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2012-08-29 3:07 PM
in reply to: #4386738

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?

RookieIM - 2012-08-29 3:00 PM Why don't you just buy a rear view mirror for your helmet? Then you can see people coming from behind you.  If you think someone is swerving then you can still get out of the way.  Wouldn't a mirror pretty much solve all your problems and then you dont' have to worry about riding dangerously head on straight into traffic?

Probably will thanks



2012-08-29 3:09 PM
in reply to: #4386489

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
brooklynpatriot - 2012-08-29 2:41 PM
crowny2 - 2012-08-29 1:38 PM

Overwhelming evidence STRONGLY points to no.  It is not safer.

 

Could you show it to me?  It's been shown, time and time again, reread the thread if you need to.  I am genuinely curious.  No you're not, that's why you are being incredibly argumentative despite the overwhelming response being that of do NOT ride into oncoming traffic.  I'm not out to do things my way, or be unsafe, my goal is to be as safe as possible which is why I am bringing this up in the first place. Clearly that's not true because despite all the responses to your question, you still clearly seem intent on doing things your way, being unsafe, and being as unsafe as possible.  

2012-08-29 3:11 PM
in reply to: #4386707

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
lisac957 - 2012-08-29 2:47 PM
brooklynpatriot - 2012-08-29 2:38 PM
lisac957 - 2012-08-29 2:33 PM
brooklynpatriot - 2012-08-29 2:31 PM 

I don't have a mirror, maybe I should get one.  I can usually here cars coming, but sometimes I get int he zone when I ride on the right and I get passed by cars and never knew they were coming.  Sometimes it is windy/raining.

You yourself stated earlier that for your plan (of blatantly breaking the law and being unpredictable to motorists) to work, you had to be very aware and paying attention at all times.

You've just admitted that you don't. But you still want to proceed with your plan?

1.  Never said it was my plan, maybe you should work on your reading comprehension (how is that for snarky?).

2.  I never said I would have to be very aware and paying attention at all times.  Again, work on your reading comp.

3.  There is a difference between not being able to hear a car coming behind you and being so ridiculously out of it that you can't see a car that is coming right at you.

Have a nice day

If it's not your plan, why are you continuing to argue for 6 pages? 

You've stated numerous times you'd have 10 seconds to see the driver coming straight for you and react by riding into the shoulder or ditch. If you are zoned out, how are you going to do that in time?  

I don't think I'm the one with a reading comprehension problem...

It becomes my plan if it is actually safer.  Notice the topic of this thread is a question.  Also note in the OP I said I ride my bike on the right side of the road.

Already responded to the zoned out argument, done arguing.  I provided you with a response which you ignored/ weren't able to read/comprehend.

2012-08-29 3:12 PM
in reply to: #4386744

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
brooklynpatriot - 2012-08-29 3:03 PM

Hook'em - 2012-08-29 2:48 PM
MUL98 - 2012-08-29 2:43 PM 

Almost all laws are subject to rational basis review.  If there is no rational basis for the law, it should be struck down. Let me guess. You've taken con law in undergrad and are strongly considering law school? A hint, get the legal education and then talk about application of the the rational basis test. It's only applicable when a law is constitutionally challenged. Trial courts don't just examine traffic laws for a rational basis on their own. Even assuming you got a court to hear your rational basis argument (which is itself unlikely), there is no doubt that your state legislature had a rational basis for requiring you to ride on the right side of the road. (It is the most lenient form of judicial review on constitutional questions.) But let's assume for a minute that you can play this out. You ride on the left, cop tickets you, you make an argument that the law is unconstitutional. You do realize that the traffic court you start out in is not going to strike down the law, right? To get to that result - which is not achievable anyway - you are going to have to at very least go to the Court of Appeals. More likely to the Supreme Court. Do you really want to spend that kind of time and money challenging a traffic law. (Just to lose in the end.) Of course most of this is likely moot, because the more likely result is that you wind up dead from riding the wrong way in traffic.

All that is required is that a rational basis can be articulated for the law and it doesn't have to be the reason proffered by the legislating body.  Good grief - was your law school even accredited? 

Dunno, is Cornell Law accredited?  



First year?

Please tell me that Cornell is not teaching law students that a trial court will strike down a traffic law based on a rational basis review?
2012-08-29 3:13 PM
in reply to: #4386755

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
RookieIM - 2012-08-29 3:09 PM
brooklynpatriot - 2012-08-29 2:41 PM
crowny2 - 2012-08-29 1:38 PM

Overwhelming evidence STRONGLY points to no.  It is not safer.

