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2005-09-06 12:09 PM
in reply to: #241416

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Expert
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Flower Mound, TX
Subject: RE: My HIM nutrition plan
PirateGirl,

IronManLive has a nice collection of articles here.  In terms of calories, keep in mind that, when racing, your body can only absorb so many cals/hr (I've seen anywhere from 250-400+ cals/hr depending on body weight and other factors).  Do searches, read some articles, get a starting point, but most of all practice different nutritional strategies in training, so that you'll know what works for you come race day.

-David


2005-09-06 12:09 PM
in reply to: #241416

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Coach
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Boston, MA
Subject: RE: My HIM nutrition plan
PirateGirl - 2005-09-06 11:49 AM

I'm starting to try to figure out my nutrition plan for my 1st HIM, which is 2 months away.  Anybody know of any good articles that offer advice on how to figure out how many cals total and cals/hr are needed for each leg?  I'm just looking for a good starting point as I haven't a clue.

Thanks!

http://www.e-caps.com/downloads/fuelinghandbook.pdf

This link has great info (of course they advertise their products in every segment, but just ignore it)

2005-09-06 12:22 PM
in reply to: #241419

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Coach
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Boston, MA
Subject: RE: My HIM nutrition plan

dgillen - 2005-09-06 11:51 AM FWIW, I'm shooting for about 3 hrs on the bike, and I'm hoping to drink close 150 oz of Gatorade on the bike!  I've computed my sweat rate multiple times on the bike and run, and I lose about 64 oz/hr on the bike and almost 80oz/hr on the run in the hot & humid conditions here in TX.  So I need to drink a ton on the bike, so I don't lose too much weight before I start the run.  I can only stomach about 30 oz/hr on the run at race intensities.

I'm wearing a 100oz CamelBak on the bike, which should last me about 2 hrs and then I'm planning on picking up bottles at the exchange for the last bike hour.  I'll also take about 3 Endurolyte tablets every hour. 

-David

have you tried this before??? Even on hard conditions that sounds A LOT of fluids. here is a segment I found online:

"According to nutrition expert Bill Misner, Ph.D., “The endurance exercise outcome is to postpone fatigue, not replace all the fuel, fluids, and electrolytes lost during the event. It can’t be done, though many of us have tried.” In other words, our hydration goal is not to replace water pint-for-pint, but to support natural stores by consuming as much as we can adequately process during exercise. At the most, you can absorb about one liter (about 34 fluid ounces) of water per hour, but only under the most extreme heat and humidity. Most of the time you can only absorb about half that amount, even though it won’t fully replace your loss. Repeated intake of one liter (about 34 fluid ounces) per hour will ultimately do you more harm than good."

2005-09-06 12:39 PM
in reply to: #241419

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Champion
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Evergreen, Colorado
Subject: RE: My HIM nutrition plan

It's TX.  It's hot.  I'm a girl and I go through over 50oz an hour on a hot day here.  Never tracked it by weight, but I can't go more than 20 miles without needing a water refill.

I'm running Prairieman this weekend too!  See you Sunday!  PM me if you want to meet up with some BT'ers for dinner on Saturday.....

2005-09-06 12:49 PM
in reply to: #241414

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Pro
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Virginia Beach, VA
Subject: RE: My HIM nutrition plan
Oh yeah...forgotr about that. Here is Mike's initial response, my follow-up , and his follow-up


I think you have to be a gold member to view the link.



MIKE-
Ok - I don't have much experience with caffeine, but I have used a fewstarbucks expressos successfully, and I don't drink coffee, so I can'tcomment much on that.

No need to carbo load 2 days out. Eat 8-10g of CHO per kg of bw. Thisis the Olympic Training Center protocol for endurance athletes. Itworks.

Questions: why so many calories the morning of the race and so close to the race?
Read this: http://www.e-caps.com/downloads/fuelinghandbook.pdf

Try eating 3 hours before. If you load up the day before there is noneed to take in 660 calories of CHO the morining of the race PLUS thePRO. Yikes, I am stuffed just thinking about that. I weigh 75kg andtook in 500 calories max before IM LP this year and never felt a lossof energy - so I think 620 cals may doom you, it may not, but I wouldbe safe and aviod all that...

Bike cals look good.

I am not sure you can take in that many cals on the run per hour andstill run like you should. My experience as a coach and athlete hasbeen that 100-150 per hour is about the max your stomach can handlewithout shutting down - and I am talking coke and water. I know somepeople like gels and gatorade, and that works too. I don't like all thesugar of that combo - make sure you bring endurolytes with you - justin case.

Alternating water/g-ade is fine as long as you don't bonk - not sureyou want 600 cals of g-ade every other station as that is what it wouldamount to with your plan....

Thoughts?

JOEL-
The specifics on caffeine I picked up from the article Nancy Clark wrote: Caffeine and Athletes

Carb loading 2 days out - this came from an article from Dave Scott in Triathlete Mag: Dave Scott's top five race-day nutritional tips. He suggested 6-7g of carbs per kg of body weight for 2 days out when"your body is preparing for the stresses of the race, which places anincreased emotional, pshychological and physical demand on your body." So you're suggesting 600-750g (I'm 75kg) of carbs the day before. Is there any potential risk in bumping my intake some 2 days out also?

My race-day breakfast is based on article on Active.com by the American Running Association: For distance workouts, count carbs in. They said that , ideally, you should consume 2g of carbs per lb of bodyweight four hours before the event. My race starts at 7am so I figuredI'd wake up by around 4:30-5am which would give me about 2 hours prerace which cuts my intake down to 1g per lb...about 165g. I figured a4:1 ratio of cho:pro which is where the 40g of pro came from. I'mhappy to reduce my morning intake if you think it's a wise move...100gcarbs maybe? I'm thinking a couple bananas, and something a littlemore solid like a Cliff Bar along with water.

Run nutrition - I'mvery happy to ditch the Gatorade and just stick with water and 3 Accelgels...that will give me ~270 calories over 1:30-1:40. If I bonk atthat point in the race then it is likely because of something I didwrong on the bike. I'll definitely bring 4 Endurolyte caps along onthe run. Is it too late to take them if I start to feel my legscramping?

MIKE-
Thanks, I'll check those articles out!

I don't 'think' there is a risk in loading up 2 days before, I justdon't think it will help. But try it, and the worst thing will be thatyou put a few LBS of water weight on. When I did the 10g per kg load (2x now successfully)I can tell you that I had a big container of natural juice - it waslike grape based or something. The apple based has too much fiber andwill ruin your day - so watch what you take in terms of carbs. I don'tthink I ate any bread, just all fruit and juices.

If your race starts at 7AM, I would try to be DONE eating by 4AM. WhatI have done is woken up at 3:45, with my bottle of carb drink by thebed and 2 bananas. I eat/drink and go back to sleep. After I get up forgood, I just sip some water of g-ade. I think two hours is too close.Read that Hammer Nutrition link I sent you - there is some great infoin there. I would say 100-125g of CHO pre-race is fine. We are aboutthe same bw, so you should be good.

I think the g-ade has one important thing you need which iselectrolytes - but so do the e-caps too - this is a tough call. As muchas I don't like g-ade I take it during a race. I usually take 1-2 cupsper aid station with water - yes, sometimes 3 cups every aid station ifit's hot. You shouldn't bonk with the CHO loading protocol. I don'tthink I had more than 20 cups of g-ade at IMLP and I didn't bonk onebit. You should be AOK. Pacing correctly is important still, but if youdo that, you shouldn't bonk. it's never too late to take theendurolytes - I would take a bunch - I think I usually take one everyfew miles - (5)but I still carry more than I need in case I drop some OR if i getcramping, I will eat 2-3 on the spot to help, and usually they workpretty fast. Make sure there is water in your stomach when you takethem, that way they get into your bloodstream faster.

I think you are ready to go. These details are important, but you havedone the training, now you just need to stick with your plan andexecute it. :-)
2005-09-06 1:09 PM
in reply to: #241210

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Champion
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Evergreen, Colorado
Subject: RE: My HIM nutrition plan

Didn't mean to offend anyone.  I just think there is a point where everybody thinks too hard about this stuff.  Nutrition should be simple.  The simpler you keep it, the easier it is to make the plan work.  If it gets all convoluted with special drinks, gels, etc. and you forget or lose any of your 'special stuff' then you are SOL.  It's hard to imagine, but it wasn't all that many years ago that people actually did these sporting events without any of this extra gucci nutrition stuff...



2005-09-06 2:52 PM
in reply to: #241070

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Master
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Chicago
Subject: RE: My HIM nutrition plan

Thanks for posting guy. I enjoyed reading your plan.

I tend to bonk on the bike so I am overly anxious about my nutrition plans. I sweat like a freakin' pig and my face tastes like a pretzel when I'm done exercising for more than three hours. So my nutrition is heavy on salt. Here's my 1/2IM plan.

Breakfast - about two and half hours prior to the race at 5:00 a.m. - normal of yogurt, bananna, grapes, juice and whole wheat muffin.

