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2012-08-29 2:38 PM
in reply to: #4386665

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
lisac957 - 2012-08-29 2:33 PM
brooklynpatriot - 2012-08-29 2:31 PM 

I don't have a mirror, maybe I should get one.  I can usually here cars coming, but sometimes I get int he zone when I ride on the right and I get passed by cars and never knew they were coming.  Sometimes it is windy/raining.

You yourself stated earlier that for your plan (of blatantly breaking the law and being unpredictable to motorists) to work, you had to be very aware and paying attention at all times.

You've just admitted that you don't. But you still want to proceed with your plan?

1.  Never said it was my plan, maybe you should work on your reading comprehension (how is that for snarky?).

2.  I never said I would have to be very aware and paying attention at all times.  Again, work on your reading comp.

3.  There is a difference between not being able to hear a car coming behind you and being so ridiculously out of it that you can't see a car that is coming right at you.

Have a nice day



2012-08-29 2:38 PM
in reply to: #4386671

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?

Think I'm done with this thread, and again, I apologize if anyone was offended.

Can't just take your ball and go home after so effectively getting everyone into an incrdulous tizzy.   That's unAmerican

2012-08-29 2:40 PM
in reply to: #4386666

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
Goosedog - 2012-08-29 9:33 AM

Buy a cross bike and stay in the grass.

 

I'm looking into that this fall...seriously. 

2012-08-29 2:41 PM
in reply to: #4386661

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?

brooklynpatriot - 2012-08-29 12:33 PM  I apologize if I offended anyone in this thread, that was never my intention.  I'm just used to riding in parks where I don't have to worry about cars and I'm making the transition to riding on the road and riding on the right seemed counterintuitive.  I will probably continue riding on the right (as I have always done in cities), while I look into this.

I think this is a good idea to stay on the right side of the road until you are convinced this is the safest thing to do.  Seek out some experienced riders in your area and talk face to face with them.  They may be able to give some additional insight.  Good luck with your training.

2012-08-29 2:41 PM
in reply to: #4386674

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
ChrisM - 2012-08-29 2:38 PM

Think I'm done with this thread, and again, I apologize if anyone was offended.

Can't just take your ball and go home after so effectively getting everyone into an incrdulous tizzy.   That's unAmerican

 

Well I'm clearly people off and I really don't want to do that lol.  

2012-08-29 2:41 PM
in reply to: #4386671

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
brooklynpatriot - 2012-08-29 4:36 PM

1.  I acknowledged that the force of impact would be greater.


But how much greater?

2.  You have to way severity of an accident vs odds of occurence to determine safety


As was pointed out, the chance of being involved in a head on collision is likely at least a great as being hit from behind, even if the cyclist is in a better position to react. i.e. blind crests, corners, etc

3.  If both accidents would result in death, it doesn't matter which would kill you worse.


Actually, if you run the numbers, the right hand side of the road collision is likely survivable but the left hand side collision is likely fatal.

Shane


2012-08-29 2:41 PM
in reply to: #4386674

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
ChrisM - 2012-08-29 3:38 PM

Think I'm done with this thread, and again, I apologize if anyone was offended.

Can't just take your ball and go home after so effectively getting everyone into an incrdulous tizzy.   That's unAmerican

Never, never, never give up. -- Abraham Lincoln

 

2012-08-29 2:43 PM
in reply to: #4386691

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Deep in the Heart of Texas
Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
Goosedog - 2012-08-29 2:41 PM
ChrisM - 2012-08-29 3:38 PM

Think I'm done with this thread, and again, I apologize if anyone was offended.

Can't just take your ball and go home after so effectively getting everyone into an incrdulous tizzy.   That's unAmerican

Never, never, never give up. -- Abraham Lincoln

We see how that worked out for him.

2012-08-29 2:43 PM
in reply to: #4386514

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?

Almost all laws are subject to rational basis review.  If there is no rational basis for the law, it should be struck down.

Let me guess. You've taken con law in undergrad and are strongly considering law school? A hint, get the legal education and then talk about application of the the rational basis test. It's only applicable when a law is constitutionally challenged. Trial courts don't just examine traffic laws for a rational basis on their own. Even assuming you got a court to hear your rational basis argument (which is itself unlikely), there is no doubt that your state legislature had a rational basis for requiring you to ride on the right side of the road. (It is the most lenient form of judicial review on constitutional questions.)

