Olympic Nutrition
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2013-08-10 9:52 AM |
Member 347 Scottsdale, AZ | Subject: Olympic Nutrition So I'm in the middle of IMAZ training and am doing an Olympic tri on Sunday as part of my training plan. I've been solely focused on IM distance nutrition and realized I'm not sure what to do during an Olympic. Do you guys go more the liquid route since its a "short" race as opposed to solid food? I use both (Infinit and Powerbar) in my training and can't decide what to do tomorrow. I think I'll finish in around 2:40 hours (with the bike taking about 1:15 and the run under an hour). |
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2013-08-10 1:50 PM in reply to: devilfan02 |
Extreme Veteran 650 Sacramento, California | Subject: RE: Olympic Nutrition I do 1 powerbar gel every 30 min on the bike and drink 1 to 1.5 bottle of IM Perform. On the run I eat 1 cliff block every 2 miles and take the water on the course. I can handle caffeine so all of the above are caffeinated. |
2013-08-10 1:51 PM in reply to: devilfan02 |
282 | Subject: RE: Olympic Nutrition I am doing an Oylmpic tri on sunday as well. Mine is my first triathlon so don't put too much stock in what I'm doing, but for what it's worth here is my plan: Swim: Drink lots of ocean water, eat a bit of seaweed. Bike: Powerbar Powergel at 0km, 13km, 26km, 39km. 2 waterbottles, 1 with water, 1 with VegaSport Electrolyte Hydrator Run: Powerbar Energy Chews at 2.5km, 5km, 7.5km |
2013-08-10 2:23 PM in reply to: devilfan02 |
Expert 1130 Fernandina Beach, FL | Subject: RE: Olympic Nutrition Originally posted by devilfan02 So I'm in the middle of IMAZ training and am doing an Olympic tri on Sunday as part of my training plan. I've been solely focused on IM distance nutrition and realized I'm not sure what to do during an Olympic. Do you guys go more the liquid route since its a "short" race as opposed to solid food? I use both (Infinit and Powerbar) in my training and can't decide what to do tomorrow. I think I'll finish in around 2:40 hours (with the bike taking about 1:15 and the run under an hour). I use Infinit too and use a 300cal custom bike blend on the bike. If I was feeling like I needed it (I did/do) I'd take a caffeinated gel in T2 before the run |
2013-08-10 2:29 PM in reply to: Chillin |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Olympic Nutrition Originally posted by ChillinI am doing an Oylmpic tri on sunday as well. Mine is my first triathlon so don't put too much stock in what I'm doing, but for what it's worth here is my plan:Swim: Drink lots of ocean water, eat a bit of seaweed.Bike: Powerbar Powergel at 0km, 13km, 26km, 39km. 2 waterbottles, 1 with water, 1 with VegaSport Electrolyte HydratorRun: Powerbar Energy Chews at 2.5km, 5km, 7.5km Wow, that's a lot. An Olympic doesn't require much in the way of in-race fueling. Eat a normal pre-training breakfast 2+ hours before the start, a gel with some water about 30 minutes before the start, then possibly 1-2 gels or 100-200 calories (300 max) in another form during the first 2/3 of the bike. Nothing but some water and possibly a swish of sports drink during the run. For me personally, it's an average of 1 bike bottle of water during the bike and 140-200 calories of shot blocks. Nothing or a few sips of water if it's hot for the run. |
2013-08-10 2:44 PM in reply to: TriMyBest |
282 | Subject: RE: Olympic Nutrition Originally posted by TriMyBest Originally posted by ChillinI am doing an Oylmpic tri on sunday as well. Mine is my first triathlon so don't put too much stock in what I'm doing, but for what it's worth here is my plan:Swim: Drink lots of ocean water, eat a bit of seaweed.Bike: Powerbar Powergel at 0km, 13km, 26km, 39km. 2 waterbottles, 1 with water, 1 with VegaSport Electrolyte HydratorRun: Powerbar Energy Chews at 2.5km, 5km, 7.5km Wow, that's a lot. An Olympic doesn't require much in the way of in-race fueling. Eat a normal pre-training breakfast 2+ hours before the start, a gel with some water about 30 minutes before the start, then possibly 1-2 gels or 100-200 calories (300 max) in another form during the first 2/3 of the bike. Nothing but some water and possibly a swish of sports drink during the run. For me personally, it's an average of 1 bike bottle of water during the bike and 140-200 calories of shot blocks. Nothing or a few sips of water if it's hot for the run. Yes it is. I tend to under fuel and fade because of it. Eating too little can hurt me, eating too much can't (within reason of course), so it's Far better to consume too much. |
