General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Help me start a swimming program. Please. Rss Feed  
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2013-10-29 8:20 AM

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Subject: Help me start a swimming program. Please.
So I have been running a lot for the past couple years and it turns out all that pounding wasn't the best for me. I ended up with "an angry nerve" in my back, that runs into my right leg that has caused a shocking amount of muscle atrophy. Doc has me on anti inflammatory drugs to chill the nerve out. In the mean time (which I tend to think may be a long time) she says I can swim, so I figure sure what not

Now I don't want to be stupid about swimming like I was about running. I can see myself getting in there and ruining my shoulder or pulling other swimming associated muscles.

I haven't been in the pool for 4 years. Prior to that I learned to swim by reading the TI book and managed to feel pretty comfortable in the water and survived the IM. All of my training was just slow and steady front crawl. Generally once a week, I worked my way up to 2 hours in the pool.

What are some good resources for swim programs. Should I start 5 days a week 20 minutes a day, 3 days a week for 30 min. Should I stick to the crawl or add some other stuff. Do I start intervals right away. I see the doctor next week and my leg is feeling a lot better so I am hoping she gives me some strengthening exercises so I will be hitting the gym too.

I just always loved the water, but between running and biking it got lost in the shuffle. All help and comments appreciated.



2013-10-29 8:37 AM
in reply to: BigDH

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Master
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Midcoast Maine
Subject: RE: Help me start a swimming program. Please.
Yanti just mentioned the Swim Secrets by Sheila T...it has a 16 week program that might be interesting to follow.

I have been doing a modified plan that has been helpful to me:

1. Get in the water as much as you can, as many days a week as you can
2. Start slowly. First week - 1000y a session at the most, focusing on form. The set I use for warm up and cool down is 500y, so I just did two sets:

150y crawl
:20 rest
100y crawl
:15 rest
50y crawl
:15 rest
50y kick (flutter down the pool, butterfly back) - if kicking without flippers/zoomers is too difficult, use the flippers
50y catch up drill
50y one arm (left arm down, right arm back) - the purpose of this one is to get you balanced in the water - you don't want to scull too much with the lead arm)
50y kick on back (flutter down, butterfly back)

3. Once I was comfortable that I could easily finish the 1000y, I started adding in sets between the warm-up set and the cool down set:
Set One: 400y
4 (100y on 10 seconds rest to the closest 15 (so if you finished on :02, you would rest to :12, and then start swimming on :15) )
Set Two: 300y
6 (50y fast on :20, :40, :60) - so for me [a 2:00/100y swimmer], I would get about :20 rest between each 50y
Set Three:
500y straight out with 75 easy, 25 hard

4. Some days, I get a warm up, Set One, and a cool down in. Other days (depending on my work schedule), I get a warm up, Set One - Three and a cool down in.

5. Once that becomes doable - throw in another set (sandwiched by the warm-up/cool down set):
1500y
3 (100y hard on 2:20)
3 (100y as easy as you can still holding perfect form on 2:40)
3 (100y hard on 2:20)
3 (100y as easy as you can still holding perfect form on 2:40)
3 (100y hard on 2:20)

6. I also try to throw in one long steady swim day (so this week, I'll do the warm up set, 1500y straight and the cool down set). I spend a lot of time while swimming thinking about form (wide arms, no cross over, gliding on the top of the stroke, pulling over a barrel (elbows high), and pushing the stroke all the way down my leg)

For me - it's been all about getting time in the water. Making myself swim on a regular basis. I will have been doing this "program" for two months by the end of this week and then I'll give Sheila's program a try.

Good luck! (Sorry about the injury - it is so frustrating!)
2013-10-29 8:41 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Help me start a swimming program. Please.

swimsmooth.com is a good resource for technique and such.  I believe there's some workouts on there also but don't hold me to that one.  There's also a guy who posts on here, Tim from magnolia masters.  His website has work outs posted. 

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=502389&mid=4870383#M4870383

 

 

 



Edited by Goggles Pizzano 2013-10-29 8:46 AM
2013-10-29 8:46 AM
in reply to: BigDH

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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: Help me start a swimming program. Please.

Two outstanding resources:

1) Get Sheila Taormina's Swim Speed Secrets (book) and Swim Speed Workouts. All the work of thinking, planning, etc. has been done for you and it's an absolutely amazing 16-week detailed progression, very doable.

2) Get the Swim Smooth book and the appropriate set of workouts for where you're at.

Honestly, I think it's much better (unless someone IS actually a swim coach, which come to think of it I am ... duh ... and even then!) to follow an extremely well-designed, well-researched, well-tested swim training program than to try and come up with and muddle through one by yourself.

Got any Masters groups in Calgary meeting at times you could make?

2013-10-29 8:47 AM
in reply to: Goggles Pizzano

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Subject: RE: Help me start a swimming program. Please.