But let's assume for a minute that you can play this out. You ride on the left, cop tickets you, you make an argument that the law is unconstitutional.

You do realize that the traffic court you start out in is not going to strike down the law, right? To get to that result - which is not achievable anyway - you are going to have to at very least go to the Court of Appeals. More likely to the Supreme Court. Do you really want to spend that kind of time and money challenging a traffic law. (Just to lose in the end.)

Of course most of this is likely moot, because the more likely result is that you wind up dead from riding the wrong way in traffic.

2012-08-29 2:43 PM
in reply to: #4386673

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
brooklynpatriot - 2012-08-29 9:38 AM

3.  There is a difference between not being able to hear a car coming behind you and being so ridiculously out of it that you can't see a car that is coming right at you.

I don't know...I've seen people ride into cones, curbs, signs, or parked cars before.  And it's not like they were around blind corners.

2012-08-29 2:44 PM
in reply to: #4386266

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Wichita
Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?

You have said several times that no one has provided evidence, I actually have several times but it requires a little bit of knowledge of math to figure out and a basic understanding human reactions.  Not my fault if you can't understand that.

and to the person who asked what a sock is, same thing as a troll.  They are just trolling for reactions because they are bored at work.  They make up a fake screen name and use it so they don't have to use their regular name.



2012-08-29 2:46 PM
in reply to: #4386266

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Master
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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
Now that you expanded the description of what you're talking about to "long straight flat country road," i wonder if the point may be moot. You are in NYC, so I am having a hard time imagining your ability to ride on such a stretch without boarding a plane for the plains of the midwest. In the northeast and the mid-Atlantic, I can't think of any place where the roads don't twist and turn, or have hills. Even the short stretches that you describe would be bookended by more technically challenging roads. I know I am painting with a broad brush, but geographically I don't know if it's relevant. Are you thinkng of the NJ pine barrens? I can maybe see this on the Eastern shore of MD. Maybe I am too myopic with my location of Appalachia. But to the actual question, I've thought about this very issue, and concluded for myself that I am much happier running against traffic, where I can see the front wheels and where they are headed, with time to jump into a ditch. But I would be extrememly uncomfortable biking the same way for the main reason of the speed difference.
2012-08-29 2:46 PM
in reply to: #4386266

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
Sorry, double post

Edited by TheClaaaw 2012-08-29 2:47 PM
2012-08-29 2:47 PM
in reply to: #4386266

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
This is what happens when city folk venture out into the country.  They show us how we have been doing things wrong al l these years.
2012-08-29 2:47 PM
in reply to: #4386673

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Alpharetta, Georgia
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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
brooklynpatriot - 2012-08-29 2:38 PM
lisac957 - 2012-08-29 2:33 PM
brooklynpatriot - 2012-08-29 2:31 PM 

I don't have a mirror, maybe I should get one.  I can usually here cars coming, but sometimes I get int he zone when I ride on the right and I get passed by cars and never knew they were coming.  Sometimes it is windy/raining.

You yourself stated earlier that for your plan (of blatantly breaking the law and being unpredictable to motorists) to work, you had to be very aware and paying attention at all times.

You've just admitted that you don't. But you still want to proceed with your plan?

1.  Never said it was my plan, maybe you should work on your reading comprehension (how is that for snarky?).

2.  I never said I would have to be very aware and paying attention at all times.  Again, work on your reading comp.

3.  There is a difference between not being able to hear a car coming behind you and being so ridiculously out of it that you can't see a car that is coming right at you.

Have a nice day

If it's not your plan, why are you continuing to argue for 6 pages? 

You've stated numerous times you'd have 10 seconds to see the driver coming straight for you and react by riding into the shoulder or ditch. If you are zoned out, how are you going to do that in time?  

I don't think I'm the one with a reading comprehension problem...

