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2014-01-12 11:35 AM

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Subject: Full IM - Good Start?
This is my first post and I wanted to say HI and and to hopefully get some opinions of my IM training strategy. I know close to nothing about triathlon training, let alone Ironman Training - but I'm dong IM Wisconsin 2014. A little about me...

Name: Mike, age 29
Location: South Minneapolis - I usually run around Lake Nakomis or Lake Harriet
Experience: 2 Marathons, 2 Sprint Triathlons, swimming & running are my strongest
What's Next: Ironman Wisconsin 2014

I use the SuperCoach network training plan (http://www.trifuel.com/triathlon/ironman-workouts/) and am into week 6 right now. I I'm using heart rate training and my range as 144bpm - 167bpm. Where 144 is my 60% heart rate and 167 is my 75% which I consider my anaerobic threshold. I'd like to get a more accurate range and I've been looking for a place in the Twin Cities that can test my Lactate/Anaerobic Threshold but have had no luck - I tried the U of M but they won't return my calls.

I'm trying to nail down my heart rate zone and my nutrition - I'm eating constantly but still dropping weight (I'm 59 150lb, I don't need to drop weight).

I joined this forum to get some insight and maybe some some direction from some triathletes willing to help a beginner. I look forward to browsing the posts and learning more.

Thanks -

SlowPoke






2014-01-12 1:28 PM
in reply to: SlowPoke99

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Brooklyn Park (Twin Cities), MN
Subject: RE: Full IM - Good Start?
Mike,

I had my threshold test done at Lifetime Fitness last year. I'm not sure which clubs do and don't provide the service, but I believe the Target Center club still does that testing. I'd guess you have to be a member, but I'm not sure.

I did a quick google to see what I could find and came up with this page (there's a number at the top you could call to find out more): https://www.lifetimefitness.com/en/programs-and-events/fitness/train...

Good luck in your training and racing.

Jason
2014-01-12 1:50 PM
in reply to: titusj

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Subject: RE: Full IM - Good Start?
Thanks Jason. I had called LifeTime Uptown after I posted but they said they didn't do it, but other locations do. So I'll try the Target Center location next.

I'm gunna respond to my own post an hour after I posted it - classy I know. The SuperCoach training plan has been great for me so far EXCEPT the cycling workouts. I am extremely weak on the bike, but getting better. But this is what I mean for example:

Today's workout says to ride 3 x 9.3miles in 27minute intervals. WHAT?! That's a steady 20mph! That is not a normal speed is it? I started Week 1 training averaging 10mph (pathetic I know), but now I can steadily ride at 14.5mph. I expect to get faster but never 20mph.

There's my rant. Thanks for listening. haha
2014-01-12 2:30 PM
in reply to: #4929605

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Lakeville, MN
Subject: RE: Full IM - Good Start?
Welcome to the site, and it sounds like you have a decent plan for IMWI.

As far as the bike, it is really something that takes a while to increase your speed and power in your legs. But everyone has their individual strengths and limiters. I see that you have done a couple marathons, so I would guess running may be more of a strength for you?

Believe it or not, there are people out there that ride 20-21+ mph on a regular basis in training....it is all about the volume and training

Good luck this year
2014-01-12 4:14 PM
in reply to: SlowPoke99

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Maple Grove
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Subject: RE: Full IM - Good Start?

Welcome to the site and best of luck to you! I am doing IM wisconsin as my first full IM as well. I have done a couple of HIMs, but never a full. I've also never run a full marathon, and I'm not sure I will until the race. Your question is an excellent one and one which you should consider posting on the tri talk board to get some broader opinions. As far as the local (lactate testing) questions, LTF does it, as you've discovered. Not sure who else in the Cities is doing it, maybe the Y? If you plan to use heart rate as your guide, I would suggest a field test as described in Mike Ricci's thread (might be 24 pages now) and article, as well as the BT lactate threshold calculator. It has been my guide for the last 3 years and has been spot on. As far as the cycling goes, it will come with time. Volume on the bike is the biggest bulk of training for good reason, so continue to focus on that as you can.

Good luck, and I'll see you in Madison!

Ryan

2014-01-12 6:11 PM
in reply to: SlowPoke99

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Minneapolis, MN
Subject: RE: Full IM - Good Start?
Welcome to the site. If you are consistent with your bike training , your speed will increase.

