General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Lance makes statement about USADA charges. Rss Feed  
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2012-08-26 3:29 PM
in reply to: #4380785

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Subject: RE: Lance makes statement about USADA charges.
mike761 - 2012-08-26 12:02 PM
Left Brain - 2012-08-25 7:32 PM
mike761 - 2012-08-25 6:26 PM

gsmacleod - 2012-08-25 4:15 PM
buck_shot11 - 2012-08-25 5:24 PM can he compete as an amature?  forego his elite status and race with the age groupers.  would be nice to watch him line up with the regular joe and then pass most of the pro's!!
No. Every athlete who competes in an event sanctioned by a WADA signatory falls under the WADA code. Although it would be unusual to see AGers tested at an event, they still are expected to abide by the WADA code and sanctions against the athlete would still apply. Shane

Most of use would fail the drug tests if we were actually tested,  a lot of common cold medicines will make you fail.

Yeah, that's because you/me aren't professional athletes and don't have a clue what would make us fail a test.  The athletes do, and they don't take medicines that would make them fail.  

This is only difficult because most of us can't even comprehend what it takes to compete at the level these athletes do......we like to dream.....but that doesn't matter....we're not close.

Here is a link to banned substances:

http://sportsanddrugs.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=002037

Most professional athletes do not have the ability to figure all this out.  Even if they could the amount of cross contamination in drugs/vitamins/suppliments is much higher than anyone wants to acknowledge not to mention 75% of all pharmecutical produce go to livestock. So you accidentally eat the wrong piece of meat and you can come up positive. With all this the fact is that Lance has not failed any test,  or at least no test results have been released showing he has failed a test.

As for me not comprehending what it takes to compete at that level, please speak for yourself.  I swam at that level back in the 80's, and trained an olympic swimmer in the late 80's early 90's.  There are other on this board as well that have or are currently competing at an elite level.

I don't think this is over yet anyway, the charges still stand against others so they will have to produce this "evedence i"n order to convict. If they decide to drop the charges against the others then that would be  for

1 lack of eveidance

or

2 they just gunning for Lance, which would open them up for legal/criminal charges.

It's difficult for me to believe that they could not come up with enough evidence for the federal charges to go to court yet USADA says they have enough to prove him guilty.

 

 

I am actually suprised ethanol is on the list. I wonder at what levels because I would not be suprised if someone drinks a beer or wine the night before the race....it may be metabolized by the body by then but I believe alcohol has more cons then pros on raceday



2012-08-26 6:01 PM
in reply to: #4380785

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Subject: RE: Lance makes statement about USADA charges.
mike761 - 2012-08-26 11:02 AM
Left Brain - 2012-08-25 7:32 PM
mike761 - 2012-08-25 6:26 PM

gsmacleod - 2012-08-25 4:15 PM
buck_shot11 - 2012-08-25 5:24 PM can he compete as an amature?  forego his elite status and race with the age groupers.  would be nice to watch him line up with the regular joe and then pass most of the pro's!!
No. Every athlete who competes in an event sanctioned by a WADA signatory falls under the WADA code. Although it would be unusual to see AGers tested at an event, they still are expected to abide by the WADA code and sanctions against the athlete would still apply. Shane

Most of use would fail the drug tests if we were actually tested,  a lot of common cold medicines will make you fail.

Yeah, that's because you/me aren't professional athletes and don't have a clue what would make us fail a test.  The athletes do, and they don't take medicines that would make them fail.  

This is only difficult because most of us can't even comprehend what it takes to compete at the level these athletes do......we like to dream.....but that doesn't matter....we're not close.

Here is a link to banned substances:

http://sportsanddrugs.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=002037

Most professional athletes do not have the ability to figure all this out.  Even if they could the amount of cross contamination in drugs/vitamins/suppliments is much higher than anyone wants to acknowledge not to mention 75% of all pharmecutical produce go to livestock. So you accidentally eat the wrong piece of meat and you can come up positive. With all this the fact is that Lance has not failed any test,  or at least no test results have been released showing he has failed a test.

As for me not comprehending what it takes to compete at that level, please speak for yourself.  I swam at that level back in the 80's, and trained an olympic swimmer in the late 80's early 90's.  There are other on this board as well that have or are currently competing at an elite level.

