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2013-06-18 3:31 AM

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Subject: Medical Groups Oppose Gun-Law Change To Share Mental Health Records
http://www.medicaldaily.com/articles/16603/20130617/gun-control-gun...

Anyone who didn't see this coming was smoking crack.




2013-06-18 8:02 AM
in reply to: DanielG

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Subject: RE: Medical Groups Oppose Gun-Law Change To Share Mental Health Records
In Canada, the number changes from year to year, but approx. 80-90% of gun deaths are from suicide. The majority are those suffering from a mental disease or disorder including depression. To get your P.A.L. (Possession Acquisition License) besides a criminal background check they also check into any mental disorders, domestic violence, etc. The simple point being that for the protection of oneself, and of the community at large, before you can get a firearm, they want to make sure your not a danger. They don't discourage people or make it overly difficult for a Canadian citizen to get a PAL..in fact its quite easy. But there are particular things that are asked on the application and certain background checks they do to make sure you don't fall into a high risk.

I know a lady who suffered from Depression in her teen years and before she received her PAL had to get an all clear from her medical doctor. Its a check and balance to make sure that those with firearms are competent to have them.

I know its a different concept and mentality in Canada, but I tend to agree with some sort of legislation in place to govern gun ownership. We have crazy anti gun lobbyists here who don't look at reality and won't be happy unless all guns are totally banned...when the facts are displayed about guns these "lobbyists" are for the most part dismissed. Its just about common sense and being an adult when owning a firearm. No different than a drivers license. You need to meet particular criteria to drive a multi tonne piece of metal....

In a way, it looks like the US is going through the proper steps. They know that the topic needs to be addressed. What it is...well thats the question I guess. People are arguing, questioning and debating....which is exactly what should happen. Hopefully after all the discussions there will be some sort of resolution. Maybe it means nothing changes, or minor changes or major changes...who could know at this point. But the fact that its underway is important. As a Canadian, I find it hard to believe that a hardened criminal can legally buy a gun in the US...but again, different culture up here, and guns are not a constitutional matter. I also find it hard to believe that someone with a severe mental disorder/disease can also purchase a firearm without any safety checks in place.


2013-06-18 12:25 PM
in reply to: TheCrownsOwn

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Subject: RE: Medical Groups Oppose Gun-Law Change To Share Mental Health Records
They bring up some compelling points.
2013-06-18 12:38 PM
in reply to: TheCrownsOwn

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Subject: RE: Medical Groups Oppose Gun-Law Change To Share Mental Health Records

Originally posted by TheCrownsOwn In Canada, the number changes from year to year, but approx. 80-90% of gun deaths are from suicide. 

I do understand the spirit of your post... but I am curious how you can have such a system, and yet 80-90% of your suicides come from firearms. In the U.S., roughly half are from guns... we have many many more guns, and no such checks.

2013-06-18 12:40 PM
in reply to: DanielG

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Subject: RE: Medical Groups Oppose Gun-Law Change To Share Mental Health Records

Originally posted by DanielG http://www.medicaldaily.com/articles/16603/20130617/gun-control-gun... Anyone who didn't see this coming was smoking crack.

That's the point, in order to do what many want to do... somebodies rights are getting stomped on for the gain of others. 2A, privacy, 4A... there is no free lunch anywhere.

2013-06-18 1:47 PM
in reply to: powerman

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Subject: RE: Medical Groups Oppose Gun-Law Change To Share Mental Health Records
Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by TheCrownsOwn In Canada, the number changes from year to year, but approx. 80-90% of gun deaths are from suicide. 

I do understand the spirit of your post... but I am curious how you can have such a system, and yet 80-90% of your suicides come from firearms. In the U.S., roughly half are from guns... we have many many more guns, and no such checks.

80 - 90 % of gun deaths are from suicides.  did not state the amount of suicides that are gun deaths.

quick wiki search says 2/3 or gun deaths in the US are suicides.  which means way more violent crimes here than there.



