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2013-10-19 2:37 PM

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Subject: Upcoming Outside the Lines special on swim deaths in triathlon

ESPN is running a special on swim deaths in triathlons, though it doesn't really cover new info and doesn't highlight that there were only 7 deaths in triathlons this year (vs 13 last year). They have a nice write up, but don't really offer any conclusions that's not out there.

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/9838319/trouble-surface



2013-10-19 4:04 PM
in reply to: rdailey1


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Subject: RE: Upcoming Outside the Lines special on swim deaths in triathlon
Didn't read the full article.

There are some cases of gross negligence in some of those stories, like the life guards not having OW rescue experience.
Not all swim deaths are a clear cut "you know what you signed up for" argument.

Not saying that you should go into the water thinking that you can just hold on to the kayak, sup, etc... if you get into trouble.

Can't wait to watch that episode.
2013-10-19 4:09 PM
in reply to: rdailey1

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Subject: RE: Upcoming Outside the Lines special on swim deaths in triathlon

Originally posted by rdailey1

ESPN is running a special on swim deaths in triathlons, though it doesn't really cover new info and doesn't highlight that there were only 7 deaths in triathlons this year (vs 13 last year). They have a nice write up, but don't really offer any conclusions that's not out there.

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/9838319/trouble-surface

Agreed.  Points out specific incidents but no conclusions of what can be done to prevent it better.  Towards the end a couple of pointers about minimum number of guards per participant in particular courses....but they didn't address the need for more warm up time or come to a conclusion on wet suit wear.

2013-10-19 6:33 PM
in reply to: rdailey1

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Subject: RE: Upcoming Outside the Lines special on swim deaths in triathlon
What time is it on?
2013-10-19 7:34 PM
in reply to: rdailey1

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Subject: RE: Upcoming Outside the Lines special on swim deaths in triathlon
How many of those deaths occurred in United States and how many elsewhere.
2013-10-19 8:23 PM
in reply to: Goggles Pizzano

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Subject: RE: Upcoming Outside the Lines special on swim deaths in triathlon
Originally posted by Goggles Pizzano

What time is it on?

8 a.m. Sunday is what the article says. Not clear if that's EDT or what. Check you local listings, as they say.


2013-10-19 8:29 PM
in reply to: rdailey1

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Subject: RE: Upcoming Outside the Lines special on swim deaths in triathlon

Talk about horrible irony. ESPN is reporting the death of a 59yo M at Pumpkinman this morning in Las Vegas. How horrible...

2013-10-19 9:10 PM
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Subject: RE: Upcoming Outside the Lines special on swim deaths in triathlon
That article really doesn't say much to be honest. In fact, I think it's actually more surprising that theres ONLY been 44 swim deaths in 6 years, and few of those were proven to be "swim" deaths vs "medical condition" deaths that happened in the water.

I don't see how this is even a real thing. I'm sure there's been 100's of 1000's of people who have done tri's in that time frame and to have such a low number of deaths for an admittedly risky event is surprising.

Edited by aliddle9876 2013-10-19 9:10 PM
2013-10-19 9:52 PM
in reply to: aliddle9876

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Subject: RE: Upcoming Outside the Lines special on swim deaths in triathlon

Originally posted by aliddle9876 That article really doesn't say much to be honest. In fact, I think it's actually more surprising that theres ONLY been 44 swim deaths in 6 years, and few of those were proven to be "swim" deaths vs "medical condition" deaths that happened in the water. I don't see how this is even a real thing. I'm sure there's been 100's of 1000's of people who have done tri's in that time frame and to have such a low number of deaths for an admittedly risky event is surprising.

actually millions of participants according to other studies. The rate of deaths in triathlon is less than twice the rate for marathoners (~1.5 vs 0.75 per 100,000 participants) Given the survivability of an MI in the water (practically zero if you don't tell someone you're having chest pain before your heart stops), I'm also surprised there aren't more deaths. In a marathon, SOMEONE is going to see you go down and probably respond immediately. In fact, an internal medicine resident that I trained with saw a guy go down in a race and immediately started CPR. EMTs on mountain bike arrived within 3 minutes with a defibrillator. The guy was shocked once with return of pulse, and woke up in the ER after transport. This happened last year in Minneapolis. This probably happens at one in 10 of the larger marathons across the country.

2013-10-19 10:13 PM
in reply to: rdailey1

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Subject: RE: Upcoming Outside the Lines special on swim deaths in triathlon
usat has a write up on this on their website. If I remember correctly there was no correlation with experience or distance of race. The deaths were disproportionately on the swim leg, and most were cardiac related. there is some supposition with regard to stress hormones too if I remember right. Last year at my first HIM a guy had an acute MI in the water and died two waves ahead of me. He was a biker, fairly fit and in his forties. I'm guessing he wasn't having chest pain when he got in the water.
2013-10-20 6:40 AM
in reply to: RZ0

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Subject: RE: Upcoming Outside the Lines special on swim deaths in triathlon
Originally posted by RZ0
Originally posted by Goggles PizzanoWhat time is it on?
8 a.m. Sunday is what the article says. Not clear if that's EDT or what. Check you local listings, as they say.
Thanks.


