Min- 623
Max- 840
ascent- 289
descent- -302
2010-10-27 10:13 AM
in reply to: #3173266

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Jorge's Winter Cycling Program---How Much Faster?
AndrewMT - 2010-10-26 1:54 PM As Bryan alluded to, it's difficult to be specific on how much improvement an individual will see.  Speed is a tough way to measure improvement and make comparisons anyway. 

Bottom line is that if you work hard and accept the pain that it takes to make the improvements, you'll be able to go into next season a much better cyclist.  That means faster bike splits and better runs. 

Also, spend the winter researching basic aerodynamics and other bike details like tire/tube selection.  Those details can be worth an extra 1-2 mph by themselves


plus if you happen to drop a few pounds (not saying you are overweight) that will have a huge effect.  I'm shooting for a decent amount of weight loss over the program (20lbs). increase FTP with a lower weight
2010-10-27 10:16 AM
in reply to: #3174963

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Jorge's Winter Cycling Program---How Much Faster?
Gaarryy - 2010-10-27 10:13 AM
AndrewMT - 2010-10-26 1:54 PM As Bryan alluded to, it's difficult to be specific on how much improvement an individual will see.  Speed is a tough way to measure improvement and make comparisons anyway. 

Bottom line is that if you work hard and accept the pain that it takes to make the improvements, you'll be able to go into next season a much better cyclist.  That means faster bike splits and better runs. 

Also, spend the winter researching basic aerodynamics and other bike details like tire/tube selection.  Those details can be worth an extra 1-2 mph by themselves


plus if you happen to drop a few pounds (not saying you are overweight) that will have a huge effect.  I'm shooting for a decent amount of weight loss over the program (20lbs). increase FTP with a lower weight


I'd have to amputate a limb or two to lose any weight...
2010-10-27 12:03 PM
in reply to: #3173214

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Subject: RE: Jorge's Winter Cycling Program---How Much Faster?
Based on my experience ~1.5-2mph.
I never have been faster than 20.9 (15.3mi flat) & 20.6 mph (15.9mi flat with 4 bridges) for the two local Sprints I've been doing for several years now.  This year I went 22.4 and 22.8 mph respectively.

My power went up from 200 on the initial test to 226 for the 3rd test doing the first 8 or so weeks of the V2 program.  Then I did the last 5 or so weeks of the V2 program this Sept before the Fall Sprint and had a great ride and a good run.  Should have tested again before the Sprint to see where the power was at.
2010-10-27 12:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Jorge's Winter Cycling Program---How Much Faster?
AndrewMT - 2010-10-26 1:54 PM Also, spend the winter researching basic aerodynamics and other bike details like tire/tube selection.  Those details can be worth an extra 1-2 mph by themselves. 


So what tire/tube/wheel are you running Andrew?


2010-10-27 2:32 PM
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Coach
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Subject: RE: Jorge's Winter Cycling Program---How Much Faster?
Just as FYI -  I consolidated the info about the cycling plan v3.0 on my blogs on a pdf file and can be download it.

I also created a Google doc spreadsheet to track improvements during the plan. For details go to my blog or check the thread on the challenge forum.
2010-10-27 2:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Jorge's Winter Cycling Program---How Much Faster?
AndrewMT - 2010-10-27 10:16 AM
Gaarryy - 2010-10-27 10:13 AM
AndrewMT - 2010-10-26 1:54 PM As Bryan alluded to, it's difficult to be specific on how much improvement an individual will see.  Speed is a tough way to measure improvement and make comparisons anyway. 

Bottom line is that if you work hard and accept the pain that it takes to make the improvements, you'll be able to go into next season a much better cyclist.  That means faster bike splits and better runs. 

Also, spend the winter researching basic aerodynamics and other bike details like tire/tube selection.  Those details can be worth an extra 1-2 mph by themselves


plus if you happen to drop a few pounds (not saying you are overweight) that will have a huge effect.  I'm shooting for a decent amount of weight loss over the program (20lbs). increase FTP with a lower weight


I'd have to amputate a limb or two to lose any weight...


don't be a slacker... lose the fingers and toes... 
2010-10-27 6:27 PM
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Subject: RE: Jorge's Winter Cycling Program---How Much Faster?
In the interest of full disclosure, I followed the program pretty closely last year (except for the optional 4th ride each week). I did it based on HR so no power numbers to compare but on my first ride outside after the winter I did a known route that I had done 4X in the previous summer. I was in exactly the same place as before the winter, so no appreciable gains, but nothing lost either. I really enjoyed the program and it kicked my butt 3X/week. I undoubtedly would have taken a little time to get back up to speed if I had not done it. However, I didn't see the big gains that others have posted. But still, I was happy that, doing 3 X 45-60 minutes a week, I could stay in the same place as after a fairly intense summer (but I was a little sad that I didn't get faster!). Overall, I think it is one of the most generous things an online coach could offer to a bunch of random people on the web. Thanks Jorge!
2010-10-27 10:42 PM
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Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: Jorge's Winter Cycling Program---How Much Faster?
does jorge reccomend against training in other sports during the program?  Atleast just to maintain performance in those sports?
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