Treadmill pace and distance vs outdoors
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2014-01-23 9:29 AM |
274 | Subject: Treadmill pace and distance vs outdoors Unfortunately, I had to do yesterday's run on a treadmill. I wore my Nike+ GPS Sport Watch and had the GPS off and the foot pod on, along with my HRM. Long story short, I ran for 32 minutes and my watch registered 5 miles. While I wish I could run 5 miles at 6:20 pace this is just not anywhere near what I have been doing. Most of my outdoor runs that last 32 minutes I cover at least 4 miles. The treadmill only registered a little over 3 miles. So, while it *felt* like I was moving faster than usual on the treadmill because of the hamster wheel effect, I am trying to equate my effort to an outdoor run. I know my pace/cadence/stride was greater than the 3+ miles the treadmill registered but I also know I didn't run the 5 miles my watch registered. Is there a good rule of thumb for adjusting treadmill workouts to equate them to an outdoor effort? So is the treadmill pace that it shows accurate or is it possible you could be running faster than the belt pace based on cadence, etc? |
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2014-01-23 9:47 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Treadmill pace and distance vs outdoors treadmill pace isn't necessarily accurate. I would gauge effort using your HRM and RPE. Edited by dmiller5 2014-01-23 9:47 AM |
2014-01-23 9:50 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
New user 247 Kenosha | Subject: RE: Treadmill pace and distance vs outdoors Originally posted by dmiller5 treadmill pace isn't necessarily accurate. I would gauge effort using your HRM Totally agree! There's not two treadmills at our gym that are calibrated the same (or accurately). I use my HR as my gauge. |
2014-01-23 10:01 AM in reply to: tb1000 |
Master 2406 Bellevue, WA | Subject: RE: Treadmill pace and distance vs outdoors Quality treadmills can be quite accurate. Some people say to add 1% incline to make up for the motor but others don't. It all depends on your particular treadmill plus how you run. Treadmill running is by nature a but easier because of the consistency and lack of wind etc. Foot pod accuracy is a separate issue entirely. |
2014-01-23 10:26 AM in reply to: brucemorgan |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Treadmill pace and distance vs outdoors I've found I am a little faster outside than what the treadmill pace is. That's with 0 incline. It might be a mental thing for me because treadmill running is so boring! |
2014-01-23 10:35 AM in reply to: mike761 |
Member 763 | Subject: RE: Treadmill pace and distance vs outdoors Originally posted by mike761 I've found I am a little faster outside than what the treadmill pace is. That's with 0 incline. It might be a mental thing for me because treadmill running is so boring! ^^ x2. I find that I'm def faster running outside than inside on my treadmill. Based on my experience, my outdoor pace on a reasonably hilly 6.3 mile course is approx. 15-20 seconds per mile faster than my pace inside on my treadmill on the random program. Some days, I find my outdoor pace is better than treadmill pace by 30-45 seconds. I guess this means I'm really bored on my treadmill... |
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2014-01-23 11:00 AM in reply to: LarchmontTri |
Veteran 869 Stevens Point, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Treadmill pace and distance vs outdoors I've found for me that I am a bit slower outside then on the treadmill but I never had a difference between the two like that. I've been running about a 7:20 min/mile on the treadmill vs a 7:35 min/mile outside. |
2014-01-23 11:11 AM in reply to: Justin86 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: Treadmill pace and distance vs outdoors I vote for setting it 1% up. I have found that get's my HR up to the same point going the same speed on my typical outdoor run and under typical running conditions. |
2014-01-23 11:40 AM in reply to: Kido |
Extreme Veteran 737 | Subject: RE: Treadmill pace and distance vs outdoors I ran on a treadmill last week for the first time in a couple of years. I ran 5k in 33:00 with a 1% incline. Based on my perceived effort, I project in the real world it would have been sub-27:00 easy, even on a non-flat course. My HR was at least 10 BPM higher than usual and I was sucking wind. A coworker tells me she is much faster on a treadmill. Her theory is that, since she was a sprinter in high school and college, she runs on the balls of her feet and that's what makes her faster. My theory is that running on a treadmill sucks. |
2014-01-23 12:12 PM in reply to: tb1000 |
504 | Subject: RE: Treadmill pace and distance vs outdoors I do most of my Winter running on the TM. Today for example, I ran for 50 minutes and it calculated 3 miles. I'm apologize to anyone who actually runs this pace, but my B-I-L with emphysema can run faster than a 50 minute 5K. TMs are notoriously inaccurate, so I don't think any one indoor/outdoor conversion method will be accurate. So I don't rely on the speed, distance, or HR from my TM. I run for set time with a separate HR monitor strapped on me and use that. |
2014-01-23 12:19 PM in reply to: tb1000 |
Regular 606 Portland, Oregon | Subject: RE: Treadmill pace and distance vs outdoors How accurate is the footpod running around a track (w/out GPS)? |
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2014-01-23 12:23 PM in reply to: skibummer |
Master 1517 Grand Prairie | Subject: RE: Treadmill pace and distance vs outdoors The 0.5% or 1% incline on a treadmill is in order to compensate for the lack of wind resistance. The motion of the treadmill pulls your foot backward which is defacto a different movement than running outside. It is also true that treadmills are subject to calibration, a cost often saved by gyms, resulting in in-accurate treadmills. This and the fact that treadmill manufacturer tend to not care about speed accuracy. The foot-pod should be calibrated from time to time, as your running style might change and cause inaccuracies. Then the mental aspect of a treadmill run and the environmental difference. Mentally a treadmill is more of a challenge for me 3 miles on a mill feel like agony and I struggle after 10 minutes. At the same time I can run easily 6 miles outside at a 9 minute mile (keeping my HR around 150)... Personally I calibrate my footpod from time to time and therefore make this my deciding factor on a treadmill |
2014-01-23 1:27 PM in reply to: tb1000 |
1660 | Subject: RE: Treadmill pace and distance vs outdoors Treadmill calibration can be variable, unfortunately. Most home-owned TMs will be fairly accurate, but even a 2% pace discrepancy can mean a missed PR in a 5k, by 20seconds or more.