 

Could you show it to me?  It's been shown, time and time again, reread the thread if you need to.  I am genuinely curious.  No you're not, that's why you are being incredibly argumentative despite the overwhelming response being that of do NOT ride into oncoming traffic.  I'm not out to do things my way, or be unsafe, my goal is to be as safe as possible which is why I am bringing this up in the first place. Clearly that's not true because despite all the responses to your question, you still clearly seem intent on doing things your way, being unsafe, and being as unsafe as possible.  

I have read the thread and responded to all criticisms.

I'm only arguing with the reasons I can provide a counterargument against.  Certain criticisms of my argument I acknowledged as valid.  

 

I said I will  continue to ride on the right side of the road, so how do I seem intent to do things my way?   Please read before you criticize thanks.



Edited by brooklynpatriot 2012-08-29 3:14 PM
2012-08-29 3:16 PM
in reply to: #4386765

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
MUL98 - 2012-08-29 3:12 PM
brooklynpatriot - 2012-08-29 3:03 PM
Hook'em - 2012-08-29 2:48 PM
MUL98 - 2012-08-29 2:43 PM 

Almost all laws are subject to rational basis review.  If there is no rational basis for the law, it should be struck down. Let me guess. You've taken con law in undergrad and are strongly considering law school? A hint, get the legal education and then talk about application of the the rational basis test. It's only applicable when a law is constitutionally challenged. Trial courts don't just examine traffic laws for a rational basis on their own. Even assuming you got a court to hear your rational basis argument (which is itself unlikely), there is no doubt that your state legislature had a rational basis for requiring you to ride on the right side of the road. (It is the most lenient form of judicial review on constitutional questions.) But let's assume for a minute that you can play this out. You ride on the left, cop tickets you, you make an argument that the law is unconstitutional. You do realize that the traffic court you start out in is not going to strike down the law, right? To get to that result - which is not achievable anyway - you are going to have to at very least go to the Court of Appeals. More likely to the Supreme Court. Do you really want to spend that kind of time and money challenging a traffic law. (Just to lose in the end.) Of course most of this is likely moot, because the more likely result is that you wind up dead from riding the wrong way in traffic.

All that is required is that a rational basis can be articulated for the law and it doesn't have to be the reason proffered by the legislating body.  Good grief - was your law school even accredited? 

Dunno, is Cornell Law accredited?  

First year? Please tell me that Cornell is not teaching law students that a trial court will strike down a traffic law based on a rational basis review?

Doesn't have to strike down the law, it could choose not to apply it in a certain set of factual circumstances.  See Riggs v Palmer for such an example.  Also, what the court would do and what it should do are two different questions.  I addressed what the court should do.



2012-08-29 3:17 PM
in reply to: #4386671

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
brooklynpatriot - 2012-08-29 3:36 PM

Think I'm done with this thread, and again, I apologize if anyone was offended.

It was the inspirational quote from Lincoln that brought you back.

 

 

2012-08-29 3:19 PM
in reply to: #4386744

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Deep in the Heart of Texas
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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
brooklynpatriot - 2012-08-29 3:03 PM
Hook'em - 2012-08-29 2:48 PM
MUL98 - 2012-08-29 2:43 PM 

Almost all laws are subject to rational basis review.  If there is no rational basis for the law, it should be struck down. Let me guess. You've taken con law in undergrad and are strongly considering law school? A hint, get the legal education and then talk about application of the the rational basis test. It's only applicable when a law is constitutionally challenged. Trial courts don't just examine traffic laws for a rational basis on their own. Even assuming you got a court to hear your rational basis argument (which is itself unlikely), there is no doubt that your state legislature had a rational basis for requiring you to ride on the right side of the road. (It is the most lenient form of judicial review on constitutional questions.) But let's assume for a minute that you can play this out. You ride on the left, cop tickets you, you make an argument that the law is unconstitutional. You do realize that the traffic court you start out in is not going to strike down the law, right? To get to that result - which is not achievable anyway - you are going to have to at very least go to the Court of Appeals. More likely to the Supreme Court. Do you really want to spend that kind of time and money challenging a traffic law. (Just to lose in the end.) Of course most of this is likely moot, because the more likely result is that you wind up dead from riding the wrong way in traffic.

All that is required is that a rational basis can be articulated for the law and it doesn't have to be the reason proffered by the legislating body.  Good grief - was your law school even accredited? 

