General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Men win 2nd-5th place at Nike Women's Half Marathon SF Rss Feed  
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2013-10-25 8:38 PM
in reply to: KeriKadi

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Subject: RE: Men win 2nd-5th place at Nike Women's Half Marathon SF
Thank you for clarifying the rules I didn't do the race so hadn't seen that the race awards had been split out male and female finishers. So yes not allowing men into the race would be technically discriminatory. And women would get way more upset about a men's only race than men get about a woman's only race. My main concern given CA's whacked recent laws was that the men would win the awards that the 2nd and 3rd place women should have won. With awards for men and women separately that evens the playing field and is fine, kind of. In CA for school aged students (k-12) guys can race against girls and take the medals away from them. I find that to be wrong. I thought this was the same and stand corrected sorry.


2013-10-25 8:56 PM
in reply to: Baowolf

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Subject: RE: Men win 2nd-5th place at Nike Women's Half Marathon SF

Originally posted by Baowolf Thank you for clarifying the rules I didn't do the race so hadn't seen that the race awards had been split out male and female finishers. So yes not allowing men into the race would be technically discriminatory. And women would get way more upset about a men's only race than men get about a woman's only race. My main concern given CA's whacked recent laws was that the men would win the awards that the 2nd and 3rd place women should have won. With awards for men and women separately that evens the playing field and is fine, kind of. In CA for school aged students (k-12) guys can race against girls and take the medals away from them. I find that to be wrong. I thought this was the same and stand corrected sorry.

Oh man. LOL

2013-10-26 5:27 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Men win 2nd-5th place at Nike Women's Half Marathon SF

Originally posted by Baowolf Thank you for clarifying the rules I didn't do the race so hadn't seen that the race awards had been split out male and female finishers. So yes not allowing men into the race would be technically discriminatory. And women would get way more upset about a men's only race than men get about a woman's only race. My main concern given CA's whacked recent laws was that the men would win the awards that the 2nd and 3rd place women should have won. With awards for men and women separately that evens the playing field and is fine, kind of. In CA for school aged students (k-12) guys can race against girls and take the medals away from them. I find that to be wrong. I thought this was the same and stand corrected sorry.

 

Steve, I am somewhat surprised at your OP here. I've always looked at you in a very positive light on the 7+ years I've been on BT. You run great mentor groups and walk the walk so to speak, by actually doing triathlons.... quite well in fact!

The OP you started here did provide some entertainment (mainly for LB) value, but *I* think I would argue that it was a VERY PREDICTABLE pattern that it followed. The usual affirmative action/preferences arguments ensued with the discussion.

Additionally, your last part of your OP:

If you were a guy would you run this race and if you are a women what do you think about guys crashing the party?

As it turns out not only are guys allowed to run, but they even have their own awards lol.

This is NOT an attack on you, but rather I am trying to say from one long time forum member here to one I respect very much.... I am surprised that you lobbed this one into Tri talk.

I think it is one of many concerns I have these days about the decline of BT in general, and to be honest I personally probably need to take more blame than you in the decline of the community here.

Surprised....



Edited by Fred D 2013-10-26 5:28 AM
2013-10-26 4:08 PM
in reply to: Fred D

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Subject: RE: Men win 2nd-5th place at Nike Women's Half Marathon SF

Originally posted by Fred D

Originally posted by Baowolf Thank you for clarifying the rules I didn't do the race so hadn't seen that the race awards had been split out male and female finishers. So yes not allowing men into the race would be technically discriminatory. And women would get way more upset about a men's only race than men get about a woman's only race. My main concern given CA's whacked recent laws was that the men would win the awards that the 2nd and 3rd place women should have won. With awards for men and women separately that evens the playing field and is fine, kind of. In CA for school aged students (k-12) guys can race against girls and take the medals away from them. I find that to be wrong. I thought this was the same and stand corrected sorry.

 

Steve, I am somewhat surprised at your OP here. I've always looked at you in a very positive light on the 7+ years I've been on BT. You run great mentor groups and walk the walk so to speak, by actually doing triathlons.... quite well in fact!

The OP you started here did provide some entertainment (mainly for LB) value, but *I* think I would argue that it was a VERY PREDICTABLE pattern that it followed. The usual affirmative action/preferences arguments ensued with the discussion.

Additionally, your last part of your OP:

If you were a guy would you run this race and if you are a women what do you think about guys crashing the party?

As it turns out not only are guys allowed to run, but they even have their own awards lol.

This is NOT an attack on you, but rather I am trying to say from one long time forum member here to one I respect very much.... I am surprised that you lobbed this one into Tri talk.

I think it is one of many concerns I have these days about the decline of BT in general, and to be honest I personally probably need to take more blame than you in the decline of the community here.