If you run on various gym different treadmills at different facilities, you'll see this in extremes - I've had TMs that on 0% incline have me running a 5:00min/mile or a 8min/mile for a true 7:00min/mile effort for me (I'm very good at RPE of my true paces from many years of running on a track). More typically though, TMs I've used vary between what I think is 10-40sec/mile from actual real world pace on a track.
I find it best to just recalibrate your TM expectations by HR and/or RPE for training, and use a grain of salt when estimating outdoor performance - I've routinely do actually do outdoor field test 5ks and 10ks to check up on my treadmill training work, but now since I own my TM, I have enough outdoor numbers such that I know that if I can do "x" pace for "y" distance on TM, it will roughly equate to "Z" pace outdoors in a race. |
2014-01-23 1:40 PM in reply to: tb1000 |
Veteran 420 | Subject: RE: Treadmill pace and distance vs outdoors Another factor that I don't see mentioned very often when it comes to dreadmill running is the temperature. This time of year a dreadmill run will likely be much warmer than an outdoor run (depending on where you live of course) which will lead to a higher HR especially if most of your running is outdoors and you're not acclimated to the warmer temps. It will also affect RPE. |
2014-01-23 2:57 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 792 | Subject: RE: Treadmill pace and distance vs outdoors Why are people blaming this on the treadmill? Yes, there are calibration issues...but a 35% variance in calibration? Really? Unless you are a 6:20 runner for 5 miles, the issue isn't just with the treadmill....The issue also has to do with your comparator (the watch/footpod). Since you weren't moving and indoors, I am assuming it was using a footpod to track distance? I think it is odd that people are quicker to believe that the treadmill is less accurate (by 35%) than the footpod. Edited by lifejustice 2014-01-23 3:04 PM |
2014-01-23 3:05 PM in reply to: lifejustice |
1660 | Subject: RE: Treadmill pace and distance vs outdoors Originally posted by lifejustice Why are people blaming this on the treadmill? Yes, there are calibration issues...but a 35% variance in calibration? Really? ...And what kind of treadmills are you guys using that has such crappy speed calculations...and how can you settle for that? Unless you are a 6:20 runner for 5 miles, the issue isn't just with the treadmill....The issue also has to do with your comparator (the watch/footpod). Since you weren't moving and indoors, I am assuming it was using a footpod to track distance? I think it is odd that people are quicker to believe that the treadmill is less accurate (by 35%) than the footpod.
A 35% variation shows that SOMETHING is miscalibrated. It's either the footpod or treadmill, take your pick. Likely a combo of both.
Footpods, when properly calibrated, are typically 95%+ accurate, whereas TMs, especially gym TMs that get heavy use, are often quite off. 35% is a lot, yes, but I routinely see differences of 1:00min/mile, which is a big deal when you're running 6 min/mile on the TM, and it's showing 5 or 7. |
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2014-01-23 3:14 PM in reply to: yazmaster |
Extreme Veteran 792 | Subject: RE: Treadmill pace and distance vs outdoors Originally posted by yazmaster Originally posted by lifejustice Why are people blaming this on the treadmill? Yes, there are calibration issues...but a 35% variance in calibration? Really? ...And what kind of treadmills are you guys using that has such crappy speed calculations...and how can you settle for that? Unless you are a 6:20 runner for 5 miles, the issue isn't just with the treadmill....The issue also has to do with your comparator (the watch/footpod). Since you weren't moving and indoors, I am assuming it was using a footpod to track distance? I think it is odd that people are quicker to believe that the treadmill is less accurate (by 35%) than the footpod.
A 35% variation shows that SOMETHING is miscalibrated. It's either the footpod or treadmill, take your pick. Likely a combo of both.
Footpods, when properly calibrated, are typically 95%+ accurate, whereas TMs, especially gym TMs that get heavy use, are often quite off. 35% is a lot, yes, but I routinely see differences of 1:00min/mile, which is a big deal when you're running 6 min/mile on the TM, and it's showing 5 or 7. I guess I go to a gym where they take care of that stuff, but (too me) If I went to a gym where the treadmills were off by 1mph or more...I would either tell them to get it serviced or change gyms. To me, it is the same as them owning 45lb Olympic plates that are 37lbs. I don't think any lifters would stand for that. "Today I bench pressed 690lbs!" I get that it happens...but the variance amount is sort of up in the stars for me to believe. |
2014-01-23 4:10 PM in reply to: 0 |
274 | Subject: RE: Treadmill pace and distance vs outdoors For what it is worth, I run 4-5 days a week and since the beginning of last year only two of my runs have been on treadmills, yesterday being one of them. I'm confident my footpod is calibrated correctly. