General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Adapting HIM Training Plan from 3 runs a week to 6 Rss Feed  
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2013-06-25 5:17 PM

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Subject: Adapting HIM Training Plan from 3 runs a week to 6
hey guys,
so I am hoping that I can prevail on some of the more experienced triathlete's out there to help me with that - especially those that are doing the 6 days a week running plan for training (using Barry P's 3:2:1 plan).

I am just starting on an 18 week HIM training plan (today is day 2), but looking at it, it only has me running for 3 days a week and i'm concerned about long term causing issues by ramping up in time/distance too soon (and I have a tendency to go overboard with training sometimes)...so I want to adjust it to a 6 day a week running - but could use thoughts/inputs on how to structure the runs (where to put the short/medium ones specifically).

This is the plan: http://www.trinewbies.com/tno_trainingprograms/tno_HIM.asp

Right now it is:

M - Swim am; Bike pm
T - Swim am; Run pm
W - Bike pm
Th - Swim am; Run pm
F - day off
Sa - Run am
Su - Bike am

What I'm thinking is:

M - Swim am; Bike pm; Run (s)pm
T - Swim am; Run (m) pm
W - Run (s) am; Bike pm
Th - Swim am; Run (m) pm
F - off - because at the end of the week, i'm just done...
Sa - Run (l)am
Su - Bike am; Run (s)pm - although may consider making this a brick every other weekend

so it would be short (Monday, Wed, Sun); Middle (Tuesday, Thursday) and Long Sun

Would that be doable? advisable? or should I tweak it in some other ways? (considering flipping sat/sun bike/run workouts for example)

Any help would be greatly appreciated


2013-06-25 5:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Adapting HIM Training Plan from 3 runs a week to 6

Your current plan is pretty standard fair for an HIM plan and is just fine for most.  I've done something similar and when I decided to ramp up my running I first added a 20 minute run off my Sunday long ride to get me to four runs.  Then I added a short, easy run on my rest day to get me to five.  If you want to stay with 6 run/3 swim/3 bike per week it gets really hard to get all that in and still have any kind of life.  I've yet to get that sixth run per week in while doing the other disciplines. 

I guess it's a little late now but the off season is a great time to build a six run per week plan and build that base then and drop a run or two and up the distance/intensity as the season gets going.



Edited by popsracer 2013-06-25 5:42 PM
2013-06-25 5:44 PM
in reply to: austhokie

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Subject: RE: Adapting HIM Training Plan from 3 runs a week to 6

(and I have a tendency to go overboard with training sometimes

 

I'm just highlighting one of the two important parts of your question.

The other part is where you add runs nearly every day but don't seem to back off the swim /bike.   So yes, I think you've proven your point 

In reality there's no way to answer your question though without knowing your run background, current fitness and goal run time

Just my own personal experience, I PR'd my Half mary time (open or HIM) at my last HIM on 3X a week, with the occasional 4th.  I am by no means fast however at 1:55, so take it with a grain of salt

2013-06-25 5:53 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Subject: RE: Adapting HIM Training Plan from 3 runs a week to 6
my goal for the HIM is to finish...lol!

this is my first full season back after 2 years off with an undiagnosed knee injury (fell down the stairs one night...navy medicine - yay - gave me ibuprofen and a brace and nothing else...they finally did an MRI 4 months and 6 appointments later...) - the MRI didn't find anything - but they said it could be that there is a tiny tear they couldn't see, or that it could have healed enough that it didn't show...i've been doing chiropractic, myofascia massage and PT for the last year to help with it - and that seems to be working

my plan with the running was to take the time assigned (so this week was 120 minutes) - do algebra like I swore I would never do in school - and figure out the times for the workouts - as long as I didn't screw up the math - they would be:
short - 12 minutes
middle - 24 minutes
long - 36 minutes

I would say that my swim/bike is probably the stronger 2 of the 3...my run always sucks - which is why I think I am analyzing it the most

my fastest HM time was 2:17, but that was before knee injury - i've only done one since then and I didn't train for it like I should (my goal time for it was 3 hours - which I did)
2013-06-25 5:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Adapting HIM Training Plan from 3 runs a week to 6

OK, I'd just be really careful.  I've tried the BarryP approach and wish it worked for me, but I seem to do better on 3-4 X a week.  I think that was more the result of doing heavy bike work and running the next day.  If you are adding frequency but no additional volume it's probably OK, but like popsracer said, you are going to be very busy.....  Good luck with it

ETA looking closer - the ones I'd be worried about are the run off the bike monday, then the back to back night/morning runs.  You really want to make sure each run is quality and has a purpose, rather than simply packing in the miles (IMO, but I am not a coach, so more salt )



Edited by ChrisM 2013-06-25 5:59 PM
2013-06-25 6:00 PM
in reply to: popsracer

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Subject: RE: Adapting HIM Training Plan from 3 runs a week to 6
Originally posted by popsracer

Your current plan is pretty standard fair for an HIM plan and is just fine for most.  I've done something similar and when I decided to ramp up my running I first added a 20 minute run off my Sunday long ride to get me to four runs.  Then I added a short, easy run on my rest day to get me to five.  If you want to stay with 6 run/3 swim/3 bike per week it gets really hard to get all that in and still have any kind of life.  I've yet to get that sixth run per week in while doing the other disciplines. 