I am going to change thoughts a little: what does race schedule look like this year , leading up to Wisconsin ?

I know you have run marathons, I just curious as to whether you plan on doing mid range races through the summer. Experience can be invaluable


2014-01-21 9:22 AM
in reply to: peteweb55403

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Subject: RE: Full IM - Good Start?
Thanks for the replies everyone. I just had my VO2 and Lactate done at the U of M and it told me that I'm burning too many carbs & not enough fat even at a low heart rate. I'm gunna scan it and post it in a different part of this forum.

The SuperCoach training plan includes mostly high intensity, short duration workouts that won't help me build my base. So it looks like I might be looking for a new plan. - bummer, but I had a feeling the SuperCoach plan was too high intensity, too early.

Peteweb - right now I don't have any races on my calendar. Unless it fits into my training plan, or is a time trial that will help me plan my training, I'm not going to race until IM race day.

At this point, after my VO2 and Lactate results, I'm going to focus on fat burning exercises. Woke up this morning, ate nothing, and am going to bike at 140bpm for 3 hours or so. Plan to do this once per week. Also adjust my diet to include fat as primary macronutrient.

I need to do more research on respiratory exchange ratio and how to lower this number through training and diet. Maybe this forum will provide some info too.

Thanks again!

-Mike
2014-01-21 9:22 AM
in reply to: peteweb55403

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Subject: RE: Full IM - Good Start?
Thanks for the replies everyone. I just had my VO2 and Lactate done at the U of M and it told me that I'm burning too many carbs & not enough fat even at a low heart rate. I'm gunna scan it and post it in a different part of this forum.

The SuperCoach training plan includes mostly high intensity, short duration workouts that won't help me build my base. So it looks like I might be looking for a new plan. - bummer, but I had a feeling the SuperCoach plan was too high intensity, too early.

Peteweb - right now I don't have any races on my calendar. Unless it fits into my training plan, or is a time trial that will help me plan my training, I'm not going to race until IM race day.

At this point, after my VO2 and Lactate results, I'm going to focus on fat burning exercises. Woke up this morning, ate nothing, and am going to bike at 140bpm for 3 hours or so. Plan to do this once per week. Also adjust my diet to include fat as primary macronutrient.

I need to do more research on respiratory exchange ratio and how to lower this number through training and diet. Maybe this forum will provide some info too.

Thanks again!

-Mike
2014-01-21 10:17 AM
in reply to: SlowPoke99

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Master
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Minnetonka, Minnesota
Subject: RE: Full IM - Good Start?
Why do you want to burn fat? Your post above says you are 5'9" and weigh 150 and "don't need to lose weight". And why would one ever want fat as one's primary macronutrient - unless you are maybe on an Artic expedition???
2014-01-21 1:15 PM
in reply to: ejshowers

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Subject: RE: Full IM - Good Start?
because I'm competing in an Ironman, not a sprint tri. So 15 hours of racing I'm going to need to maximize fat metoblism. I'm not going to carry a case of GU with me, so I need to rely on fat burning, not carb.

Do you race ultra distance ejshowers?

2014-01-22 11:50 AM
in reply to: 0

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Master
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WBL, MN
Subject: RE: Full IM - Good Start?
Welcome to the board. I'll bite.

You state in your original email: "I joined this forum to get some insight and maybe some direction from some triathletes willing to help a beginner. I look forward to browsing the posts and learning more"

My insight

I abandoned getting caught up in the numbers long ago (except wattage on the bike) and train / race mostly by RPE nowadays.

Run slow and build base and maybe do some strength training in the off season. Pick up intensity and hours as prescribed in the plan.

Get a reputable plan. Execute the plan. Get to the line healthy. Enjoy the race.



Edited by leapdog 2014-01-22 11:51 AM


2014-01-26 8:48 PM
in reply to: SlowPoke99

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Minneapolis, MN
Subject: RE: Full IM - Good Start?
Getting better fat adapted has seemed to really help me out this winter. I'm running faster and longer on no food. The biggest thing that I changed was to "do my best" at limiting sugars and grains.