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2013-08-10 2:56 PM in reply to: Chillin |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Olympic Nutrition Originally posted by Chillin Yes it is. I tend to under fuel and fade because of it. Eating too little can hurt me, eating too much can't (within reason of course), so it's Far better to consume too much. This is actually incorrect; too much is likely much worse (bloating, cramping, vomitting) than too little (slight fading of pace). For most athletes, at oly distance effort, the max they can absorb would be about 150Cal/hour and this would be where I would start for planning. Also, eating as soon as you get on the bike and right before you get off to run are bad ideas and you would be better to do all fueling between 10-30km. On the run, a sip of sports drink at each aid station should be all you need. Good luck, Shane |
2013-08-10 3:01 PM in reply to: gsmacleod |
282 | Subject: RE: Olympic Nutrition Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by Chillin Yes it is. I tend to under fuel and fade because of it. Eating too little can hurt me, eating too much can't (within reason of course), so it's Far better to consume too much. This is actually incorrect; too much is likely much worse (bloating, cramping, vomitting) than too little (slight fading of pace). For most athletes, at oly distance effort, the max they can absorb would be about 150Cal/hour and this would be where I would start for planning. Also, eating as soon as you get on the bike and right before you get off to run are bad ideas and you would be better to do all fueling between 10-30km. On the run, a sip of sports drink at each aid station should be all you need. Good luck, Shane Too much Could cause bloating, camping and vomiting sure, but there is no way 1 or 2 extra gels could do that. Certainly not for me anyways. I always feel Way better when I eat too much vs. too little. |
2013-08-10 3:09 PM in reply to: Chillin |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Olympic Nutrition Originally posted by Chillin One or two extra gels can do that. More usually isn't better, especially in short course racing. BTW, IME, fading in short course is a fitness/ pacing issue much more frequently than it's a fueling issue.Originally posted by gsmacleod Too much Could cause bloating, camping and vomiting sure, but there is no way 1 or 2 extra gels could do that. Certainly not for me anyways. I always feel Way better when I eat too much vs. too little.Originally posted by ChillinYes it is. I tend to under fuel and fade because of it. Eating too little can hurt me, eating too much can't (within reason of course), so it's Far better to consume too much. This is actually incorrect; too much is likely much worse (bloating, cramping, vomitting) than too little (slight fading of pace). For most athletes, at oly distance effort, the max they can absorb would be about 150Cal/hour and this would be where I would start for planning. Also, eating as soon as you get on the bike and right before you get off to run are bad ideas and you would be better to do all fueling between 10-30km. On the run, a sip of sports drink at each aid station should be all you need. Good luck,Shane |
2013-08-10 3:10 PM in reply to: Chillin |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Olympic Nutrition Originally posted by Chillin Too much Could cause bloating, camping and vomiting sure, but there is no way 1 or 2 extra gels could do that. Certainly not for me anyways. I always feel Way better when I eat too much vs. too little. Its not 1 or 2 gels that cause the problem; it is four gels (the first when your stomach is likely doing nothing after the swim) and two full bottles at oly distance intensity. If you throw too much down your gut it pretty much shuts down and you need to slow down to get it going again. Its not like your stomach will abosrb the two gels, sports drink and water and doesn't touch the couple of extra gels, it just shuts down. Good luck, short course fueling is generally a case of less is more; if you eat everything you plan, I wish you the best of luck not having GI issues. Shane |
2013-08-10 3:25 PM in reply to: gsmacleod |