Hour out - water and 1/4 clif bar and E-cap.

Bike - 32 oz Camelback with water and Accelerade, plus two 20 oz bottles of Gatorade and Accelerade mix. Sweet but I love it. I'm taking an E-cap or straight salt tablet every hour. 1/2 way point two handfuls of sweet and salty trail mix.

Run - three gels - one at mile three, one at turn around and one three miles out at mile 10. Plus whatever I can get at each aid station. Haven't decided on my fuel belt whether to carry it. On my long runs I haven't used it it's just extra weight. The Gels do a world of good for me. Instant energy. I run so slow that I've never really bonked on the run so dehydration hasn't really been an issue. But hey we'll see.

That's about it. Time goals:

Swim - 40 minutes

Bike - 4 hours

Run - 3 hours

I know not really fast but unlike you guys just finishing is going to satisfy me. I'm most worried about the bike as there is a 4 hour cut off. So I really have to be quicking than that.

God Bless all of you who are racing and can't wait to read your RR's.

2005-09-06 4:25 PM
in reply to: #241438

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Elite
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Tucson, AZ
Subject: RE: My HIM nutrition plan
amiine - 2005-09-06 9:09 AM

http://www.e-caps.com/downloads/fuelinghandbook.pdf

This link has great info (of course they advertise their products in every segment, but just ignore it)

Wow!  That does have great info!  I printed it out so that I can highlight it and make notes.

2005-09-06 5:13 PM
in reply to: #241070

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8763
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Boulder, Colorado
Subject: RE: My HIM nutrition plan
I just saw this thread so I have a few comments:

1 - this plan is really set for Joel - it's what HE has tried and it works for him.
2 - personally, I don't get that detailed with a plan. I know how many calories I need per hour, and I know how many scoops go into each water bottle before the race. I know I need to take Endurolytes on the bike and run, and I don't take gel. For ME, it's as simple as possible. That does not mean one way is right or wrong, we are all different, and I have athletes that would make Joel's plan look like a simple one, trust me. We all need to different degrees of order. Some more than others..right Joel? :-)
3 - Someone mentioned E-Caps - I've been sponsored by them for years. You can ignore the comments about the products in the Fueling handbook - that annoyed me too - BUT, if you want the best products out there and you can stomach the taste, there is nothing better.
4 - I have a buddy you runs Ultras - you know 50, 100 mile running races, he makes it on water and endurolytes - so some people just like water and do do it all on that alone.
5 - whatever you folks do for 1/2 IM, OD, IM whatever, PLEASE try it in training first!

I think that's all the points I wanted to hit on. Good luck everyone who is racing! Anyone going to KC for the 1/2 IM Champs?
2005-09-06 6:48 PM
in reply to: #241070

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Greenville, NC
Subject: RE: My HIM nutrition plan
Funny how we are all so different. I couldn't race that long on an empty stomach. I need to eat breakfast and I mean BREAKFAST. Bowl of oatmeal, banana, yogurt cup, toast, water. About 4-5 am for a 7:30am start. I drink 20oz of cytomax as I wonder around getting ready pre-race. Then I sip appropriate volume of cytomax or similar on the bike, a gel chased with water on the run. And that's for OLy. I can eat like a horse on the bike, it doesn't bother me as long as I have it down at least 2 hrs before the run. but I can not run if I feel hungry. I haven't done a HIM yet but my long workouts are over 4 hrs and I need either gel or powerbar to get through.
2005-09-06 7:28 PM
in reply to: #241070

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Elite
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Racine, WI
Subject: RE: My HIM nutrition plan

Wow!  Just the thought of eating that much in the morning makes my stomach gurgle...race or no race!

I actally seem to do better undereating rather than overeating, and if I stick to fluids and gels.



2005-09-06 8:11 PM
in reply to: #241070

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Pro
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Subject: RE: My HIM nutrition plan
HOLY GEEZ! I THOUGHT ABOUT HAVING COFFEE BEFORE MY RACE! I AM IN TROUBLE!
2005-09-06 11:09 PM
in reply to: #241070

Extreme Veteran
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San Clemente, California
Subject: RE: My HIM nutrition plan
Yeah, I have a very loose nutrition plan and also need to have solid food in my stomach when I'm hungry. My long bricks I eat a Balance Bar on the bike along with a gel and water and Gatorade Endurance. I make sure to finish off the Gatorade with about 3 miles to go on the bike. Then, on the run, I carry a Fuel Belt with Gatorade and water and also eat a couple of gels on the run. We'll see how it works in 10 days!
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