2013-10-21 7:06 PM
in reply to: rdailey1

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Subject: RE: Upcoming Outside the Lines special on swim deaths in triathlon

Originally posted by rdailey1

Talk about horrible irony. ESPN is reporting the death of a 59yo M at Pumpkinman this morning in Las Vegas. How horrible...

It was on our local news last night.  I recorded it and need to watch.  He was a school principle.  I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned on BT today.  Maybe the news hasn't gotten out yet.

Maybe it's just me or maybe just more attention has been put on it, but it DOES seem like there has been a higher than average number of swimming deaths this year in races.

2013-10-21 7:09 PM
in reply to: Kido

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Subject: RE: Upcoming Outside the Lines special on swim deaths in triathlon

Originally posted by Kido

Originally posted by rdailey1

Talk about horrible irony. ESPN is reporting the death of a 59yo M at Pumpkinman this morning in Las Vegas. How horrible...

It was on our local news last night.  I recorded it and need to watch.  He was a school principle.  I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned on BT today.  Maybe the news hasn't gotten out yet.

Maybe it's just me or maybe just more attention has been put on it, but it DOES seem like there has been a higher than average number of swimming deaths this year in races.

I don't know the numbers, but in a thread over the last day or so Dan Empfield posted over there that as of now, there are fewer swim deaths this year than in 2012.

2013-10-21 8:40 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Subject: RE: Upcoming Outside the Lines special on swim deaths in triathlon

Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by Kido

Originally posted by rdailey1

Talk about horrible irony. ESPN is reporting the death of a 59yo M at Pumpkinman this morning in Las Vegas. How horrible...

It was on our local news last night.  I recorded it and need to watch.  He was a school principle.  I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned on BT today.  Maybe the news hasn't gotten out yet.

Maybe it's just me or maybe just more attention has been put on it, but it DOES seem like there has been a higher than average number of swimming deaths this year in races.

I don't know the numbers, but in a thread over the last day or so Dan Empfield posted over there that as of now, there are fewer swim deaths this year than in 2012.

I think it was 13 all of last year, 8 so far this year, including the one this weekend

2013-10-22 6:30 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Subject: RE: Upcoming Outside the Lines special on swim deaths in triathlon

Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by Kido

Originally posted by rdailey1

Talk about horrible irony. ESPN is reporting the death of a 59yo M at Pumpkinman this morning in Las Vegas. How horrible...

It was on our local news last night.  I recorded it and need to watch.  He was a school principle.  I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned on BT today.  Maybe the news hasn't gotten out yet.

Maybe it's just me or maybe just more attention has been put on it, but it DOES seem like there has been a higher than average number of swimming deaths this year in races.

I don't know the numbers, but in a thread over the last day or so Dan Empfield posted over there that as of now, there are fewer swim deaths this year than in 2012.

I'm not sure if that's measured by calendar year or season.

Maybe it should clarify that in the last 12-18 months, there seems to be a lot more instances/stories of swimmer deaths than I remember in the last 5 years or longer I have been doing this.

2013-10-22 6:47 PM
in reply to: Kido

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Subject: RE: Upcoming Outside the Lines special on swim deaths in triathlon

Originally posted by Kido

Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by Kido

Originally posted by rdailey1

Talk about horrible irony. ESPN is reporting the death of a 59yo M at Pumpkinman this morning in Las Vegas. How horrible...

It was on our local news last night.  I recorded it and need to watch.  He was a school principle.  I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned on BT today.  Maybe the news hasn't gotten out yet.

Maybe it's just me or maybe just more attention has been put on it, but it DOES seem like there has been a higher than average number of swimming deaths this year in races.

I don't know the numbers, but in a thread over the last day or so Dan Empfield posted over there that as of now, there are fewer swim deaths this year than in 2012.

I'm not sure if that's measured by calendar year or season.

Maybe it should clarify that in the last 12-18 months, there seems to be a lot more instances/stories of swimmer deaths than I remember in the last 5 years or longer I have been doing this.

I don't know, but I would assume the stats go by year.  And I watched the show last night, they said of the 13 deaths 12 were in the water, so not sure it's 13-8 either. 

I've raced one race with the new WTC swimsafe plan.   I am not one of those "at risk" (as far as I know) but I thought the numbered buoys were fantastic from a pacing point of view.



2013-10-22 9:09 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Subject: RE: Upcoming Outside the Lines special on swim deaths in triathlon
As you read the article you see lines like "After an autopsy, the death was ruled a drowning, with an enlarged heart and the fibrillation history as possible factors" and on another incident "But precisely what stopped his heart during the race remains a mystery". How exactly does this translate to an actionable item for race promoters?

Everyone agrees that any death, even one, is too many. Everyone agrees that if conditions are severe enough, safety needs to trump machismo and a race or part of one needs to be scraped. But how do you make someone warm up properly? Many people are not morning people and/or don't want to spend the energy on a warm up. Bad decision but impossible to enforce.

Our local tris are in water starts so at least the initial shock of hitting the water is eliminated. Should this be required?

I understand wanting to blame someone but sometimes stuff happens. My bottom line is you can regulate all you want but you will never eliminate deaths in tris any more than you will in marathons any more than you will for people riding a bus to work. What's the option? Tell people to never exercise?

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