2012-08-29 2:48 PM
in reply to: #4386694

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Deep in the Heart of Texas
Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
MUL98 - 2012-08-29 2:43 PM 

Almost all laws are subject to rational basis review.  If there is no rational basis for the law, it should be struck down. Let me guess. You've taken con law in undergrad and are strongly considering law school? A hint, get the legal education and then talk about application of the the rational basis test. It's only applicable when a law is constitutionally challenged. Trial courts don't just examine traffic laws for a rational basis on their own. Even assuming you got a court to hear your rational basis argument (which is itself unlikely), there is no doubt that your state legislature had a rational basis for requiring you to ride on the right side of the road. (It is the most lenient form of judicial review on constitutional questions.) But let's assume for a minute that you can play this out. You ride on the left, cop tickets you, you make an argument that the law is unconstitutional. You do realize that the traffic court you start out in is not going to strike down the law, right? To get to that result - which is not achievable anyway - you are going to have to at very least go to the Court of Appeals. More likely to the Supreme Court. Do you really want to spend that kind of time and money challenging a traffic law. (Just to lose in the end.) Of course most of this is likely moot, because the more likely result is that you wind up dead from riding the wrong way in traffic.

All that is required is that a rational basis can be articulated for the law and it doesn't have to be the reason proffered by the legislating body.  Good grief - was your law school even accredited? 



Edited by Hook'em 2012-08-29 2:50 PM


2012-08-29 2:50 PM
in reply to: #4386688

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
popsracer - 2012-08-29 3:41 PM

brooklynpatriot - 2012-08-29 12:33 PM  I apologize if I offended anyone in this thread, that was never my intention.  I'm just used to riding in parks where I don't have to worry about cars and I'm making the transition to riding on the road and riding on the right seemed counterintuitive.  I will probably continue riding on the right (as I have always done in cities), while I look into this.

I think this is a good idea to stay on the right side of the road until you are convinced this is the safest thing to do.  Seek out some experienced riders in your area and talk face to face with them.  They may be able to give some additional insight.  Good luck with your training.

Definitely.  You are very vulnerable riding on the road.  I think you're a little too worried about the risk.  Get out there, keep riding (on the right) and being aware.  The more you do it, the more confident you'll get and the more you can assess risky situations and the better you can handle yourself.

there are actually lots of courteous drivers out there

2012-08-29 2:50 PM
in reply to: #4386666

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
Goosedog - 2012-08-29 2:33 PM

Buy a cross bike and stay in the grass.

 

The jousting lance would work better on the tri bars.

2012-08-29 2:51 PM
in reply to: #4386708

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
Hook'em - 2012-08-29 2:48 PM

MUL98 - 2012-08-29 2:43 PM 

Almost all laws are subject to rational basis review.  If there is no rational basis for the law, it should be struck down. Let me guess. You've taken con law in undergrad and are strongly considering law school? A hint, get the legal education and then talk about application of the the rational basis test. It's only applicable when a law is constitutionally challenged. Trial courts don't just examine traffic laws for a rational basis on their own. Even assuming you got a court to hear your rational basis argument (which is itself unlikely), there is no doubt that your state legislature had a rational basis for requiring you to ride on the right side of the road. (It is the most lenient form of judicial review on constitutional questions.) But let's assume for a minute that you can play this out. You ride on the left, cop tickets you, you make an argument that the law is unconstitutional. You do realize that the traffic court you start out in is not going to strike down the law, right? To get to that result - which is not achievable anyway - you are going to have to at very least go to the Court of Appeals. More likely to the Supreme Court. Do you really want to spend that kind of time and money challenging a traffic law. (Just to lose in the end.) Of course most of this is likely moot, because the more likely result is that you wind up dead from riding the wrong way in traffic.

All that is required is that a rational basis can be articulated for the law and it doesn't have to be the reason proffered by the legislating body.  Good grief - was your law school even accredited? 



Last I checked it was, but they may have had it yanked for allowing me in.
2012-08-29 2:52 PM
in reply to: #4386266

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
New troll?
2012-08-29 2:57 PM
in reply to: #4386653

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
brooklynpatriot - 2012-08-29 3:29 PM
FeltonR.Nubbinsworth - 2012-08-29 2:12 PM

I will ...

Good post

1.  I agree

2.  A bad situation seems to be imminent only if the driver moves his car into the shoulder which he shouldn't have to do  if there is a car going the other way and if he does have to come into the shoulder I will see.

3.  I agree, but there are no blind corners on my 12.4 mile loop.  When I start adding distance I could repeat the loop.

5.  I;m lucky enough that there is a shoulder, if I absolutely had to hit the grass in a worst case scenario I would probably crash but better than the alternative

4.  The only thing I have to worry about would be glass or rocks on the side of the road and a driver wouldn't really be able to see that far in advance.  At least if I see it last second on my bike and I am on the left I can see if there are no cars and I can pull into the road.