I don't think this is over yet anyway, the charges still stand against others so they will have to produce this "evedence i"n order to convict. If they decide to drop the charges against the others then that would be  for

1 lack of eveidance

or

2 they just gunning for Lance, which would open them up for legal/criminal charges.

It's difficult for me to believe that they could not come up with enough evidence for the federal charges to go to court yet USADA says they have enough to prove him guilty.

 

Professional athletes DO NOT have trouble figuring it out....or there would be mass disqualifications, suspensions, etc ...the fact is, there are not athletes testing positive who shouldn't be.  Well, unless you are Barry Bonds and get some bad ointment for sore muscles. Laughing

You can hold onto the Lance is innocent routine for a bit longer.....but the cat's about to come running out of the bag.

2012-08-26 6:31 PM
in reply to: #4380785

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Subject: RE: Lance makes statement about USADA charges.
mike761 - 2012-08-26 1:02 PM

Here is a link to banned substances:

http://sportsanddrugs.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=002037



Here's one that is much more user friendly for athletes and coaches:

http://globaldro.org/

Most professional athletes do not have the ability to figure all this out.


Curious as to why you feel this way; if elite athletes were not aware of what they can and cannot take in and out of competition, wouldn't there be many more athletes failing doping controls?

Even if they could the amount of cross contamination in drugs/vitamins/suppliments is much higher than anyone wants to acknowledge not to mention 75% of all pharmecutical produce go to livestock. So you accidentally eat the wrong piece of meat and you can come up positive.


Again, if it were so easy to test positive, we should see many more athletes failing doping controls.

With all this the fact is that Lance has not failed any test,  or at least no test results have been released showing he has failed a test.


There has been at least one failed test; a steriod test that he was able to obtain a retroactive TUE for following the test.

I don't think this is over yet anyway, the charges still stand against others so they will have to produce this "evedence i"n order to convict.


They have said they will produce the evidence regardless of what happens however, I would not be surprised if Bruyneel were decide not to go to aribtration so that the evidence doesn't come out in his arbitration. If that happens, then I would expect some of the evidence comes out, but not everything.

It's difficult for me to believe that they could not come up with enough evidence for the federal charges to go to court yet USADA says they have enough to prove him guilty.


Except the federal charges were for fraud and the USADA sanctions are for doping and helping to organize systematic doping within his team.

Shane
2012-08-26 6:36 PM
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Subject: RE: Lance makes statement about USADA charges.

HonoluluAngel - 2012-08-26 4:18 PM If Lance is banned from Kona IM he probably could just start up his own race or races and they would be sold out.

 

Lance IS banned from Kona IM.

2012-08-27 11:06 AM
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Subject: RE: Lance makes statement about USADA charges.

HonoluluAngel - 2012-08-26 3:18 PM If Lance is banned from Kona IM he probably could just start up his own race or races and they would be sold out.

 

HA!  This would be a class F-U response.

2012-08-27 11:18 AM
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Subject: RE: Lance makes statement about USADA charges.

Unfortunately I understand lawyers, legal proceedings, and "how they get paid" better than most, and far better I ever wished I would Frown  Particularly given the level of sophistication of this "client" (LA), I somehow doubt this letter's language was submitted without his knowledge & consent.  Whether anything comes of it only time will tell.......

The evidence will come out eventually, Tygart will make sure of that.  Lance's side just wants to see the "evidence" and have time to plan a legal and PR response. 

What is the timeline that USADA needs to supply their "reasoned decision" to the UCI and others?



2012-08-27 11:48 AM
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Subject: RE: Lance makes statement about USADA charges.
Fred D - 2012-08-24 4:40 PM

GODAWGS - 2012-08-24 4:29 PM I care more about the $500M he raised to fight cancer and the hope he gave people with cancer all over the world.  He is still a hero in the eyes of many.

I think this is a huge part of the challenge in situations like this. Let me explain....

LA obviously did a number of really good things:
1. Gave people hope.
2. Raised money for Livestrong.
3. Inspired all sorts of people to become more physically active.

However, for arguments sake, let's assume he did run a doping operation when he was on the USPS cycling team, as IMO he did.