282 | Subject: RE: Olympic Nutrition Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by Chillin Too much Could cause bloating, camping and vomiting sure, but there is no way 1 or 2 extra gels could do that. Certainly not for me anyways. I always feel Way better when I eat too much vs. too little. Its not 1 or 2 gels that cause the problem; it is four gels (the first when your stomach is likely doing nothing after the swim) and two full bottles at oly distance intensity. If you throw too much down your gut it pretty much shuts down and you need to slow down to get it going again. Its not like your stomach will abosrb the two gels, sports drink and water and doesn't touch the couple of extra gels, it just shuts down. Good luck, short course fueling is generally a case of less is more; if you eat everything you plan, I wish you the best of luck not having GI issues. Shane I guess I am simply not the norm. For example in 2 full marathons (longer than an Olympic tri, but close) one I just had water and some chews and I felt horrible during and afterwards, in another I had 2 full bags of chews, 5 gels, 28 cups of water and 12 cups of Gatorade and I felt great the whole way though and afterwards. I actually Gained 3-4 lbs during the race and I felt my fueling was perfect. Also I wasn't actually planning on finishing both of those water bottles on the bike. I'll probably have about 3/4 of each. |
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2013-08-10 3:31 PM in reply to: TriMyBest |
282 | Subject: RE: Olympic Nutrition Originally posted by TriMyBest Originally posted by Chillin One or two extra gels can do that. More usually isn't better, especially in short course racing. BTW, IME, fading in short course is a fitness/ pacing issue much more frequently than it's a fueling issue. Originally posted by gsmacleod Too much Could cause bloating, camping and vomiting sure, but there is no way 1 or 2 extra gels could do that. Certainly not for me anyways. I always feel Way better when I eat too much vs. too little.Originally posted by ChillinYes it is. I tend to under fuel and fade because of it. Eating too little can hurt me, eating too much can't (within reason of course), so it's Far better to consume too much. This is actually incorrect; too much is likely much worse (bloating, cramping, vomitting) than too little (slight fading of pace). For most athletes, at oly distance effort, the max they can absorb would be about 150Cal/hour and this would be where I would start for planning. Also, eating as soon as you get on the bike and right before you get off to run are bad ideas and you would be better to do all fueling between 10-30km. On the run, a sip of sports drink at each aid station should be all you need. Good luck,ShaneI do the same course many times during training and I am able to do it faster when I fuel more so it definitely has nothing to do with fitness or pacing for me. Maybe it's just me but I have never had any intestinal issues no matter what I eat before or during. |
2013-08-10 3:35 PM in reply to: Chillin |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Olympic Nutrition Originally posted by Chillin A marathon is a lower intensity than an oly. The higher the intensity, the less your digestive system can process. Good luck.Originally posted by gsmacleod I guess I am simply not the norm. For example in 2 full marathons (longer than an Olympic tri, but close) one I just had water and some chews and I felt horrible during and afterwards, in another I had 2 full bags of chews, 5 gels, 28 cups of water and 12 cups of Gatorade and I felt great the whole way though and afterwards. I actually Gained 3-4 lbs during the race and I felt my fueling was perfect.Also I wasn't actually planning on finishing both of those water bottles on the bike. I'll probably have about 3/4 of each.Originally posted by ChillinToo much Could cause bloating, camping and vomiting sure, but there is no way 1 or 2 extra gels could do that. Certainly not for me anyways. I always feel Way better when I eat too much vs. too little. Its not 1 or 2 gels that cause the problem; it is four gels (the first when your stomach is likely doing nothing after the swim) and two full bottles at oly distance intensity. If you throw too much down your gut it pretty much shuts down and you need to slow down to get it going again. Its not like your stomach will abosrb the two gels, sports drink and water and doesn't touch the couple of extra gels, it just shuts down. Good luck, short course fueling is generally a case of less is more; if you eat everything you plan, I wish you the best of luck not having GI issues. Shane |
2013-08-10 3:38 PM in reply to: TriMyBest |
