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2006-03-09 5:50 AM

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Champion
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Subject: 50+ mike bike - need nutrition advice
Last Saturday I stepped up my long bike ride to 54 miles - up from about 40 miles. I averaged 16+ mph over the first 25 miles but by the time I got to 50 miles I had dropped my average speed to just 14 mph. There were a few hills on the way back and a headwind came up but I think fatique really set in.

My nutrition on that ride: 0....as in nil....nada....didn't even eat breakfast before heading out. I did drink two bottles of water.

I actually felt pretty good at the end of the ride but zonked and in no condition to run a half marathon! I've got my long run up to 8 miles but the only bricks I've done have been like a 4 mile run after 30 minutes of spinning on the EB.

I realize now that I need to fuel up before and during the bike ride. What should I eat before and during the bike ride? How often should I eat? I'm thinking mabe eat a powerbar every 10 miles? I dunno.

BTW, I'm a big guy - 6'3" and currently at 264 lbs (down from 300 when I started training for the HIM on Dec 1) so I have plenty of 'reserve'.

~Mike


2006-03-09 8:13 AM
in reply to: #364846

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Subject: RE: 50+ mike bike - need nutrition advice
Mike-

You need to read these articles...
http://www.e-caps.com/za/ECP?PAGE=GUIDES
This is the Hammer Nutrition guides for all distances and training for tri's. Also, they give you a lot of info on why you need to follow certain nutrition schemes.

http://www.cruciblefitness.com/etips/LongBike.htm
This article by Rick at crucible is exactly what you are looking for.

When I started doing longer distances, I was lucky in that a veteran racer pointed me towards hammer nutrition. I use their products exclusively for training and racing.

Note: This is not for everyone. The reason I switched to hammer is that I get serious GI distress from PowerGel/Gu and other products that contain simple sugars during long distance training/racing. Also, I don't tolerate solid food very well after 3hrs...

For long training rides (3hr+)...
-Early Morning Rides: A couple of hammer gels w/ water 15 minutes before. I prefer to train on a relatively empty stomach as that is how I race. That is not to say I don't eat...I just don't eat solid foods. Come to think about it...is that really eating?? I take in about about 265 calories/hr. Yeah that sounds low, but your body cannot process as much as you burn an hr. I take in about 30-40 oz of H20/hr. If I do use a sports drink, it will be Hammer Heed and I count it into my 265/hr.
-Later Day rides: I try to get a good amount 400-500 cals of Carbs (Clean) usually perpeteum w/ Hammer Gel in about 2 1/2 hrs prior to top of my Glycogen stores.

For shorter rides, I often just do a couple of gels w/ H2O and maybe a sports drink (Depends on how I feel, etc). Often I'll just deplete my glycogen store, and replenish afterwards.

Key to everything...Even if you are trying to drop some weight, don't use your long bike/runs for this purpose. You need to replenish your glycogen stores after these. This will help short term & long term. I do a Carb/Protein powder shake w/ Orange Juice after my long bikes/runs, and can tell the next day the difference. When I don't my legs feel like lead!!

Good Luck!

Mike

Edited by BadgerIronMan 2006-03-09 8:23 AM
2006-03-09 11:33 AM
in reply to: #364846

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Subject: RE: 50+ mike bike - need nutrition advice
Mike,
Congrats on the weight loss!

I haven't figured out the best nutrition for myself yet, so I can't authoritatively answer your question, but I just wanted to say that in my experience, being overweight does not mean you have "reserves". I don't think it's wise to think of it that way.

I do think nutrition is very individual. What you need on a long ride or tri is different than what I need or someone else needs. You must also take into consideration what you like and what your body and stomach can tolerate and digest well.

Here's what I have done. On my recent long bike rides, I took some kind of sports drink in my camelback, one bottle of plain water, one or two flasks of gel, and 4 to 6 Clif bars. I ended up with some left over, but I'd rather be overstocked than under. Then I just eat or drink when I feel like it and think of it. I figure if I think of it, I'm probably needing something, so that's a good trigger for me, but I end up not eating or drinking enough usually.

Mike
2006-03-09 12:46 PM
in reply to: #364846

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Subject: RE: 50+ mike bike - need nutrition advice
Gee...its the Three mike's show...

