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2013-07-22 3:31 PM

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Subject: I am in, over my head!
Signed up for Savageman. Went to SavageCamp. Failed to finish the bike course.

Was the hardest cycling I have ever done x 10. Mile 18-43 are the hardest 25 miles in triathlon, maybe the hardest thing on a bicycle.

Name Location "Savage" Category Length Avg Grade Max Grade
Toothpick 0.5 mi 4th Savagery 0.25 mi 9% 16%
Westernport 18.5 mi Hors Savage 1.2 mi 12% 31%
Big Savage Mtn 23.4 mi 1st Savagery 2.4 mi 6% 21%
Elk Lick 30.0 mi 4th Savagery 2.8 mi 4% 7%
McAndrews Hill 32.8 mi 2nd Savagery 0.6 mi 9% 19%
Otto Lane 35.1 mi 2nd Savagery 0.6 mi 8% 17%
Killer Miller 38.1 mi Hors Savage 1.3 mi 8% 22%
Maynardier Ridge 43.8 mi 3rd Savagery 0.25 mi 12% 23%

http://www.winthefight.org/savageman/Bike_Course.html


2013-07-22 3:38 PM
in reply to: pga_mike

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!

Originally posted by pga_mike Signed up for Savageman. Went to SavageCamp. Failed to finish the bike course. Was the hardest cycling I have ever done x 10. Mile 18-43 are the hardest 25 miles in triathlon, maybe the hardest thing on a bicycle. Name Location "Savage" Category Length Avg Grade Max Grade Toothpick 0.5 mi 4th Savagery 0.25 mi 9% 16% Westernport 18.5 mi Hors Savage 1.2 mi 12% 31% Big Savage Mtn 23.4 mi 1st Savagery 2.4 mi 6% 21% Elk Lick 30.0 mi 4th Savagery 2.8 mi 4% 7% McAndrews Hill 32.8 mi 2nd Savagery 0.6 mi 9% 19% Otto Lane 35.1 mi 2nd Savagery 0.6 mi 8% 17% Killer Miller 38.1 mi Hors Savage 1.3 mi 8% 22% Maynardier Ridge 43.8 mi 3rd Savagery 0.25 mi 12% 23% http://www.winthefight.org/savageman/Bike_Course.html

Make sure you get some good shots of you rolling down the hill backwards on race day.  Laughing

2013-07-22 3:42 PM
in reply to: pga_mike

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
Good luck with that!
2013-07-22 4:01 PM
in reply to: MLPFS

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!

SM was my third (ever) tri and it kicked my ... butt. HARD.

I came to this sport with no cycling background (swimmer and runner) and holy crap was that a hard, hard day. I truly think it was harder for me than my IM (of course, I was much better prepared for my IM AND it was a flat course!)

It is a stunning course, though, so while you are cursing the hills, enjoy the scenery

(also a very well put together race with great volunteers and funny signs )

2013-07-22 4:04 PM
in reply to: trishie

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
2013-07-22 4:08 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!

Make sure you get some good shots of you rolling down the hill backwards on race day.  Laughing

Can I just say you are my favorite poster on BT?  that was awesome (sorry Mike   )



2013-07-22 4:40 PM
in reply to: trishie

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!

Trish- Just read your blog race report- You are awesome!!! What a race!!

One thing struck me as funny you said you remembered your goals were to finish and have fun... Im just thinking a triathlete's definition of 'have fun' is probably not normal Laughing

2013-07-22 4:46 PM
in reply to: trishie

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
I was thinking about doing Savageman but after talking to many of my tri friends they talked me out of it. They all told me that it was harder than many of the full IMs that they had done. However they did say that it felt more rewarding after finishing. Good luck and most of all have fun with it!
2013-07-22 5:06 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by pga_mike Signed up for Savageman. Went to SavageCamp. Failed to finish the bike course. Was the hardest cycling I have ever done x 10. Mile 18-43 are the hardest 25 miles in triathlon, maybe the hardest thing on a bicycle. Name Location "Savage" Category Length Avg Grade Max Grade Toothpick 0.5 mi 4th Savagery 0.25 mi 9% 16% Westernport 18.5 mi Hors Savage 1.2 mi 12% 31% Big Savage Mtn 23.4 mi 1st Savagery 2.4 mi 6% 21% Elk Lick 30.0 mi 4th Savagery 2.8 mi 4% 7% McAndrews Hill 32.8 mi 2nd Savagery 0.6 mi 9% 19% Otto Lane 35.1 mi 2nd Savagery 0.6 mi 8% 17% Killer Miller 38.1 mi Hors Savage 1.3 mi 8% 22% Maynardier Ridge 43.8 mi 3rd Savagery 0.25 mi 12% 23% http://www.winthefight.org/savageman/Bike_Course.html

Make sure you get some good shots of you rolling down the hill backwards on race day.  Laughing

Ditto. Don't think the brick has a requirement of always going forward. Just don't touch the ground.