I guess it's a little late now but the off season is a great time to build a six run per week plan and build that base then and drop a run or two and up the distance/intensity as the season gets going.

I agree with this and actually currently following it. In the off season I pushed up to 6 days a week and reached around 35-40mpw. Once my HIM plan started and the runs dropped I was concerned it wasn't enough! But I found that the increased intensity had replaced a lot of the mileage, and it does not appear I'm losing any base from the winter build! I can still hold the same 5k time and was able to get in a longer run with minimal effort this last weekend!

so in short follow the plan, and if possible add time to the bike!


2013-06-25 6:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Adapting HIM Training Plan from 3 runs a week to 6

I am a huge advocate for running frequency.  It also goes to say that I'm also a huge advocate of running more volume which most plans (including the one you linked) fall sort of...IMO anyway.

You certainly could take this plan and adapt it to 6x running per week, but you'll end up with a lot of very short runs at 20 minutes or less assuming you can't handle any more volume than the plan is suggesting.  So maybe adapting this plan more towards 4-5 runs a week would make more sense unless you really do want a lot of really short runs.

The reason why increasing run frequency is great is that it allows you to build a good chunk of volume over time.  This is the key...it still takes time.  You can't just go from 3x per week at 120 minutes total to 6x per week at 200 minutes total just because you've increased frequency. 

What type of running experience do you have?  How much have you been running (miles or minutes) per week the past 4-6 months?



Edited by Jason N 2013-06-25 6:08 PM
2013-06-25 6:08 PM
in reply to: popsracer

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Subject: RE: Adapting HIM Training Plan from 3 runs a week to 6
lol - I already have no life having just got out of the military and for the last 4 years doing shift work (not now) - I was pretty much a homebody and i'm content with that - single with no kids (have 3 dogs - one of which goes running with me) - and as of right now my work does not fall into the mentally/physically challenge - waiting on some approvals to come though
2013-06-25 6:11 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: Adapting HIM Training Plan from 3 runs a week to 6
i've been kind of piece-meal with my running over the last 4-6 weeks because it is my least favorite part...I like to swim/bike - so when i've had a long/bad day at work, I tend to go that route...lol (but hey, part of dealing with a problem is admitting that you have one right?)

I did a half-marathon in May (the MCM Half in Fredericksburg - my time was pretty sucky - 2:50 - but I finished it) and I didn't train like a should - since then i've been making a concentrated effort to run more...but yeah....
2013-06-25 6:12 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: Adapting HIM Training Plan from 3 runs a week to 6
i was planning at least for now to get the times the same - yeah, its going to make for some short runs (like 12 minutes, this week, which is a tad over a mile) - but I have a pretty decent route in my neighbourhood that I can tweak to different distances - on a circle sub-division with lots of side-streets for ins and outs...
2013-06-25 6:22 PM
in reply to: austhokie

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Subject: RE: Adapting HIM Training Plan from 3 runs a week to 6
listening to what you guys are saying (yes, I actually was ) - I could possibly cut out the monday run - and do 5 runs a week - redistribute the time from that run across the other 5 - and go for quality rather than quantity


2013-06-25 8:26 PM
in reply to: austhokie

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Subject: RE: Adapting HIM Training Plan from 3 runs a week to 6
Based on what you've written, it sounds like you probably need to distinguish what will get you through your upcoming HIM, and what will allow you to get sustainable run fitness in the longer term. As others are saying, building to a good run mileage takes some time, though it's worthwhile. If you're currently only running ~10 mpw, would you be fine with doing a run/walk approach for the upcoming HIM? If you're concerned about injuries, then I would advise against the "quality over quantity" approach -- that is just asking for trouble, unless you're < 30.

For what it's worth, I've combined the BarryP 3-2-1 approach with HIM training in the following way:

- I run every day, aiming for the ~40 mpw that I need to be in half marathon shape
- On one day I do a long run of 10-12 miles and no S/B
- On the other 6 days I do either S or B, followed by a steady run. The additional run time doesn't add a whole lot to the workout
- I tend to do the shorter runs on the bike days, and the medium runs on the swim days

A caveat to this is that I don't really do enough swimming. I do just enough so that I can be mediocre in a wetsuit-legal swim, and devote most of my energies to the bike and run.
2013-06-25 8:56 PM
in reply to: colinphillips

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Subject: RE: Adapting HIM Training Plan from 3 runs a week to 6
my HIM isn't until end of October - so i'm hoping with that base I have - while not running, I was doing some sort of cardio 4-5 times a week (quite a bit of spin/trainer)

i'm just over 30 (but a woman never reveals her age or weight right?)

thanks for everyones advice - i'm going to took around with it and see what works the best - while not worried about an injury (per say) - I have a lovely case of PF in my left foot that decides to rear its ugly head occasionally - its past the acute phase and more just hey, i'm here, don't f with me too much
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