For those who don't do flip turns (Page 2)

lisac957 - 2011-04-07 1:01 PM

bryancd - 2011-04-07 2:51 PM

jeffdav - 2011-04-07 1:43 PM x2 What's the point?

Well, in general would it be a good idea to train to ride like a cyclist? Or perhaps train to run like a runner? Maybe then it's good practice to train to swim like a swimmer. Just a thought.

I see what you're saying, however...
For someone who, say, currently has no clue how to flip turn... my opinion is that they'd get a better return on their time invested by focusing on activities that are more related to the ultimate goal of an outdoor triathlon (if that's what they are training for). For example: swim form, open water swimming, sighting, drafting, conquering lake monsters, etc.

 

I started training last year doing open turns.  After reading the monthly recurring threads on this topic, I started doing flip turns.  Now, I admit this is purely anecdotal, but I have dropped from 1:53/100 down to 1:39/100 in my 1,500 scy time trials in two months.  Is this based entirely on flip turns, no.  Do flip turns take time off your laps, probably.  Do flip turns help you get more comfortable in the water, I think most definitely.  Now for conquering lake monsters, I carry a spear gun for just such an occasion.

I consider flip turns to be my Ab workout for that night. Roughly equal to 70 good situps.

Other than that, I probably only do them because it's what I know from HS swimming. As far as tri training is concerned, take it or leave it - as long as you're not using the turn as a rest opportunity.

When doing long swims I like doing flip turns using an underwater dolphin kick which lets me get in a little extra core work.  Also, I've found that focusing on getting into the streamlined position off the wall (arms extended etc.) it's actually helped me to keep a good line when starting my stroke.  I sincerely think this has helped my body position and ultimately my stroke.

But to your point a triathlete buddy of mine doesn't do them either, hasn't for years, but is an FOP swimmer around here.  No big deal really.  Put flip turns on your "Nice to have" list and focus on your "Have to have" list.

My contention is always that there is no reason to not learn them, but plenty of reasons to learn them that can all be summed up as "they make you a better swimmer".  AND, it takes zero time to learn them, because you don't have to practice them, you just need to start doing them every time you come to a wall during a workout.  They will be completely ugly at first, you will have some failed attempts, you will miss the wall completely, you may hit the wall, and may swallow some water, but after doing hundreds of them, they will improve.  After doing thousands of them, you will be good at them.  After doing 10's of thousands of them, you will be a master at them.

If you are dead set on not doing them, at least do yourself a favor, and learn to do a good open turn so you don't lose more time than necessary if you do a race with a pool swim, plus it helps keep things flowing if you need to share a lane with someone during training.  They are really easy.  It's basically the same for fly, breast, or a front crawl.  Here's a good video that shows a lot of different types of turns (even though it's not in English):  Turns Video

I'm mixed on flip turns.  I used to do them to get that extra second.  Then I stopped and started doing open turns, just because.  After 1000's of Open turns I'm really really good at them.  Neither Open or Flip turns give an advantage in OWS.  Some say flip turns teach you body awareness upside down and body awareness is a useful skill turning at buoy's. 

I'm going to practice both just to keep the pool swim interesting until I can get into the lake.

I do open turns exclusively. Here's why:

I spent a week one summer with a coach learning to flip. Every, and I mean EVERY, flip resulted in that little bit of residual water in my nose being pushed into my sinuses. No matter how hard I blew out the pipes before flipping, I still got one heck of a nasal douche. It would make my eyes water and burned like crazy. Then after smacking my ankle on the edge of the pool, I decided I was done. 

So I worked hard on my open turn. In my masters class, there's not a single person that can beat me on a turn. I really do the reverse of a flip, doing things above water rather than under. I grab the wall at the same time pulling my knees tight against my chest. Then rotate and fire off the wall into a deep dive. I always get beyond the ropes on a turn. And if I really try, I can get mid pool.

So, while it might work for others, flipping doesn't work for me and I see no reason to spend any time and energy trying to make it work.

And for those who choose not to, they could easily reverse this statement and ask the same of you.

The best reason for doing flip turns is you're the last person who gets asked to share a lane. When the lanes all have one person in them and next person arrives at the pool, they'll try to get the attention of an open turner before they get the attention of a flip turner.

But as was noted, and is the thread title, this discussion is for people who don't do flip turns.

running2far - 2011-04-07 4:53 PM Off to masters, where I'll flip turn and gasp swim some fly, back, and breast too. I'll probably turn into a pumpkin and have no idea what to do when I swim in a lake. No idea how to make that red font and don't want to learn cause it doesn't make me a better poster

Freaking brilliant

Ditch her.

Uuuuuuuuuummmmm, have you seen the pictures?

BTW, thanks for the thread OP.  As a newbie to tri's I mostly do open turns because flip turns kill my endurance due to the missed breath.  I watched the youtube video posted earlier and realized i was doing my open turns all wrong.  I just got back from the pool and shaved a ton of time off my laps doing open turns the right way.

Thanks,