Dunno, is Cornell Law accredited?  

That jab was directed at MUL98 not you.  And for future reference, red is the joking or sarcastic font color.  

2012-08-29 3:26 PM
in reply to: #4386266

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
And not that it really matters, but in New York, prosecutors will almost always offer an ACD for riding your bike where you shouldn't.  An ACD stands for adjournment in contemplation of dismissal which means if you don't get arrested in the next 6 months your case is dismissed without a fine.

Edited by brooklynpatriot 2012-08-29 3:27 PM
2012-08-29 3:30 PM
in reply to: #4386788

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
Goosedog - 2012-08-29 1:17 PM
brooklynpatriot - 2012-08-29 3:36 PM

Think I'm done with this thread, and again, I apologize if anyone was offended.

It was the inspirational quote from Lincoln that brought you back.

 

 

The Great Emancipator does it again

2012-08-29 3:34 PM
in reply to: #4386815

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?

brooklynpatriot - 2012-08-29 4:26 PM And not that it really matters, but in New York, prosecutors will almost always offer an ACD for riding your bike where you shouldn't.  An ACD stands for adjournment in contemplation of dismissal which means if you don't get arrested in the next 6 months your case is dismissed without a fine.

Don't give in to the man.  Stick with that rational basis review stuff.

 

 



2012-08-29 3:38 PM
in reply to: #4386781

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
brooklynpatriot - 2012-08-29 3:16 PM

MUL98 - 2012-08-29 3:12 PM
brooklynpatriot - 2012-08-29 3:03 PM
Hook'em - 2012-08-29 2:48 PM
MUL98 - 2012-08-29 2:43 PM 

Almost all laws are subject to rational basis review.  If there is no rational basis for the law, it should be struck down. Let me guess. You've taken con law in undergrad and are strongly considering law school? A hint, get the legal education and then talk about application of the the rational basis test. It's only applicable when a law is constitutionally challenged. Trial courts don't just examine traffic laws for a rational basis on their own. Even assuming you got a court to hear your rational basis argument (which is itself unlikely), there is no doubt that your state legislature had a rational basis for requiring you to ride on the right side of the road. (It is the most lenient form of judicial review on constitutional questions.) But let's assume for a minute that you can play this out. You ride on the left, cop tickets you, you make an argument that the law is unconstitutional. You do realize that the traffic court you start out in is not going to strike down the law, right? To get to that result - which is not achievable anyway - you are going to have to at very least go to the Court of Appeals. More likely to the Supreme Court. Do you really want to spend that kind of time and money challenging a traffic law. (Just to lose in the end.) Of course most of this is likely moot, because the more likely result is that you wind up dead from riding the wrong way in traffic.

All that is required is that a rational basis can be articulated for the law and it doesn't have to be the reason proffered by the legislating body.  Good grief - was your law school even accredited? 

Dunno, is Cornell Law accredited?  

First year? Please tell me that Cornell is not teaching law students that a trial court will strike down a traffic law based on a rational basis review?

Doesn't have to strike down the law, it could choose not to apply it in a certain set of factual circumstances.  See Riggs v Palmer for such an example.  Also, what the court would do and what it should do are two different questions.  I addressed what the court should do.



You're stretching my memory with case book material, but I give you credit for pulling up an 1889 case to support you position. A few problems:

1. Riggs was not a constitutional challenge case. Rational basis analysis wan't used. At best it can be described as a statutory construction case. It might provide a basis on which to challenge a statute but:

2. There's a HUGE difference between commiting murder and seeking to profit from it (as in Riggs), and riding your bike on the wrong side of the road. Good luck convincing a judge that these are analogous situations.

3. Riggs was decided by the highest court in NY. Basically making my point that you're unlikely to get a quick easy decision from a trial court striking down a traffic law. Enjoy the cost of appeals.

4. Saying that a court "should" strike down the law you are challenging is a stretch at best. The better argument is that the court "should" apply the law. (Also in the real world, what "would" happen is probably more important.)


Enough nerding out - sorry for the hijack.
2012-08-29 3:39 PM
in reply to: #4386474

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
tri808 - 2012-08-29 2:38 PM

If bikers are allowed to ride wherever they want...what happens when two bikers approach each other on the same side of the road going opposite directions?  Who has the right of way.  What is the lawful and safe method of passing each other?

This totally happened to me today!  This man on his bike turns left into the (my) right hand lane... and there was also a car in front of me.  (We had been stopped, but had just been given the green light.) I don't think the car knew where this man was going, and neither did I!  He chose to go behind the car, but in front of me, which meant he was coming straight at me before he moved over.  I was like uhh really?

