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2005-11-29 1:07 PM

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Subject: Weight Loss and swim speed
Just got back from my Masters class and I have a question. I know that losing weight helps tremendously to increase the running pace. How much does losing weight help in increasing your swimming pace. i know good form is key and all that, but all being equal, what about losing a few pounds?


2005-11-29 1:10 PM
in reply to: #294054

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Expert
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Subject: RE: Weight Loss and swim speed
Good question. If anyone says that losing weight does help to increase swim speed they had better be prepared to contend with the argument that seals and sea lions provide.
2005-11-29 1:13 PM
in reply to: #294054

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Cycling Guru
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Subject: RE: Weight Loss and swim speed
Any physical event has to contend with the power to weight issue ...... but swimming is more about efficiency and hydrodynamics. So that is a very good question and it will be interesting to hear the answers!
2005-11-29 1:13 PM
in reply to: #294056

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Giver
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Subject: RE: Weight Loss and swim speed
Body mass doesn't play a huge roll in swimming speed, and some extra fat probably helps slower/less-efficient  swimmers maintain better body position, the same way a wetsuit does. Don't know of any empirical data to support this, though.

Shaved_Wookie - 2005-11-29 1:10 PMGood question. If anyone says that losing weight does help to increase swim speed they had better be prepared to contend with the argument that seals and sea lions provide.
2005-11-29 1:27 PM
in reply to: #294054

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Resident Curmudgeon
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Subject: RE: Weight Loss and swim speed
Only when swimming uphill.
2005-11-29 1:33 PM
in reply to: #294054

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Expert
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Subject: RE: Weight Loss and swim speed

I was just thinking about this topic during my workout today.  As run4yrlf mentioned, fat should provide a benefit through buoyancy.  But , Phelps, Thorpe, et al are build like toothpicks.  It may be that fat provides little to no benefit when racing shorter distances at high speed, as the water restistance provides lift, but becomes more of a benefit when the pace slows during longer events.  This, of course, is irrelevant if you're like run4yrlf, and race long distances at high speed Tongue out

And seals and sea lions may need fat for insulation in cold water rather than it being a benefit to their swimming.



2005-11-29 1:34 PM
in reply to: #294054

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Elite
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Muskego, WI
Subject: RE: Weight Loss and swim speed
Not scientific...observation only. I am of the opinion that fat floats. A larger person with otherwise good strength will maintain body position more easily. I do not believe this is the case for +/- 5 or 10 lbs. though. The larger people I've seen kick butt in the pool are REALLY LARGE.
2005-11-29 1:36 PM
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Champion
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Subject: RE: Weight Loss and swim speed
ya, they are toothpicks but have impeccable form. so we fat beginner swimmers need to either a) stay fat, or b) perfect our form. tough choice, eh?
2005-11-29 1:37 PM
in reply to: #294054

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Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: Weight Loss and swim speed
But if you have a lot of extra weight, won't you be bulkier? That won't help gliding through the water.
2005-11-29 1:42 PM
in reply to: #294085

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Giver
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Subject: RE: Weight Loss and swim speed
Very fast swimmers don't need the "cheat" of bouancy to make them more efficient. Plus, the volume and intensity of their training precludes them from maintaining any body fat even if they were to try.

And that being said, a lot of excess fat, esp. around the belly, affect hydrodynamics and at some point would negate any benefit from added bouancy.

wyecrab - 2005-11-29 1:33 PM

I was just thinking about this topic during my workout today. As run4yrlf mentioned, fat should provide a benefit through buoyancy. But , Phelps, Thorpe, et al are build like toothpicks. It may be that fat provides little to no benefit when racing shorter distances at high speed, as the water restistance provides lift, but becomes more of a benefit when the pace slows during longer events. This, of course, is irrelevant if you're like run4yrlf, and race long distances at high speed Tongue out.

And seals and sea lions may need fat for insulation in cold water rather than it being a benefit to their swimming.

2005-11-29 2:12 PM
in reply to: #294054

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Weight Loss and swim speed
Up until a month ago, I shared a lane at my Master's class with a woman who was 8 months pregnant. Huge Belly. She was a tall, broad woman, obviously an athlete, obviously been swimming a long time. She was in my lane bc she had to keep it slow, she had to keep her heart rate down. This woman with a decidedly huge protuberance that was anything but aerodynamic, killed me in every distance but 50 yds and less. With her heart rate in Zone 1, she was still a smooth, eficient, effortless swimmer.

fwiw.

I thought it was a great visual teaching aid for me.


2005-11-29 2:40 PM
in reply to: #294159

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Weight Loss and swim speed

possum - 2005-11-29 3:12 PM Up until a month ago, I shared a lane at my Master's class with a woman who was 8 months pregnant. Huge Belly. She was a tall, broad woman, obviously an athlete, obviously been swimming a long time. She was in my lane bc she had to keep it slow, she had to keep her heart rate down. This woman with a decidedly huge protuberance that was anything but aerodynamic, killed me in every distance but 50 yds and less. With her heart rate in Zone 1, she was still a smooth, eficient, effortless swimmer. fwiw. I thought it was a great visual teaching aid for me.

People like that should be required to wear an anchor around their necks.