Originally posted by Goggles Pizzano

swimsmooth.com is a good resource for technique and such.  I believe there's some workouts on there also but don't hold me to that one.  There's also a guy who posts on here, Tim from magnolia masters.  His website has work outs posted

 

I've been following the workouts on Magnolia Masters lately and really them. Probably a little long if you are just getting back into it but definitely worth checking out.

2013-10-29 9:01 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Help me start a swimming program. Please.

 Now I don't want to be stupid about swimming like I was about running. I can see myself getting in there and ruining my shoulder or pulling other swimming associated muscles. 

 

Thats me :P

I was doing the wrong strength training + alot of swimming = messed up shoulder.

 

I don't think there really is any difference in training methodology for SBR as an older althlete in that one needs to slowly build up a good foundation of muscles/ligaments In order to stay injury free. 

You will have the energy and teh desire to do alot, but I would caution you to take it easy for while.

 

 



Edited by LPJmom 2013-10-29 9:01 AM


2013-10-29 9:03 AM
in reply to: trigal38

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Master
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Midcoast Maine
Subject: RE: Help me start a swimming program. Please.
Originally posted by trigal38

Originally posted by Goggles Pizzano

swimsmooth.com is a good resource for technique and such.  I believe there's some workouts on there also but don't hold me to that one.  There's also a guy who posts on here, Tim from magnolia masters.  His website has work outs posted

 

I've been following the workouts on Magnolia Masters lately and really them. Probably a little long if you are just getting back into it but definitely worth checking out.




Can anyone provide the link to the Magnolia Masters?
2013-10-29 9:07 AM
in reply to: jswayland

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Subject: RE: Help me start a swimming program. Please.

For swimming I do not think you need to be as careful as running; there isn't so much "pounding." I would however try to make sure you are swimming with propoer form. Improper swim form is the first step on the road to injury. For starters, I would say swim only until your form starts to suffer. If you are swimming with poor form you are not doing yourself any good. A masters class might be a good place to go relatively soon. You will have a coach on deck to help you out and the other swimmers provide good motivation.

 

Good luck!

2013-10-29 9:08 AM
in reply to: jswayland

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Subject: RE: Help me start a swimming program. Please.

Originally posted by jswayland
Originally posted by trigal38

Originally posted by Goggles Pizzano

swimsmooth.com is a good resource for technique and such.  I believe there's some workouts on there also but don't hold me to that one.  There's also a guy who posts on here, Tim from magnolia masters.  His website has work outs posted

 

I've been following the workouts on Magnolia Masters lately and really them. Probably a little long if you are just getting back into it but definitely worth checking out.

Can anyone provide the link to the Magnolia Masters?

http://magnoliamasters.com/

The workouts are posted under the swim efficiancy tab. Have fun .

2013-10-29 9:39 AM
in reply to: BigDH

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Subject: RE: Help me start a swimming program. Please.
Sorry to hear that you are injured. I have been away from running and cycling for a few months due to injury myself. I have increased my swimming quite a bit during that time. Up from 3x a week to 4-5. I shoot for 5x a week with about 10k. Life happens and I don't always hit that goal. I started out with short sessions and have gradually increased. So far so good. I use Sara McLarty's swim blog 3x a week. Got that recomendation here. Once a week I do hard 100m intervals. For my fifth swim, I do a long continuous swim increasing distance every week. I must say that using the swim blog has been a game changer for me. I love those work outs and look forward to swimming. Sounds like others have some good ideas also. Good luck and heal up quick.
2013-10-29 10:39 AM
in reply to: jswayland

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Subject: RE: Help me start a swimming program. Please.
Originally posted by jswayland

Yanti just mentioned the Swim Secrets by Sheila T...it has a 16 week program that might be interesting to follow.

I have been doing a modified plan that has been helpful to me:

1. Get in the water as much as you can, as many days a week as you can
2. Start slowly. First week - 1000y a session at the most, focusing on form. The set I use for warm up and cool down is 500y, so I just did two sets:

150y crawl
:20 rest
100y crawl
:15 rest
50y crawl
:15 rest
50y kick (flutter down the pool, butterfly back) - if kicking without flippers/zoomers is too difficult, use the flippers
50y catch up drill
50y one arm (left arm down, right arm back) - the purpose of this one is to get you balanced in the water - you don't want to scull too much with the lead arm)
50y kick on back (flutter down, butterfly back)

3. Once I was comfortable that I could easily finish the 1000y, I started adding in sets between the warm-up set and the cool down set:
Set One: 400y
4 (100y on 10 seconds rest to the closest 15 (so if you finished on :02, you would rest to :12, and then start swimming on :15) )
Set Two: 300y
6 (50y fast on :20, :40, :60) - so for me [a 2:00/100y swimmer], I would get about :20 rest between each 50y
Set Three:
500y straight out with 75 easy, 25 hard

4. Some days, I get a warm up, Set One, and a cool down in. Other days (depending on my work schedule), I get a warm up, Set One - Three and a cool down in.