Surprised....

Bleh!!

I've only been here 2 years, but I've got quite a bit more experience on these types of boards than 7 years......I ran a hunting/retriever board for 4 years on top of membership in a few others over 15 years.  Posts usually take one of 3 themes:

1. They are mean and nasty

2. They are entertaining and fun with nobody getting too wound up

3. They are on topic and very informative.

This thread was a #2.......who cares?  This board has very few #1"s.  The #3's on this board are some of the best on the interwebs and comprise the overwhelming majority. 

It takes all kinds of personalities to make these boards fun.....and this one runs the page from top to bottom on that account.  I'm not disappointed in the OP at all.....thanks for the laughs!!

2013-10-26 4:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Men win 2nd-5th place at Nike Women's Half Marathon SF
Sorry to cause drama.

I knew a lot of women who were in the race. I saw the results page and it looked like guys were competing directly against women for the podium slots. I thought that was wrong, which is why I put the post up. I feel that given the general physiological diferences between men and women that there should not be a direct competition. I was wrong in that even though the finishers were listed in order that there were separate awards for men than for women. So the whole premise that there was an injustice was incorrect on my part. I listened to what the participants said without actually looking at the rule page. So sorry for that. I am personally fine with an all women or all men race. I do not like when there are injustices and was lazy about doing my research and stand corrected. Tips hat, sorry.

I guess the take away is don't post when you are emotional about a situation without knowing all the facts. Thanks to the person who found the regs for me. I was a bit protective of the women runners from my work who felt angry about the situation. They didn't know there were separate awards and I didn't research it to see if their feelings were based on the facts of the case.

I have personally be in environments where being a guy = being hated and attacked by angry women for being a guy (5 years of graduate school) and that may have come out in what I said (last part of last post), those were some pretty long, hard isolated years.

So 5 pages later, mostly what I wanted to say was that I felt men and women should have separate awards. They actully did get separate awards, so um well my bad. I was overprotective of the women I was mentoring. I will try do better research in the future and avoid politics. Thanks for the kind words and calling my on the post.

Edited by Baowolf 2013-10-26 4:46 PM
2013-10-27 12:22 PM
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Subject: RE: Men win 2nd-5th place at Nike Women's Half Marathon SF
Originally posted by Baowolf

What do you think? SF has a Women's only Half Marathon and Marathon and because we are in CA men by law are allowed to enter a women's only race and take almost all of the medals (2nd-5th place were men in the women's only race). The race provides a women's Tiffany necklace and has male firefighters in tuxes handing out the necklaces to the women. Some of the men were yelling out that they were angry that there were not women firefighters there to give them their necklaces. Am I out of bounds to think that this is just plain whacked? If you are a guy would you run this race and if you are a woman what do you think about guys crashing the party?


these guys really need to rethink their priorities

Edited by sheesleeva 2013-10-27 12:23 PM


2013-10-27 1:26 PM
in reply to: lisac957

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Subject: RE: Men win 2nd-5th place at Nike Women's Half Marathon SF
Originally posted by lisac957

Originally posted by TobiasAK89 I wonder how the athletic community would have reacted, if Nike had arranged a 'men only'-event, or a "white protestant only"-event.

People clearly must not have heard of the multitude of other organizations that put on women's races - where is the outrage for these?

IronGirl
Girls on the Run
Mermaid Series
Diva Dash
A billion others


I just found this thread, so I am late, but i didn't see a response that covered this.

I can't speak for the other organizations, but as for Girls on the Run, I am a coach in my third season. Our season-ending 5k races are public events that we encourage everyone to register for, especially as they serve as fundraisers for our local councils. I have been thrilled to see some our local top studs and studettes come out to support the program and put on a solid race at the front. Our girls are 3rd-5th graders, so they are not overall podium contenders anyway. My son ran his first 5k at a GOTR, at age 6. (race day sign up on a whim. He is sort of the team mascot.) His second GOTR in the spring, he got an AG placing award. The girls were thrilled to cheer for him.

The program itself is designed for girls in that age group. As a Dad of one of the girls, I am glad to have the program and give them space to talk about how girls typically process social issues differently than the boys in their class. When the topic of the day is more gender related, I defer to my co-coaches who are women.

I had other thoughts for this thread, but I don't want to conflate it all, as it seems played out. I just wanted to clarify what GOTR does with their races.

2013-10-27 4:47 PM
in reply to: 0


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Subject: RE: Men win 2nd-5th place at Nike Women's Half Marathon SF
Originally posted by running2far

Races that are 99.99% women? Please PM reg links thanks!


Yes. And they laughed at me when I, as a man, went to Texas Woman's University to get my MBA.

Edited by SeeVee 2013-10-27 5:05 PM
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