282 | Subject: RE: Olympic Nutrition Originally posted by TriMyBest Originally posted by Chillin A marathon is a lower intensity than an oly. The higher the intensity, the less your digestive system can process. Good luck. Originally posted by gsmacleod I guess I am simply not the norm. For example in 2 full marathons (longer than an Olympic tri, but close) one I just had water and some chews and I felt horrible during and afterwards, in another I had 2 full bags of chews, 5 gels, 28 cups of water and 12 cups of Gatorade and I felt great the whole way though and afterwards. I actually Gained 3-4 lbs during the race and I felt my fueling was perfect.Also I wasn't actually planning on finishing both of those water bottles on the bike. I'll probably have about 3/4 of each.Originally posted by ChillinToo much Could cause bloating, camping and vomiting sure, but there is no way 1 or 2 extra gels could do that. Certainly not for me anyways. I always feel Way better when I eat too much vs. too little. Its not 1 or 2 gels that cause the problem; it is four gels (the first when your stomach is likely doing nothing after the swim) and two full bottles at oly distance intensity. If you throw too much down your gut it pretty much shuts down and you need to slow down to get it going again. Its not like your stomach will abosrb the two gels, sports drink and water and doesn't touch the couple of extra gels, it just shuts down. Good luck, short course fueling is generally a case of less is more; if you eat everything you plan, I wish you the best of luck not having GI issues. ShaneTrue but biking is way lower intensity than running, especially on the digestive system... Thanks! I'll reply back tomorrow night letting you guys know how it went. |
2013-08-10 3:42 PM in reply to: Chillin |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Olympic Nutrition Originally posted by Chillin I guess I am simply not the norm. Perhaps; or perhaps... For example in 2 full marathons (longer than an Olympic tri, but close) one I just had water and some chews and I felt horrible during and afterwards, in another I had 2 full bags of chews, 5 gels, 28 cups of water and 12 cups of Gatorade and I felt great the whole way though and afterwards. Which one was first - the less fuel or the more fuel? What was your time for each? And your training volume? I actually Gained 3-4 lbs during the race and I felt my fueling was perfect. This is pretty much never a good thing, regardless of how you felt. Also I wasn't actually planning on finishing both of those water bottles on the bike. I'll probably have about 3/4 of each. As I said, good luck with your fueling plan. I doubt that it will go as well as you expect but perhaps you'll be able to achieve your goal despite over fueling. Shane |
2013-08-10 3:42 PM in reply to: Chillin |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Olympic Nutrition Originally posted by Chillin I'm sure everything will go fine.Originally posted by TriMyBest True but biking is way lower intensity than running, especially on the digestive system...Thanks! I'll reply back tomorrow night letting you guys know how it went.Originally posted by Chillin A marathon is a lower intensity than an oly. The higher the intensity, the less your digestive system can process. Good luck.Originally posted by gsmacleod I guess I am simply not the norm. For example in 2 full marathons (longer than an Olympic tri, but close) one I just had water and some chews and I felt horrible during and afterwards, in another I had 2 full bags of chews, 5 gels, 28 cups of water and 12 cups of Gatorade and I felt great the whole way though and afterwards. I actually Gained 3-4 lbs during the race and I felt my fueling was perfect.Also I wasn't actually planning on finishing both of those water bottles on the bike. I'll probably have about 3/4 of each.Originally posted by ChillinToo much Could cause bloating, camping and vomiting sure, but there is no way 1 or 2 extra gels could do that. Certainly not for me anyways. I always feel Way better when I eat too much vs. too little. Its not 1 or 2 gels that cause the problem; it is four gels (the first when your stomach is likely doing nothing after the swim) and two full bottles at oly distance intensity. If you throw too much down your gut it pretty much shuts down and you need to slow down to get it going again. Its not like your stomach will abosrb the two gels, sports drink and water and doesn't touch the couple of extra gels, it just shuts down. Good luck, short course fueling is generally a case of less is more; if you eat everything you plan, I wish you the best of luck not having GI issues. Shane |
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2013-08-10 3:51 PM in reply to: gsmacleod |
