Long run nutrition question

I have found fueling at 45 minutes and continuing every 30-45 minutes to be beneficial. I have to make sure I take in enough water to dillute it or end up with major stomach pain after the race from it. The balance of just enough water is key (so you don't end up with side cramps)....

For marathon training, I have found that taking a GU (or your preferred brand) every 45 minutes works best for me. I also take a good sip of Gatorade/Powerade every 15 minutes or so as well. It seems to keep me going for the long stuff just fine.

I am currently trying different things on my long runs. I have a 4 pot Fuel Belt, and have used varying ratios of Perpetuem, Gel water mixture, and sport drinks. I have found for me personally, I use maybe 1 - 2 perpetuem flasks, with the remainder being gel/water mix. The longer it gets, I got 2 perpetuem, straight water, and a separate gel container to itself. I am keeping track of what I use, as I don't need any crap in the race. This will be my first long course year, so it needs to be perfect.
I have notuced that the perpetuem gets a little heavy for me on the run, so I haven't gone past 2. It is much better utilized on the run, and sparingly, as the calories are high, but good ones at that.

Just what I do. I am always interested to learn what works for others to see how I can use it.

I use a 6 bottle Fuel Belt and put in about 4 Accel gels in the zip pocket. In the bottles I will put Vitamin Water Perform flavor which covers my hydration and for training runs is enough electrolytes. I'll take the first gel about 20 minutes into the run and then one very half hour after that right befoe drinking (as was said, you need to dilute it or most people end up with GI issues).

Seems to work for me for training. I did not do that in my race and relied on the water stops and the Gatorade Endurance crap, which was probably one of my undoings. Never again ......

OK, so you use Perpetuem (or something like that) I assume.  It's all the same idea--just different form factors.  I could drink more gatorade during a marathon, but the gu works better for me.

Nevermind.  Saw your other post.  Just Gatorade?  You, my friend, are not normal.   Nice job with it though--obviously works for you.

Edited by JohnnyKay 2006-01-20 11:37 AM

I fuel starting 20' in and keep it there the entire run. I only take cals for runs over 1:30 - otherwise just water.

Do you want to define aerobic?

Nice textbook answer :-)

What type event is a 400m track race? Aerobic or anaerobic?

Larry -

It's close to 50/50:
200m run: 29% aerobic, 71% anaerobic
400m run: 43% aerobic, 57% anaerobic
800m run: 66% aerobic, 34% anaerobic
1500m run: 84% aerobic, 16% anaerobic

Pretty much anything over about 600m would be mostly aerobic. Your use of the words 'fat burning' would earn you some backlash from the Master by the way:

http://www.triathloncoach.com/articles/m2fuel.html

It looks as though we have a coach in common. I am going to drop you a PM.

First half: Aerobic
Second half: Anaerobic!

Mike,

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on not using additional 'solid' fuel (or more than one GU/gel) during an ironman. I've seen articles and other coaches sites that talk about training the body to use the fuel available, i.e the body's fat stores, but it doesn't seemed to be practiced by very many athletes. pro, elite or AG's.

This isn't a knock on la, I'm just curious what your background, training clients, etc. has shown you over the years.

Chris - this is a great question, thanks for asking me about it. My position constantly changes on this topic as I experiment more and more. Prior to 2005, I used primarily gels/fluid drink to keep me going in an IM. In 1999-2000 I used something called the IM Cocktail:
http://www.d3multisport.com/articles/imcocktail.html

In 2001 I started using Hammer products (www.e-caps.com) and I have used them since with great success. Prior to 2005, I loaded about 2 bottles with ~2000 cals and had a 5 shot gel flask on my bike. Lots of calories, I know, but I haven't had GI issues and it worked pretty well. Typically I would only use 1-2 shots of gel, but I still keep it with me in emergency situations.

In the winter of 2005, I went to NZ to train with some Pros (Gordo/Clas/Bjorn/Molina etc) and saw how they all ate some solid food on the bike. I hadn't done this in a long time and thought it might be worth a try. I did IMNZ in March, 05' - no solid food, but being that is was cold, my bottles were too cold (and thick with 2000 calories) to squueze and I only got about 1/2 my calories in. I got off the bike and had my worst run ever - slowest IM ever. I blame that more on my training then my nutrition however. I may have run better had I taken in more calories, but I had some physical issues that hindered my race.

In Summer of 2005, I raced IMLP - once again a slow IM, slowest one for me since 1993 (my first one) but I ran probably my best run ever in an IM (considering the LP course) and for that, I am happy to say was a result of my nutrition on the bike: no gel, 4 bottles (700 cals each, a mix of Sustained energy and HEED), and 2 power bars. I ate the bars before mile 60 on the bike.

So - my conclusion is that it has worked for me without anything but liquid (IMCali in 2001 all liquid and only coke/water on the run) and with solid food (IMLP 2005). I do think that I can go either way, but for now I'll stick with the solids on the bike - but I did lower the overall number of calories as well and I think that had something to do with how I did.

For my athletes - I give them all guidelines on how much to take in terms of calories but I let them decide on the method - some people love 15-20 gels during an IM and some people like to eat turkey sandwhiches (no kidding on either!) - so if it works for you, use it.

We do have something here in Boulder now, called a Fuel test where you can be tested to see if you are burning more fat or carbs - which is pretty neat as you can set up your nutrition on race day to match your body's demands.

I hope this helps!

Mike,

Thanks for the information. I'll need to read through it a little more carefully, but if what I'm seeing is correct; you're saying that in some instances you've taken your calories more from liquid than from solids or semi-solids or a combination of liquids/solids and that you feel that the liquid hasn't hurt your performance? I realize different people will react differently to fueling methods, so some trial and error is necessary.

I'll be reading (and re-reading) this thread a few times. Many thanks. I'm sure I should be paying for this information somewhere...but I appreciate your help to the financially challenged among us.

Chris

Chris - that's right - I haven't seen any issues going completely liquid - it's actually easier b/c you don't have to chew during the day - it's one less thing to think about. I don't think it has hurt my performance at all. As a matter of fact in 2001, I had some stomach issues that I think were due to swallowing some diesel fuel/water at IM Cali, and on the 2nd loop, I couldn't get any more calories down, so on the run, I had coke/water the whole way- no gels, gatorade or anything else.

There are some other nutrition thoughts on my website as well - give them a read.

As far as paying for the info - I had a lot of good mentors who helped me along the way and I know I wouldn't have learned as much if I had to pay for it. So, pay it forward. :-)