I gave you five scenarios where it is proven safer on the right, instead of trying to fight that fact lay out scenarios that are safer on the left. you present one which you believe is safer,  I would label as mischaracterized. A distracted driver is not necessarily swerving left and right on the road, especially a straight one. They are most likely holding a straight line, while not noticing obstacles are in the road, at the last second they suddenly swerve to attempt to avoid the unseen object. Unfortunately having ridden as many miles as I have with cars driving behind you some will give wide passage (cross double yellows etc) and others will buzz you because they have this over inflated believe that they know there vehicle size down to the millimeter. Both of these drivers and the many in between are all paying attention. So how do you determine the difference between these normal drivers and distracted drivers, or is the plan to just stop for every car? if you are waiting to see if the car moves over, with a closing speed of 75 mph it is already too late, you will not have enough time to make any move other than maybe mouth the words "oh s***" before you meet the front bumper. All I can say to convince you is trust us, Over 20000 miles under the belt, never been hit from behind or the side (which is yet another reason to ride right, any cross streets, driveways on said country roads, guess which way they are looking for traffic.

one final thought .. I ride on 55 mph roads, usually around 20.. when a car passes it will feel like 35-40 and that can feel fast, I honestly don't know how safe i would feel if a car/truck passed at 60 when I am doing 20 .. that would feel like 80 mph and my pucker factor on descents is around 60, not sure how tense I would be if it felt like cars where going 80 but I bet it wouldn't be fun



Edited by FeltonR.Nubbinsworth 2012-08-29 2:58 PM


2012-08-29 3:00 PM
in reply to: #4386378

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
Why don't you just buy a rear view mirror for your helmet? Then you can see people coming from behind you.  If you think someone is swerving then you can still get out of the way.  Wouldn't a mirror pretty much solve all your problems and then you dont' have to worry about riding dangerously head on straight into traffic?
2012-08-29 3:03 PM
in reply to: #4386708

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
Hook'em - 2012-08-29 2:48 PM
MUL98 - 2012-08-29 2:43 PM 

Almost all laws are subject to rational basis review.  If there is no rational basis for the law, it should be struck down. Let me guess. You've taken con law in undergrad and are strongly considering law school? A hint, get the legal education and then talk about application of the the rational basis test. It's only applicable when a law is constitutionally challenged. Trial courts don't just examine traffic laws for a rational basis on their own. Even assuming you got a court to hear your rational basis argument (which is itself unlikely), there is no doubt that your state legislature had a rational basis for requiring you to ride on the right side of the road. (It is the most lenient form of judicial review on constitutional questions.) But let's assume for a minute that you can play this out. You ride on the left, cop tickets you, you make an argument that the law is unconstitutional. You do realize that the traffic court you start out in is not going to strike down the law, right? To get to that result - which is not achievable anyway - you are going to have to at very least go to the Court of Appeals. More likely to the Supreme Court. Do you really want to spend that kind of time and money challenging a traffic law. (Just to lose in the end.) Of course most of this is likely moot, because the more likely result is that you wind up dead from riding the wrong way in traffic.

All that is required is that a rational basis can be articulated for the law and it doesn't have to be the reason proffered by the legislating body.  Good grief - was your law school even accredited? 

Dunno, is Cornell Law accredited?  

2012-08-29 3:05 PM
in reply to: #4386464

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
Kido - 2012-08-29 2:36 PM

I, for one, say go for it.

Darwinism alive and well!

This I believe, is the best post and advice of the entire thread.

2012-08-29 3:07 PM
in reply to: #4386699

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Subject: RE: Safer to ride bike on the left side of the road in the country?
npenner02 - 2012-08-29 2:44 PM

You have said several times that no one has provided evidence, I actually have several times but it requires a little bit of knowledge of math to figure out and a basic understanding human reactions.  Not my fault if you can't understand that.

and to the person who asked what a sock is, same thing as a troll.  They are just trolling for reactions because they are bored at work.  They make up a fake screen name and use it so they don't have to use their regular name.

I actually acknowledged that people provided evidence.  And I already cogently responded to the reaction time argument.  Not going to continue to argue, if you want to read/invent what I wrote/allegedly wrote that's your choice.

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