282 | Subject: RE: Olympic Nutrition Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by Chillin I guess I am simply not the norm. Perhaps; or perhaps... For example in 2 full marathons (longer than an Olympic tri, but close) one I just had water and some chews and I felt horrible during and afterwards, in another I had 2 full bags of chews, 5 gels, 28 cups of water and 12 cups of Gatorade and I felt great the whole way though and afterwards. Which one was first - the less fuel or the more fuel? What was your time for each? And your training volume? I actually Gained 3-4 lbs during the race and I felt my fueling was perfect. This is pretty much never a good thing, regardless of how you felt. Also I wasn't actually planning on finishing both of those water bottles on the bike. I'll probably have about 3/4 of each. As I said, good luck with your fueling plan. I doubt that it will go as well as you expect but perhaps you'll be able to achieve your goal despite over fueling. Shane Yes obviously gaining weight during a race is not a good thing, my point was simply that my digestive system did not shut down like you said it could even though I consumed Way more than I will tomorrow. BTW you are talking like I am planning on hugely overfueling tomorrow yet based on your numbers of 150/hr I should have ~450cals and I am going to have 512. That is a pretty minimal difference. |
2013-08-10 4:20 PM in reply to: Chillin |
1660 | Subject: RE: Olympic Nutrition It's far, far easier to screw up your Oly race by overeating and overdrinking than by underdoing it. Most folks can do the whole Oly with nothing but water and still race to their max. You're not going to burn all your glycogen in an Oly. I think in my last several Olys I drank 1/3rd of a bottle on the bike and that was it, and I wasn't trying intentionally to not eat/drink. I've just learned in trainng that when going at Oly race pace intensity, too much fluid in the stomach = trouble! |
2013-08-10 4:34 PM in reply to: Chillin |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Olympic Nutrition Originally posted by Chillin Yes obviously gaining weight during a race is not a good thing, my point was simply that my digestive system did not shut down like you said it could even though I consumed Way more than I will tomorrow. BTW you are talking like I am planning on hugely overfueling tomorrow yet based on your numbers of 150/hr I should have ~450cals and I am going to have 512. That is a pretty minimal difference. Sorry, I wasn't clear enough; on the bike, at oly distance intensities, you are looking at about 150Cal/hr at best and the run will probably be somewhere between 50-70% of that so what you're looking at (roughly): 1:30 bike - 225Cal 1:00 run - 100Cal So your total should be a max of about 325Cal and your looking at 400Cal just in gels on the bike plus everything else. Shane |
2013-08-10 5:30 PM in reply to: gsmacleod |
282 | Subject: RE: Olympic Nutrition Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by Chillin Yes obviously gaining weight during a race is not a good thing, my point was simply that my digestive system did not shut down like you said it could even though I consumed Way more than I will tomorrow. BTW you are talking like I am planning on hugely overfueling tomorrow yet based on your numbers of 150/hr I should have ~450cals and I am going to have 512. That is a pretty minimal difference. Sorry, I wasn't clear enough; on the bike, at oly distance intensities, you are looking at about 150Cal/hr at best and the run will probably be somewhere between 50-70% of that so what you're looking at (roughly): 1:30 bike - 225Cal 1:00 run - 100Cal So your total should be a max of about 325Cal and your looking at 400Cal just in gels on the bike plus everything else. Shane Gotcha. But just to be clear since you said "plus everything else", everything else is just 3 chews at 23 cals each, not 3 packages or anything. Also the package for the gels do say to have one every 30 minutes which is almost exactly what I am doing. That being said I do understand what you are saying about intensity and when on my ride I take them to be factors, but I have taken them at 21 minute intervals in training and that seemed to work well for me... You certainly may be right but I'm not about to change my plan the day before the race. I'll let you know tomorrow how it goes... |
2013-08-10 5:48 PM in reply to: Chillin |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Olympic Nutrition Originally posted by Chillin Gotcha. But just to be clear since you said "plus everything else", everything else is just 3 chews at 23 cals each, not 3 packages or anything. Also the package for the gels do say to have one every 30 minutes which is almost exactly what I am doing. That being said I do understand what you are saying about intensity and when on my ride I take them to be factors, but I have taken them at 21 minute intervals in training and that seemed to work well for me... The problem with this is that it is rare for an athlete to train at oly distance intensity for 40km to test nutrition; they almost always ride easier. So, your 440Cal (forgot the Powergels are 110Cal) on the bike may cause trouble although they were fine in training. If you are going to carry 4, here's what i would suggest: 10km 1st gel 25km 2nd gel 30km 3rd gel 39km last gel if you are feeling cranky or light headed - otherwise, save it for you next training ride The other concern i would have is combining that with additional electolytes - this, inaddition to the calorie bomb you are looking at can slow absorbtion from the gut and make bloating even more likely. You certainly may be right but I'm not about to change my plan the day before the race. I'll let you know tomorrow how it goes... Try the simple change above - at least use how you are feeling rather than just pounding four gels on the bike. Shane |