TW

2005-11-29 3:09 PM
in reply to: #294054

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Subject: RE: Weight Loss and swim speed
I would argue that all swimming attributes being equal, the less body weight the swimmer carries, the faster the swimmer would be. To support this, I would offer that, 1) to swim fast, the swimmer needs to propel his/her body forward through the water quickly, and to accomplish this, less mass would require less force to propel, and 2) while fat may float, a swimmer's buoyancy shouldn't come from extra fat, but only from the swimmer's lungs being filled with air. (This is why you float when your lungs are full of air, but sink after you have fully exhaled), 3) if carrying extra body fat aided in swim speed, or did not detract from one's swim speed, I would expect that more competitive swimmers would be overweight.

Edited by olddskool 2005-11-29 3:11 PM
2005-11-29 4:28 PM
in reply to: #294264

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Giver
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Subject: RE: Weight Loss and swim speed

Good body posiiton doesn't come from bouyancy in your chest, it comes from elevated hips and legs. TI actually teaches you to press your chest down as a means of accomplishing this.

And again, increased bouyancy most positively affects slower swimmers and/pr those with poor efficiency. It doesn't apply to world-class swimmers with perfect/near-perfect mechanics. It's for this reason that wetsuits have a greater benefit for slower swimmers than for faster ones. And again, even if world-class swimmers *wanted* to maintain additional body fat, it would be pretty hard to do swimming 4 hours a day and up to 100K meters or more a week.

olddskool - 2005-11-29 3:09 PM I would argue that all swimming attributes being equal, the less body weight the swimmer carries, the faster the swimmer would be. To support this, I would offer that, 1) to swim fast, the swimmer needs to propel his/her body forward through the water quickly, and to accomplish this, less mass would require less force to propel, and 2) while fat may float, a swimmer's buoyancy shouldn't come from extra fat, but only from the swimmer's lungs being filled with air. (This is why you float when your lungs are full of air, but sink after you have fully exhaled), 3) if carrying extra body fat aided in swim speed, or did not detract from one's swim speed, I would expect that more competitive swimmers would be overweight.

2005-11-29 7:15 PM
in reply to: #294369

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Subject: RE: Weight Loss and swim speed
run4yrlif - 2005-11-29 4:28 PM

Good body posiiton doesn't come from bouyancy in your chest, it comes from elevated hips and legs. TI actually teaches you to press your chest down as a means of accomplishing this.



I definitely agree with you that increased bouyancy greatly helps slow and inefficient swimmers. Good body position (i.e., a bouyant body position) is a result, in part, of understanding how to lean on your chest, while keeping your head down. This results in as you mention "elevated hips and legs." It's my understanding that having extra body fat probably won't greatly aid a swimmer who hasn't learned these techniques.

2005-11-29 7:27 PM
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Subject: RE: Weight Loss and swim speed

Well, being a Clydesdale at 210lbs last year, I could blow away a lot of "toothpick" triathletes in any swim distance.  I also carry a lot more muscle(upper body) than most.  While body position and efficiency are important(I possess both skills) strength is very, very important.  So you are probably wondering what point am I getting to??  Since I have been a competitive swimmer for most of my life, I have observed and learned a lot about body types when it comes to speed and endurance in the water. Some fat may be beneficial to help bouyancy, as well as upper body strength. Obviously, there will be a point of diminishing returns when it comes to body weight and body fat percentage.  However, do not be fooled into thinking that you can swim faster than the "big guy or girl" next to you at the next triathlon.  Yes clydes can swim fast!!

Bmac



2005-11-30 2:39 PM
in reply to: #294085

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Subject: RE: Weight Loss and swim speed
wyecrab - 2005-11-29 12:33 PM

But , Phelps, Thorpe, et al are build like toothpicks.



Correction: Thorpie is built like a Norse god.





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2005-11-30 2:44 PM
in reply to: #295257

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Weight Loss and swim speed
CLLinIA - 2005-11-30 3:39 PM
wyecrab - 2005-11-29 12:33 PM

But , Phelps, Thorpe, et al are build like toothpicks.

Correction: Thorpie is built like a Norse god.

Norse gods have leety-beety short legs and arms that come down to their knees?

2005-11-30 3:14 PM
in reply to: #294054

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Veteran
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Spartanburg
Subject: RE: Weight Loss and swim speed
i would think that higher levels of body fat provide greater bouancy.
However,
it also tends to cause the athelete to take up more space.
If youre of the school of total immersion, that means youre making a bigger "tube" to swim through. (especially women as we're given bigger speed bumps as we gain weight)
However, heavier people tend to have compensation when it comes to muscle strength, as the stress on their muscles is greater on a day to day basis...
This means that the bouancy bonus recieved by the fat layer is decreased by the size of the tube the body makes and has to pull through the water, but all is evened by the greater muscle strength in a larger body...

One must also think of the respiratory ability of a person with a significant layer of fat...In order for one to acquire that a certain level of sendentation is required thus compromising ones ability to effectively distribute oxygen...

one who did a significant amount of swimming would remedy the respiration problems, but probably also burn a considerable amount of fat in the process.

The ideal body in this case would be: FAT, STRONG, LEAN, and ENDURING..
A combination not easily attained.
2005-11-30 3:25 PM
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Elite
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Muskego, WI
Subject: RE: Weight Loss and swim speed
Is this still alive?

It's like two inverse lines, or like an X on a graph.

Average/below average form - the fat person's bouyancy will assist them and they will be better off than the lean person. As form improves, the bouyancy will rapidly cancel itself out as the lean person's advantages start to show themselves. At some point in the form improvement process, the leaner person will intersect, and eventually overtake the larger person...

Bottom line...better to lose weight and be long and lean as you improve.
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