2013-07-22 6:01 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
Originally posted by ChrisM

Make sure you get some good shots of you rolling down the hill backwards on race day.  Laughing

Can I just say you are my favorite poster on BT?  that was awesome (sorry Mike   )

This is awesome!  Laughing

In all seriousness, Mike, what kind of gearing are you running?  When I did Savageman, my pre-ride of the course intimidated me a bit too, even though I was on my son's road bike with a triple.  As a result, I switched my tri bike rings to a compact, and replaced the cog so my largest was a 28T, giving me an easiest gearing close to what my son has in his granny gear with his triple.  On race day, I had the comfortable familiarity of my tri bike combined with hill-friendly gearing.

2013-07-22 6:32 PM
in reply to: pga_mike

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
I'm doing SavageMan too, and it has been weighing on my mind. I have lots of sustained climbs around here for training, but nothing thats 31%. Probably 15%-20% is the most grade I can find. I'm also still sitting on the road-bike/tri-bike fence. I'm thinking of flying out a day early so I can get in some practice runs on the Westernport Wall.

At least the swim is flat.


2013-07-22 7:38 PM
in reply to: rockymtnhigh

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
Originally posted by rockymtnhigh

I'm doing SavageMan too, and it has been weighing on my mind. I have lots of sustained climbs around here for training, but nothing thats 31%. Probably 15%-20% is the most grade I can find. I'm also still sitting on the road-bike/tri-bike fence. I'm thinking of flying out a day early so I can get in some practice runs on the Westernport Wall.

At least the swim is flat.

A) Even the swim is uphill
B) I made it up the WALL during SAVAGECAMP. Immediately after the Wall, you head up another 600' in 1.5 Miles. That didn't break me.
C) The next two climbs did not break me either, which include 1200' in 5 miles. I broke my spoke on the 4th serious climb, McAndrews climb. They DID offer me another wheel, but honestly, I was fried.

To get ready for it, I have found an area near me that has steep climbs (max 14%) between 1-2 miles in a very short loop. I will be visiting this loop at least 3 days / week. I am also returning for a visit to have my revenge on the Savagery. There is nothing like it in triathlon.

I am running a compact and 26 on both my tri and roadbike. I may be switching to a mountain bike derallieur so I can slap on a 32. Not for the wall. For the other 5900' of climbing. And switching from my tri during camp to my roadbike for the race. There are some technical descents that I would be able to attach better on my roadie. On the other side, there are some other descents that I hammered on my tri, but I think that the road bike is a SAFER choice. The tri bike COULD BE FASTER, but not significantly so (for me).

That is it.
2013-07-22 7:56 PM
in reply to: pga_mike

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
Did you make it to Killer Miller? IMO, that's the worst climb on the course. It may not be as steep as the Westernport wall, or as long as the climb up Big Savage Mountain after the wall, but it's long enough and steep enough to punch you right between the eyes after all those other miles of climbing.
2013-07-22 8:30 PM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!

Originally posted by TriMyBest Did you make it to Killer Miller? IMO, that's the worst climb on the course. It may not be as steep as the Westernport wall, or as long as the climb up Big Savage Mountain after the wall, but it's long enough and steep enough to punch you right between the eyes after all those other miles of climbing.

I've seen many others say the same thing.

And fyi, SRAM does have 32t capability with the WiFli versions of their road derailleurs, so it's possible to get a full-time setup that is capable of it. I forget off-hand if Shimano has that much yet.

2013-07-22 8:39 PM
in reply to: pga_mike

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
When I think of doing a race like this I start to get nauseated and have tunnel vision. You all are sick sickos. I love it.
2013-07-22 8:42 PM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
I'm signed up for Savageman also and have been trying to get in as much hill work (both riding and running) as I can. My goal is to do the bike course without putting a foot down and have a smile on my face as I cross the finish line. Killer Miller has me worried the most of all the hills because of where it is during the ride. I hope to get out there soon to take in a practice ride and run.


2013-07-22 8:45 PM
in reply to: pga_mike

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
Great that you'll be doing Savageman, Mike - looking forward to the RR in a couple of months!

I did it last year. I was terrified ahead of time (the Garrett Co Gran Fondo had put the Fear of God into me), but I had the most fun I've ever had in a triathlon. Just a fantastic event. I didn't care about my overall time, I just wanted to survive the course, earn a brick, and then see what was left for the run leg. Check on all counts. The race had a different atmosphere than any other I've done, as it felt that everybody was competing against, and appreciating, the great course, rather than racing against each other.