2013-06-18 5:27 PM
in reply to: mehaner

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Subject: RE: Medical Groups Oppose Gun-Law Change To Share Mental Health Records
Ah, the joy of statistics.  They can be interpreted and spun in so many fun ways.
2013-06-18 7:55 PM
in reply to: mehaner

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Subject: RE: Medical Groups Oppose Gun-Law Change To Share Mental Health Records
Originally posted by mehaner
Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by TheCrownsOwn In Canada, the number changes from year to year, but approx. 80-90% of gun deaths are from suicide. 

I do understand the spirit of your post... but I am curious how you can have such a system, and yet 80-90% of your suicides come from firearms. In the U.S., roughly half are from guns... we have many many more guns, and no such checks.

80 - 90 % of gun deaths are from suicides.  did not state the amount of suicides that are gun deaths.

quick wiki search says 2/3 or gun deaths in the US are suicides.  which means way more violent crimes here than there.

I totally read that wrong. Thanks for the correction.

According to last years gun stats by the CDC roughly half are from suicide... and a little over half the suicides are from guns.

2013-06-19 8:41 AM
in reply to: Kido

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Subject: RE: Medical Groups Oppose Gun-Law Change To Share Mental Health Records
Originally posted by Kido

Ah, the joy of statistics.  They can be interpreted and spun in so many fun ways.


Amen to that. "There are lies, damn lies, and then there are statistics." Mark Twain.

I don't want to take away from the OP topic, but a lot of the anti gun lobby approach is with convenient statistics that leave out the overall picture. Thats why after scrutiny the anti gun lobby doesn't gain much ground....

My reference was to the number of gun deaths related to suicide/mental illness. My opinion, is that there should be some sort of oversight because such a high number of deaths are related to this issue. Of course the next argument is that "well if you keep guns out of the hands of someone who wants to commit suicide, they will just find another means." This is a great argument, and one that deserves discussion....perhaps removing the stigma and addressing the problem at the root would help?

Again, two different countries. The US has current legislation in place protecting people's privacy. I totally get that. Much the same legislation in Canada. But when that legislation in Canada clashes with gun ownership there has been some middle ground reached to respect people's privacy and freedom to own a firearm while still ensuring the safety of the individual, and society as a whole. With the US having gun rights enshrined constitutionally, it becomes a different ball game. I don't know what the answer is...but I like the discussion and following what americans have to say.

What is the difference between an amendment to the constitution and the constitution itself? Can you amend amendments or are they simply clarifications on the original document? If you can't change your amendments, then I think any legislation is almost moot isn't it?


2013-06-19 8:45 AM
in reply to: mehaner

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Subject: RE: Medical Groups Oppose Gun-Law Change To Share Mental Health Records
Originally posted by mehaner

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by TheCrownsOwn In Canada, the number changes from year to year, but approx. 80-90% of gun deaths are from suicide. 

I do understand the spirit of your post... but I am curious how you can have such a system, and yet 80-90% of your suicides come from firearms. In the U.S., roughly half are from guns... we have many many more guns, and no such checks.

80 - 90 % of gun deaths are from suicides.  did not state the amount of suicides that are gun deaths.

quick wiki search says 2/3 or gun deaths in the US are suicides.  which means way more violent crimes here than there.




Yes. Your clarification on suicides and gun deaths in Canada is correct. Thanks for that!

But I'm not sure about the logic in your second statement. Because 2/3 of gun deaths in the US are suicides, how does that translate into the rest being from violent crime? There is also accidental discharge (slamfire freaks me out.), law enforcement, etc.

I know it's temping to get lost in statistics but they do provide some useful information.
2013-06-19 2:04 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Medical Groups Oppose Gun-Law Change To Share Mental Health Records

Originally posted by TheCrownsOwn What is the difference between an amendment to the constitution and the constitution itself? Can you amend amendments or are they simply clarifications on the original document? If you can't change your amendments, then I think any legislation is almost moot isn't it?

There is no difference, it is the Constitution. There is a process for changing it.



Edited by powerman 2013-06-19 2:06 PM


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