** I do realize that there are people who flat out believe he did not dope at all, but they are a minority and for the purposes of this argument I am going to assume he doped **

Just my opinion, but there are 12 cyclists willing to testify against him and it seems likely that not only he doped, but that he ran a conspiracy on the USPS team. This is my bigger issue, ie; the assertion that to be on the USPS team you HAD to dope or you were off the team. This is bad for a number of reasons, but has an effect beyond the team, ie; the impact for younger athletes who look up to LA.

So there is good and bad, but just like Joe Paterno.... the good you do in life does not excuse you from the wrong.

It probably seems unfair, but LA needs to be accountable for his actions, just like Paterno. We also are ok celebrating his good things as long as we take it in a balanced view.

There is not really a "get out of jail free" card that is given when you do a lot of good IMO, but rather we take the sum of the parts of a man and evaluate the good the bad and the ugly. It's not a black and white issue, but a rather grey one IME.

So YES, he gave hope and raised lots of money, but I also want him held accountable for his doping actions.

ETA: Which is a way of saying that I see this as a complex situation where I truly recognize the good LA did but I am not of the opinion that doing a lot of good in your life excuses you from accountability for situations like this.

I don't think there was anywhere in my statement that LA should not be held accountable if he was doping.  I presented a statement on my feelings toward all the work he has done in the fight against cancer and countless hours in this effort. 

 

2012-08-27 12:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Lance makes statement about USADA charges.
Swimbikeron - 2012-08-27 11:06 AM

HonoluluAngel - 2012-08-26 3:18 PM If Lance is banned from Kona IM he probably could just start up his own race or races and they would be sold out.

 

HA!  This would be a class F-U response.

I agree.

It would be fun if there was a race series where racers were tested, and if they failed a test were disqualified but otherwise, not so.  Unlike this kindergarten squealer show we're watching.

2012-08-27 12:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Lance makes statement about USADA charges.

Here's a question:
If we are going back 17 years to nail a guy, who from all smells of it (walks like a duck, smells like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it must be a duck) looks like a duck, and USADA is breaking their own protocol, (8 yr statue of limitations), then should we go back and nail every winner who ever doped? How about the guys in the 80s, 70s, etc? Why just LA? Why not the guy who finished 17th who doped? Are we going after him?

My stance has always been, if he did it, then he needs to stand up and say, "I'm sorry, I did it". Problem is, he's a Texan, like Roger Clemens, he has a huge ego, and he won't ever admit it. So, here we are 17 years after he did it, and we are going to chase down a bike race title from that long ago? We are using govt tax dollars for this, when our economy is in the crapper, 60% of our kids are obese, there are homeless veterans, and all kinds of other 'real' problems in our country. I just don't get it. It's a vendetta and its completely unconstitutional. If the other witnesses are going to be punished, why are they still racing? It's so ridiculous.

2012-08-28 3:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Lance makes statement about USADA charges.
mikericci - 2012-08-27 12:56 PM

Here's a question:
If we are going back 17 years to nail a guy, who from all smells of it (walks like a duck, smells like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it must be a duck) looks like a duck, and USADA is breaking their own protocol, (8 yr statue of limitations), then should we go back and nail every winner who ever doped? How about the guys in the 80s, 70s, etc? Why just LA? Why not the guy who finished 17th who doped? Are we going after him?

My stance has always been, if he did it, then he needs to stand up and say, "I'm sorry, I did it". Problem is, he's a Texan, like Roger Clemens, he has a huge ego, and he won't ever admit it. So, here we are 17 years after he did it, and we are going to chase down a bike race title from that long ago? We are using govt tax dollars for this, when our economy is in the crapper, 60% of our kids are obese, there are homeless veterans, and all kinds of other 'real' problems in our country. I just don't get it. It's a vendetta and its completely unconstitutional. If the other witnesses are going to be punished, why are they still racing? It's so ridiculous.

X2

How would everyone react if the NFL stripped a Superbowl champion team of the title because they think a player used PED during the Superbowl? 

2012-08-28 3:47 PM
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Subject: RE: Lance makes statement about USADA charges.
mikericci - 2012-08-27 10:56 AM

Here's a question:
If we are going back 17 years to nail a guy, who from all smells of it (walks like a duck, smells like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it must be a duck) looks like a duck, and USADA is breaking their own protocol, (8 yr statue of limitations), then should we go back and nail every winner who ever doped? How about the guys in the 80s, 70s, etc? Why just LA? Why not the guy who finished 17th who doped? Are we going after him?