Mike and Mike-

I totally agree with doing what you body can handle (solid vs liquid, complex vs simple sugar, protein vs carbs, etc). However, I would highly recommend trying a few rides with a set number of calories and force yourself to eat. I set my timex watch to go off every 15 minutes to remind me to eat and drink. Because I can tell you from experience, once you dig the calorie hole, there is no way to get out quickly. If you've ever bonked, you know that your condition can change it a matter of minutes. Your body often will not tell you until it is too late. I've included a quote from steve born that gives you some technical details on amounts. When he talks about %waste in route, that often has to due with the concentration of solution etc. 6-8% carb in solution is optimal. That's why liquid solutions are used by a number of athletes. Solid food takes longer to process, so you might require more. also, it is easier to estimate calorie consumption with Liquids as they are digested more quickly. A PB&J is great on a ride, but if you don't take in enough water to break it down & digest it quickly, you may reap the effects long after you actually eat it. Thus putting you in a position to not properly replace the calories you can replace. Remember, solid food will also require more digestion (e.g. more blood going from where you need it to your stomach). Yet, I know many athletes that eat a ton on the bike, but have no ill effects. That's where it comes down to your body

As far as calorie replenishment is concerned, the body has a limit to what it can accept from carbohydrate donation for return to the energy cycle. Researchers such as Coleman, Noakes, and others (in carbohydrate oxidative research) agree that up to 1.0 - 1.1 grams of carbohydrate per minute can be utilized from exogenous (outside) carbohydrate donation. A 1.0 g/carb per minute donation is 240 carbohydrate calories per hour. A 1.1 g/carb per minute donation is 264 carbohydrate calories per hour. Taking into account that some of those calories - approximately 6-23% - are burned/lost during the digestive process, this suggests that for the average athlete the minimum intake is 254.4 calories to obtain 240 calories per hour (1.0 per minute with 6% lost in route) while the absolute upper maximum is 324.72 carbohydrate calories required in order to regenerate 264 carbohydrate calories (1.1 per minute with 23% lost in route). ...Steve Born, Hammer Nutrition

Sorry for getting all technical, but I've spent years researching sports nutrition and testing in on myself to find a program that works for me. Good luck with yours!
2006-03-09 1:01 PM
in reply to: #364846

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Champion
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Subject: RE: 50+ mike bike - need nutrition advice
We all have different nutritional fuel requirements.  However, we all need water ... lots of it.  For longer distances, you should have at least two water bottles.  Drink often, at least every 15 minutes or so.  Plan your route so that you will be able to fill up your bottles when they are low.  I am not too high tec when it comes to nutrition, I simply stuff a few bananas in my jersey back pockets and a couple of sandwiches.  I eat the bananas on the bike and take a break at the half way point to relax and eat my sandwiches. 

Edited by Machiavelo 2006-03-09 1:04 PM
2006-03-10 11:43 AM
in reply to: #364846

Pro
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Subject: RE: 50+ mike bike - need nutrition advice
I always stuff my BentoBox with Fig Newtons on my long rides—even on the trainer. Yummie!

Edited by CptnJackSparrow 2006-03-10 11:44 AM


2006-03-10 12:07 PM
in reply to: #364846

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Subject: RE: 50+ mike bike - need nutrition advice

I've done a few 50+ milers, and carry 2 or gels, two bottles with sports drink (at least one of which gets refilled/topped with water) and 1-2 clif bars.  I try to drink regularly, have a clif bar at the mid break somewhere, and a gel about every hour.  That seems to work

Just went to hear Paula Newby Fraser speak, and one of the things she mentioned that caught my ear (besides the "snickers bars are great for long training rides" ) was that you should drink and if possible eat consistently, rather than waiting until a break and pounding it all down.

Just my .02

2006-03-10 12:07 PM
in reply to: #364846

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Subject: RE: 50+ mike bike - need nutrition advice

double tap



Edited by ChrisM 2006-03-10 12:07 PM
2006-03-10 2:11 PM
in reply to: #366448

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Subject: RE: 50+ mike bike - need nutrition advice
Yup, schedule "at 'x' time I will take my gel, at 'y' I will eat a banana or clif bar, I will take a drink every 'z' and finish at least one bottle an hour" etc. .......

Basically 16 - 22 oz. fluid each hour, 250 - 350 calories per hour (carbos/protein at 4:1 or 3:1) and plenty of electrolytes. That kind of sums up what the Hammer guys say (best resource in my opinion for nutrition).
2006-03-15 7:27 AM
in reply to: #366628

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Champion
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Alabama
Subject: RE: 50+ mike bike - need nutrition advice
Saturday I did 56 miles...this time with y'all fuel advice...and felt much, much better!

My plan was pretty simplistic - I ate a Marathon bar at 11-22-33-44 miles. These are about 300 calories and taste pretty good but were too dry. I think I'll try gels or something else.

I drank on the 5s and also when I ate. I two bottles - one of water and one of gatorade - and then bought a big bottle of water at a gas station at 43 miles.

Oh, and I also did some carb loading the night before with spagetti.

~Mike
2006-03-15 10:01 AM
in reply to: #364846

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molto veloce mama
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Subject: RE: 50+ mike bike - need nutrition advice
i like the honey zingers and clif electrolyte drinks for long rides....and bagels.


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