I left my tri bike at home and used my roadie. I very much appreciated the greater control it gave me on the ups and downs. At the time I was running a smallest gear of 34x27. I recently changed it to 34x28 for my rematch with GCGF, and that one extra tooth was noticeable. Right now the bike is in the shop getting a longer rear derailleur cage so that I can go to 34x32 for my date w/ Mt Washington next month.

I know that there are some good climbs on your side of the Potomac, but FWIW when I'm trying to simulate the climbing in Garrett County I head up to the Catoctins near Frederick, MD, where there are climbs that simulate what you find a couple of hours further west. This ride is my "reality check":
http://ridewithgps.com/routes/735007
If I can make it up Coxey Brown Rd after a few hours of climbing, then I'm ready for most things that Kyle Yost can throw at me.
The other thing that I did to prep for Savageman is 4-5 minute maximal effort intervals on the trainer.

Good luck!
2013-07-22 8:52 PM
in reply to: pga_mike

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
Originally posted by pga_mike

Originally posted by rockymtnhigh

I'm doing SavageMan too, and it has been weighing on my mind. I have lots of sustained climbs around here for training, but nothing thats 31%. Probably 15%-20% is the most grade I can find. I'm also still sitting on the road-bike/tri-bike fence. I'm thinking of flying out a day early so I can get in some practice runs on the Westernport Wall.

At least the swim is flat.

A) Even the swim is uphill
B) I made it up the WALL during SAVAGECAMP. Immediately after the Wall, you head up another 600' in 1.5 Miles. That didn't break me.
C) The next two climbs did not break me either, which include 1200' in 5 miles. I broke my spoke on the 4th serious climb, McAndrews climb. They DID offer me another wheel, but honestly, I was fried.

To get ready for it, I have found an area near me that has steep climbs (max 14%) between 1-2 miles in a very short loop. I will be visiting this loop at least 3 days / week. I am also returning for a visit to have my revenge on the Savagery. There is nothing like it in triathlon.

I am running a compact and 26 on both my tri and roadbike. I may be switching to a mountain bike derallieur so I can slap on a 32. Not for the wall. For the other 5900' of climbing. And switching from my tri during camp to my roadbike for the race. There are some technical descents that I would be able to attach better on my roadie. On the other side, there are some other descents that I hammered on my tri, but I think that the road bike is a SAFER choice. The tri bike COULD BE FASTER, but not significantly so (for me).

That is it.


I have a compact and a 27 on the back on both my roadie and TT bike -- I *think* that'll be sufficient. My roadie climbs a little better than my TT bike, but is noticeably slower at full speed. I'm confident going down (to borrow from the recent Jens Voight thread ), so either bike is OK for the descents -- the TT bike corners slightly slower, but makes up for it in speed between corners. So, like you, I think the TT bike would be faster, but in the end, I'll likely put my race wheels on my roadie and ride that.

I'm concerned about popping the front wheel off the ground up the 31% grade, so I need to find a comparable grade to practice on.
2013-07-22 9:27 PM
in reply to: colinphillips

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
Originally posted by colinphillips

Great that you'll be doing Savageman, Mike - looking forward to the RR in a couple of months!

I did it last year. I was terrified ahead of time (the Garrett Co Gran Fondo had put the Fear of God into me), but I had the most fun I've ever had in a triathlon. Just a fantastic event. I didn't care about my overall time, I just wanted to survive the course, earn a brick, and then see what was left for the run leg. Check on all counts. The race had a different atmosphere than any other I've done, as it felt that everybody was competing against, and appreciating, the great course, rather than racing against each other.

I left my tri bike at home and used my roadie. I very much appreciated the greater control it gave me on the ups and downs. At the time I was running a smallest gear of 34x27. I recently changed it to 34x28 for my rematch with GCGF, and that one extra tooth was noticeable. Right now the bike is in the shop getting a longer rear derailleur cage so that I can go to 34x32 for my date w/ Mt Washington next month.

I know that there are some good climbs on your side of the Potomac, but FWIW when I'm trying to simulate the climbing in Garrett County I head up to the Catoctins near Frederick, MD, where there are climbs that simulate what you find a couple of hours further west. This ride is my "reality check":
http://ridewithgps.com/routes/735007
If I can make it up Coxey Brown Rd after a few hours of climbing, then I'm ready for most things that Kyle Yost can throw at me.
The other thing that I did to prep for Savageman is 4-5 minute maximal effort intervals on the trainer.