Also I have not done an ironman, and never will, but I would recommend you look into Chisago half iron man. I know a lot of IM Wisconsin racer that use that as a good training day. It's relatively cheap, close to the metro and well run. Practice makes perfect.
2014-01-27 10:43 AM
in reply to: SlowPoke99

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Maple Grove
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Subject: RE: Full IM - Good Start?

Originally posted by SlowPoke99 Thanks for the replies everyone. I just had my VO2 and Lactate done at the U of M and it told me that I'm burning too many carbs & not enough fat even at a low heart rate. I'm gunna scan it and post it in a different part of this forum. The SuperCoach training plan includes mostly high intensity, short duration workouts that won't help me build my base. So it looks like I might be looking for a new plan. - bummer, but I had a feeling the SuperCoach plan was too high intensity, too early. Peteweb - right now I don't have any races on my calendar. Unless it fits into my training plan, or is a time trial that will help me plan my training, I'm not going to race until IM race day. At this point, after my VO2 and Lactate results, I'm going to focus on fat burning exercises. Woke up this morning, ate nothing, and am going to bike at 140bpm for 3 hours or so. Plan to do this once per week. Also adjust my diet to include fat as primary macronutrient. I need to do more research on respiratory exchange ratio and how to lower this number through training and diet. Maybe this forum will provide some info too. Thanks again! -Mike

Hi Mike,

At least as of my last testing 2 years ago, I was in the same boat as you. After a year of tri training my VO2 had improved 15% (up to what is "normal" for a healthy adult according to some at ST), but most of my training was targeting LT efforts for sprints and Olympic tris. I think it was this targeting that left my low-effort fat burn pretty minimal. Just like you, even in what I thought was low zone 2 based on LT field testing I had already switched to mostly carb burning. That is when I began training for HIM, and sadly I haven't tested again since then. I'll probably do that in March or April, as I too am doing IMWI and will start a 20 week plan in late April. Pete has it right (I think). Limit the carbs in the diet, especially the simple carbs. Focus on quality carbs, whole foods, vegetables (limit fruits), and add in good amounts of lean protein. That's probably good advice for just about anyone, though I still think it comes down to calories in vs calories out as far as weight loss is concerned. 

Finally, consider doing at least one, if not two HIMs this summer. I'll probably be at Liberty and Chisago. If there was one more week between them, I probably would have considered the HIM at the new HITS race in Waconia. Use those races as a guide to pacing and especially toward a nutrition plan. What do you like to take in, and how much can you tolerate. 

Ryan

2014-03-26 1:30 PM
in reply to: SlowPoke99

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Subject: RE: Full IM - Good Start?

Originally posted by SlowPoke99 This is my first post and I wanted to say HI and and to hopefully get some opinions of my IM training strategy. I know close to nothing about triathlon training, let alone Ironman Training - but I'm dong IM Wisconsin 2014. A little about me... Name: Mike, age 29 Location: South Minneapolis - I usually run around Lake Nakomis or Lake Harriet Experience: 2 Marathons, 2 Sprint Triathlons, swimming & running are my strongest What's Next: Ironman Wisconsin 2014 I use the SuperCoach network training plan (http://www.trifuel.com/triathlon/ironman-workouts/) and am into week 6 right now. I I'm using heart rate training and my range as 144bpm - 167bpm. Where 144 is my 60% heart rate and 167 is my 75% which I consider my anaerobic threshold. I'd like to get a more accurate range and I've been looking for a place in the Twin Cities that can test my Lactate/Anaerobic Threshold but have had no luck - I tried the U of M but they won't return my calls. I'm trying to nail down my heart rate zone and my nutrition - I'm eating constantly but still dropping weight (I'm 59 150lb, I don't need to drop weight). I joined this forum to get some insight and maybe some some direction from some triathletes willing to help a beginner. I look forward to browsing the posts and learning more. Thanks - SlowPoke

I have my new athletes do a 1000m test and then a 3000 meter test on the track to determine their CV (critical velocity) from those 2 tests.  All subsequent training intensities are based on a percentage of their CV depending on the intent of the workout.   I have them do similar tests (5' and 20') on the bike to determine their CP (critical power) which is used to develop their training plan.  Lab tests are expensive and are hard on the budget if you want to conduct multiple tests throughout the season to monitor progress and modify your IM plan according to that progress.

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