My stance has always been, if he did it, then he needs to stand up and say, "I'm sorry, I did it". Problem is, he's a Texan, like Roger Clemens, he has a huge ego, and he won't ever admit it. So, here we are 17 years after he did it, and we are going to chase down a bike race title from that long ago? We are using govt tax dollars for this, when our economy is in the crapper, 60% of our kids are obese, there are homeless veterans, and all kinds of other 'real' problems in our country. I just don't get it. It's a vendetta and its completely unconstitutional. If the other witnesses are going to be punished, why are they still racing? It's so ridiculous.

x3



2012-08-28 8:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Lance makes statement about USADA charges.
GODAWGS - 2012-08-28 3:11 PM
mikericci - 2012-08-27 12:56 PM

Here's a question:
If we are going back 17 years to nail a guy, who from all smells of it (walks like a duck, smells like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it must be a duck) looks like a duck, and USADA is breaking their own protocol, (8 yr statue of limitations), then should we go back and nail every winner who ever doped? How about the guys in the 80s, 70s, etc? Why just LA? Why not the guy who finished 17th who doped? Are we going after him?

My stance has always been, if he did it, then he needs to stand up and say, "I'm sorry, I did it". Problem is, he's a Texan, like Roger Clemens, he has a huge ego, and he won't ever admit it. So, here we are 17 years after he did it, and we are going to chase down a bike race title from that long ago? We are using govt tax dollars for this, when our economy is in the crapper, 60% of our kids are obese, there are homeless veterans, and all kinds of other 'real' problems in our country. I just don't get it. It's a vendetta and its completely unconstitutional. If the other witnesses are going to be punished, why are they still racing? It's so ridiculous.

X2

How would everyone react if the NFL stripped a Superbowl champion team of the title because they think a player used PED during the Superbowl? 

NFL is run by serious adults and would never cut their own throats or kill a cash cow, unlike this circus we are watching now.
2012-08-29 8:27 AM
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Subject: RE: Lance makes statement about USADA charges.

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8310275/armstrong-worth-honoring

This is today's ESPN article, very pro-Lance, but the number I hadn't seen before is that he has spent $5M on legal bills to date.

2012-08-29 9:51 AM
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Subject: RE: Lance makes statement about USADA charges.
Swimbikeron - 2012-08-29 7:27 AM

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8310275/armstrong-worth-honoring

This is today's ESPN article, very pro-Lance, but the number I hadn't seen before is that he has spent $5M on legal bills to date.

Shaky ground at best. Lance is known for going after people that speak against him. That is optional legal fees. He filed a suit against USADA in federal court to stop them... everyone likes to quote Sparks when he says USADA has less than ideal motive... yet nobody want to quote him when he through the case out to begin with as nothing more than a publicity stunt by LA. When he refiled even I knew he had no case. How much did that cost?

I'm not saying I agree with what USADA is doing, but Lance plays his games too. What I do know from a long history of LA is that he does not do anything that does not benefit him or give him the best advantage. That is how champions win... but "stop fighting BECAUSE it is costing too much... ah... no.

2012-08-29 10:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Lance makes statement about USADA charges.
powerman - 2012-08-29 8:51 AM
Swimbikeron - 2012-08-29 7:27 AM

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8310275/armstrong-worth-honoring

This is today's ESPN article, very pro-Lance, but the number I hadn't seen before is that he has spent $5M on legal bills to date.

Shaky ground at best. Lance is known for going after people that speak against him. That is optional legal fees. He filed a suit against USADA in federal court to stop them... everyone likes to quote Sparks when he says USADA has less than ideal motive... yet nobody want to quote him when he through the case out to begin with as nothing more than a publicity stunt by LA. When he refiled even I knew he had no case. How much did that cost?

I'm not saying I agree with what USADA is doing, but Lance plays his games too. What I do know from a long history of LA is that he does not do anything that does not benefit him or give him the best advantage. That is how champions win... but "stop fighting BECAUSE it is costing too much... ah... no.

Agreed. He's not stopping b/c of money. He's probably using this to angle in on getting the evidence when it's turned over to the UCI. This is far from over.

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