Good luck!


That ride looks like a blast! I was also thinking of adding a weekly workout with 5 x 4min intervals to increase the short duration power for the steeper climbs.

I did this ride last weekend: http://www.teamevergreen.org/sites/default/files/TripleBypass2013Ro...

I love hills...

2013-07-22 9:33 PM
in reply to: rockymtnhigh

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
Originally posted by rockymtnhigh

I did this ride last weekend: http://www.teamevergreen.org/sites/default/files/TripleBypass2013Ro...

Yes, I did that one in '11. So very different from the climbing out here. In Triple Bypass the climbs are never very steep, but they go on forever. In the Appalachians they're never very long, but they are nasty. I think that road engineering skills got better as the country expanded westwards.

I love hills.


You are so sick.

Me too.
2013-07-22 9:41 PM
in reply to: colinphillips

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!

Originally posted by colinphillips  I know that there are some good climbs on your side of the Potomac, but FWIW when I'm trying to simulate the climbing in Garrett County I head up to the Catoctins near Frederick, MD, where there are climbs that simulate what you find a couple of hours further west. This ride is my "reality check": http://ridewithgps.com/routes/735007If I can make it up Coxey Brown Rd after a few hours of climbing, then I'm ready for most things that Kyle Yost can throw at me. The other thing that I did to prep for Savageman is 4-5 minute maximal effort intervals on the trainer. Good luck!

Colin, is this one part of an event or just a ride you did? I'm marking down all of these. Smile

And good luck with Mt Washington! I went out a few years back, but the weather didn't cooperate that weekend.



2013-07-22 9:49 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by colinphillips  I know that there are some good climbs on your side of the Potomac, but FWIW when I'm trying to simulate the climbing in Garrett County I head up to the Catoctins near Frederick, MD, where there are climbs that simulate what you find a couple of hours further west. This ride is my "reality check": http://ridewithgps.com/routes/735007If I can make it up Coxey Brown Rd after a few hours of climbing, then I'm ready for most things that Kyle Yost can throw at me. The other thing that I did to prep for Savageman is 4-5 minute maximal effort intervals on the trainer. Good luck!

Colin, is this one part of an event or just a ride you did? I'm marking down all of these. Smile

And good luck with Mt Washington! I went out a few years back, but the weather didn't cooperate that weekend.




Not an organized event. I learned about it via the Frederick Bicycle Coalition's website. They credit the route to Jeff Schalk, a pretty strong mtn biker. It starts and finishes right by a nice brewpub. So it *ought* to be an organized event.
2013-07-23 12:23 AM
in reply to: colinphillips

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
This race is definitely on my bucket list. I had a decent run after the Branson 70.3 course so that gives me some confidence with regards to Savageman. It's tough to find good hills in Kansas though. The locals pointed this one out so repeats on this one will certainly help. It was something to see my speed slow to 6 mph on this one. I wish I had words of wisdom fo ryou Mike. Chicks like guys that "go for it" and the scars that go with it. That's all I've got....



(Ogg Hill.JPG)



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2013-07-23 7:40 AM
in reply to: reecealan

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!

Originally posted by reecealan This race is definitely on my bucket list. I had a decent run after the Branson 70.3 course so that gives me some confidence with regards to Savageman. It's tough to find good hills in Kansas though. The locals pointed this one out so repeats on this one will certainly help. It was something to see my speed slow to 6 mph on this one. I wish I had words of wisdom fo ryou Mike. Chicks like guys that "go for it" and the scars that go with it. That's all I've got....

From what I know of the courses, Branson has loads of volume for hills, but aren't necessarily that steep. Getting over to the Appalachians is different, the hills can have multiple sections on them like what you posted. Some of the backroads stuff I get to in Wisconsin can do that as well. A strava segment had me putting out 358 (almost 4.5 w/kg) to average just over 6 mph. Within that section I was breaking 400 at times just to go 4.5. Those are the kinds of thing you need to both gear for and train for really hard hills like with Savageman. Do various lengths of hard intervals to work on that and you'll be ok. Going straight through at a fairly steady effort on 20' intervals does help your fitness, but also be able to vary your power within that. Know how to attack rather hard and recover in the middle to late parts of that. Also note the intervals the others mentioned earlier, basically VO2 intervals of 4-5 minutes. Like them, I also found those quite helpful for the steeper hills.

2013-07-23 7:44 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
Originally posted by Left Brain

p>Make sure you get some good shots of you rolling down the hill backwards on race day.  Laughing




This made me laugh out loud at my desk!

Seriously though, best of luck with that!!!

Patti (in VERY FLAT New Jersey)
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