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2013-08-10 6:54 PM in reply to: devilfan02 |
Veteran 294 Mission Viejo, | Subject: RE: Olympic Nutrition Listen to Shane and Don. They are generally spot on and I agree with them here. Not much in the way of fuel for me, not in an Oly. Solid breakfast, honey stinger waffle 1/2 hour to start, 1 bottle on the bike and maybe 2 gels total to the finish. Then pizza and beer after! |
2013-08-10 7:22 PM in reply to: Coach Gil |
Subject: RE: Olympic Nutrition Good advice in this thread. Thanks. Racing an Oly tomorrow, the first one in 2 years. I have not been thinking about nutrition much this summer, just training for fun and fitness. I was also little worried about how much to take in. |
2013-08-10 8:36 PM in reply to: gsmacleod |
282 | Subject: RE: Olympic Nutrition Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by Chillin Gotcha. But just to be clear since you said "plus everything else", everything else is just 3 chews at 23 cals each, not 3 packages or anything. Also the package for the gels do say to have one every 30 minutes which is almost exactly what I am doing. That being said I do understand what you are saying about intensity and when on my ride I take them to be factors, but I have taken them at 21 minute intervals in training and that seemed to work well for me... The problem with this is that it is rare for an athlete to train at oly distance intensity for 40km to test nutrition; they almost always ride easier. So, your 440Cal (forgot the Powergels are 110Cal) on the bike may cause trouble although they were fine in training. If you are going to carry 4, here's what i would suggest: 10km 1st gel 25km 2nd gel 30km 3rd gel 39km last gel if you are feeling cranky or light headed - otherwise, save it for you next training ride The other concern i would have is combining that with additional electolytes - this, inaddition to the calorie bomb you are looking at can slow absorbtion from the gut and make bloating even more likely. You certainly may be right but I'm not about to change my plan the day before the race. I'll let you know tomorrow how it goes... Try the simple change above - at least use how you are feeling rather than just pounding four gels on the bike. Shane At least half of my training runs/rides are at race intensity. I know this is the wrong way to train but I just enjoy pushing myself so much more than just taking it easy (I've never once had a training workout where I could actually hold a conversation like you are supposed to be able). So yes 21 mins per is at race intensity. So instead of spreading them out (28 mins apart) you recommend having them together (only 10 minutes apart) that seems strange to me. Why would I not evenly space them? Based on Coach Gil's comment I'm gonna assume your name is Shane Macleod? Small world, that's my brothers name. |
2013-08-11 5:40 AM in reply to: Chillin |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Olympic Nutrition Originally posted by Chillin At least half of my training runs/rides are at race intensity. I know this is the wrong way to train but I just enjoy pushing myself so much more than just taking it easy (I've never once had a training workout where I could actually hold a conversation like you are supposed to be able). So yes 21 mins per is at race intensity. If you are okay with having PBs in training and underperforming at races, this is the way to go. Otherwise, better to have a plan that includes both hard and easy sessions. So instead of spreading them out (28 mins apart) you recommend having them together (only 10 minutes apart) that seems strange to me. Why would I not evenly space them? That should have been 10, 20 and 30km; so at race speeds 15-20 minutes apart. More time is better but when you are trying to put 4 gels in your stomach and you want to settle in on the bike after getting out of the water and not finish with a full stomach for the run, the time between feedings gets compressed. Shane |
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