5. Once that becomes doable - throw in another set (sandwiched by the warm-up/cool down set):
1500y
3 (100y hard on 2:20)
3 (100y as easy as you can still holding perfect form on 2:40)
3 (100y hard on 2:20)
3 (100y as easy as you can still holding perfect form on 2:40)
3 (100y hard on 2:20)

6. I also try to throw in one long steady swim day (so this week, I'll do the warm up set, 1500y straight and the cool down set). I spend a lot of time while swimming thinking about form (wide arms, no cross over, gliding on the top of the stroke, pulling over a barrel (elbows high), and pushing the stroke all the way down my leg)

For me - it's been all about getting time in the water. Making myself swim on a regular basis. I will have been doing this "program" for two months by the end of this week and then I'll give Sheila's program a try.

Good luck! (Sorry about the injury - it is so frustrating!)



As a fellow guppie, I recognize that workout. Slowman would be proud.


2013-10-29 10:41 AM
in reply to: JoelO

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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: Help me start a swimming program. Please.

Originally posted by JoelO
Originally posted by jswayland Yanti just mentioned the Swim Secrets by Sheila T...it has a 16 week program that might be interesting to follow. I have been doing a modified plan that has been helpful to me: 1. Get in the water as much as you can, as many days a week as you can 2. Start slowly. First week - 1000y a session at the most, focusing on form. The set I use for warm up and cool down is 500y, so I just did two sets: 150y crawl :20 rest 100y crawl :15 rest 50y crawl :15 rest 50y kick (flutter down the pool, butterfly back) - if kicking without flippers/zoomers is too difficult, use the flippers 50y catch up drill 50y one arm (left arm down, right arm back) - the purpose of this one is to get you balanced in the water - you don't want to scull too much with the lead arm) 50y kick on back (flutter down, butterfly back) 3. Once I was comfortable that I could easily finish the 1000y, I started adding in sets between the warm-up set and the cool down set: Set One: 400y 4 (100y on 10 seconds rest to the closest 15 (so if you finished on :02, you would rest to :12, and then start swimming on :15) ) Set Two: 300y 6 (50y fast on :20, :40, :60) - so for me [a 2:00/100y swimmer], I would get about :20 rest between each 50y Set Three: 500y straight out with 75 easy, 25 hard 4. Some days, I get a warm up, Set One, and a cool down in. Other days (depending on my work schedule), I get a warm up, Set One - Three and a cool down in. 5. Once that becomes doable - throw in another set (sandwiched by the warm-up/cool down set): 1500y 3 (100y hard on 2:20) 3 (100y as easy as you can still holding perfect form on 2:40) 3 (100y hard on 2:20) 3 (100y as easy as you can still holding perfect form on 2:40) 3 (100y hard on 2:20) 6. I also try to throw in one long steady swim day (so this week, I'll do the warm up set, 1500y straight and the cool down set). I spend a lot of time while swimming thinking about form (wide arms, no cross over, gliding on the top of the stroke, pulling over a barrel (elbows high), and pushing the stroke all the way down my leg) For me - it's been all about getting time in the water. Making myself swim on a regular basis. I will have been doing this "program" for two months by the end of this week and then I'll give Sheila's program a try. Good luck! (Sorry about the injury - it is so frustrating!)
As a fellow guppie, I recognize that workout. Slowman would be proud.

Heh. I thought it looked familiar!

2013-10-29 10:45 AM
in reply to: BigDH

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Subject: RE: Help me start a swimming program. Please.
Darren,

If you are just getting back into swimming, I would start slow. When it's someone that comes to me with your background, I typically start them swimming in fins a lot. This will help with taking pressure off your shoulders, allow you to get through an hour swim and put your body in a good position on the water. After that it's all about building "density" in the workouts, training different systems and working on technique all at the same time.

You can follow the workouts we do here: www.magnoliamasters.com/swim-efficiency.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.

Best regards,

Tim Floyd
2013-10-29 11:17 AM
in reply to: snappingt

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Champion
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Calgary
Subject: RE: Help me start a swimming program. Please.
Thanks guys, that is tons of help.
2013-10-29 11:32 AM
in reply to: BigDH

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Exton, PA
Subject: RE: Help me start a swimming program. Please.
Originally posted by BigDH

So I have been running a lot for the past couple years and it turns out all that pounding wasn't the best for me. I ended up with "an angry nerve" in my back, that runs into my right leg that has caused a shocking amount of muscle atrophy. Doc has me on anti inflammatory drugs to chill the nerve out. In the mean time (which I tend to think may be a long time) she says I can swim, so I figure sure what not

Now I don't want to be stupid about swimming like I was about running. I can see myself getting in there and ruining my shoulder or pulling other swimming associated muscles.

I haven't been in the pool for 4 years. Prior to that I learned to swim by reading the TI book and managed to feel pretty comfortable in the water and survived the IM. All of my training was just slow and steady front crawl. Generally once a week, I worked my way up to 2 hours in the pool.

What are some good resources for swim programs. Should I start 5 days a week 20 minutes a day, 3 days a week for 30 min. Should I stick to the crawl or add some other stuff. Do I start intervals right away. I see the doctor next week and my leg is feeling a lot better so I am hoping she gives me some strengthening exercises so I will be hitting the gym too.

I just always loved the water, but between running and biking it got lost in the shuffle. All help and comments appreciated.




You say you have not been in the pool for 4 years but you have done an IM so you were at one point probably had at least a better than average stroke. It sounds as though you just want to get in to stay in shape. So start slow, and if anything hurts go slower or put less pressure on it.

Shoulders is a common swimming injury, be careful not to put to much pressure on them too early. I have back issues as well and I can tell you that pushing off the wall will put a force and a twisting motion into the back that can aggravate your problems, more so if you do flip turns. Not saying this will but it is something most people do not think of. Just don't push off the walls hard.

Different strokes will work different muscle groups but also put forces on your back in different ways, from my experience front crawl(freestyle) but may not be for you.

In your shoes I would start out 2 or 3 days a week with about 30 or 40 minutes of swimming and see how it goes.

With this in mind start out slow
2013-10-29 12:26 PM
in reply to: JoelO

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Master
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100050010010025
Midcoast Maine
Subject: RE: Help me start a swimming program. Please.
Originally posted by JoelO

Originally posted by jswayland

Yanti just mentioned the Swim Secrets by Sheila T...it has a 16 week program that might be interesting to follow.

I have been doing a modified plan that has been helpful to me:

1. Get in the water as much as you can, as many days a week as you can
2. Start slowly. First week - 1000y a session at the most, focusing on form. The set I use for warm up and cool down is 500y, so I just did two sets:

150y crawl
:20 rest
100y crawl
:15 rest
50y crawl
:15 rest
50y kick (flutter down the pool, butterfly back) - if kicking without flippers/zoomers is too difficult, use the flippers
50y catch up drill
50y one arm (left arm down, right arm back) - the purpose of this one is to get you balanced in the water - you don't want to scull too much with the lead arm)
50y kick on back (flutter down, butterfly back)

3. Once I was comfortable that I could easily finish the 1000y, I started adding in sets between the warm-up set and the cool down set:
Set One: 400y
4 (100y on 10 seconds rest to the closest 15 (so if you finished on :02, you would rest to :12, and then start swimming on :15) )
Set Two: 300y
6 (50y fast on :20, :40, :60) - so for me [a 2:00/100y swimmer], I would get about :20 rest between each 50y
Set Three:
500y straight out with 75 easy, 25 hard

4. Some days, I get a warm up, Set One, and a cool down in. Other days (depending on my work schedule), I get a warm up, Set One - Three and a cool down in.

5. Once that becomes doable - throw in another set (sandwiched by the warm-up/cool down set):
1500y
3 (100y hard on 2:20)
3 (100y as easy as you can still holding perfect form on 2:40)
3 (100y hard on 2:20)
3 (100y as easy as you can still holding perfect form on 2:40)
3 (100y hard on 2:20)

6. I also try to throw in one long steady swim day (so this week, I'll do the warm up set, 1500y straight and the cool down set). I spend a lot of time while swimming thinking about form (wide arms, no cross over, gliding on the top of the stroke, pulling over a barrel (elbows high), and pushing the stroke all the way down my leg)

For me - it's been all about getting time in the water. Making myself swim on a regular basis. I will have been doing this "program" for two months by the end of this week and then I'll give Sheila's program a try.

Good luck! (Sorry about the injury - it is so frustrating!)



As a fellow guppie, I recognize that workout. Slowman would be proud.

;-)


2013-10-29 8:01 PM
in reply to: BigDH

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Subject: RE: Help me start a swimming program. Please.
Fire me a PM with your contact details.
2013-10-29 9:01 PM
in reply to: #4887047


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Subject: RE: Help me start a swimming program. Please.
Good stuff
2013-10-30 6:36 AM
in reply to: BigDH

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Pro
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Melbourne FL
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Subject: RE: Help me start a swimming program. Please.

Darren, I'm one that cannot jump in a pool as start doing 1000 yards 3-4 times a week, my neck & left shoulder will start barking at me (old ski accident issue).  As such if I start swimming after a long layoff, I'll start with something like the "0-1650 in six weeks" (actually 700 to 1650).  I find this a good way to build into longer swimming sets, get my form back and build basic swimming related muscular endurance.

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