2012-08-29 3:44 PM
in reply to: #4386815

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?

brooklynpatriot - 2012-08-29 4:26 PM And not that it really matters, but in New York, prosecutors will almost always offer an ACD for riding your bike where you shouldn't.  An ACD stands for adjournment in contemplation of dismissal which means if you don't get arrested in the next 6 months your case is dismissed without a fine.

Honest question for you??

Are you arguing out of real personal concern for safety for yourself here as a cyclist?

OR

Are you working on legal debating skills?

Either way in NO shape or form am I trying to be negative to you personally. I welcome you to BT and everything sugar and spice and such.

2012-08-29 3:46 PM
in reply to: #4386877

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
Fred D - 2012-08-29 4:44 PM

Are you working on legal debating skills?

If this is the case, the exercise should probably continue.

 

2012-08-29 3:50 PM
in reply to: #4386266

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Pennsylvania
Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?

Wow, not gonna mull through 7 pages to see if what I have to add has already been added.

Short answer: ride on the right where you belong.

Reason for my answer, beyond the many answers of it's the law and it's safer: consider the situation where 2 cars, one in each direction need to occupy the same portion of road you are.  If you are traveling with traffic, the car behind you can easily wait to overtake you until the other car passes.  If you are zooming toward the car in the left lane and there is another car in the right lane, what are you to do and what is the car to do?



2012-08-29 4:09 PM
in reply to: #4386892

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Sensei
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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?

I'm completely shocked that this thread, or at least posts in it are still around...

2012-08-29 4:14 PM
in reply to: #4386892

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Wichita
Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
melbo55 - 2012-08-29 3:50 PM

Wow, not gonna mull through 7 pages to see if what I have to add has already been added.

Short answer: ride on the right where you belong.

Reason for my answer, beyond the many answers of it's the law and it's safer: consider the situation where 2 cars, one in each direction need to occupy the same portion of road you are.  If you are traveling with traffic, the car behind you can easily wait to overtake you until the other car passes.  If you are zooming toward the car in the left lane and there is another car in the right lane, what are you to do and what is the car to do?

This has been presented and obviously you would stop and get out of the way because you can see them coming and nothing bad will happen

2012-08-29 4:17 PM
in reply to: #4386557

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
Bodaggit - 2012-08-29 3:01 PM
GoFaster - 2012-08-29 2:42 PM

My 7 year old uses your same methodology for thinking - we the parents (the law) are unjust and unfair and he goes out of his way to prove his way is better/correct.  Inevitably he loses, either by learning the hard way, or dealing with the wrath of his parents.

By the way, I think this is a big troll post to begin with because no-one is that.......

GoFaster,

I have not weighed in on the topic yet, but your above post makes you look like a tool.  The OP is not trying to prove one way is better or correct, and I don't believe he has commented on the fairness of the law.  He is asking an honest question of what makes the most sense on a country road.  You are the one with the troll reply.

This made me chuckle.  If that's how you read his posts, you're welcome to this viewpoint, but I suggest going back and rereading.

2012-08-29 4:26 PM
in reply to: #4386266

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
Lol Neil, somehow I think I sucked you into this thread.
2012-08-29 4:30 PM
in reply to: #4386971

Master
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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?

Fred D - 2012-08-29 4:26 PM Lol Neil, somehow I think I sucked you into this thread.

You're related to Lincoln?



2012-08-29 4:33 PM
in reply to: #4386981

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Sensei
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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
brigby1 - 2012-08-29 2:30 PM

Fred D - 2012-08-29 4:26 PM Lol Neil, somehow I think I sucked you into this thread.

You're related to Lincoln?

The vampire slayer?

2012-08-29 5:18 PM
in reply to: #4386347

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Master
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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
TriBoilermaker - 2012-08-29 1:02 PM I ride 100% of my rides in very rural country. I can go for a 50 mile ride and have less than 10 cars pass me. I have never thought of riding on the left side of the road. Besides the legal as already mentioned it would feel very strange to ride on that side. I'm not going to, but it has made me think if it would be safer somehow.
This for me. Some days, I see more cyclists and runners than cars. I also stop at stop signs and signal (and look) before I turn. Obey the rules so everyone knows what you are doing.
2012-08-29 10:03 PM
in reply to: #4386266

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
Move to Tucson, there's more bike lanes than laws!
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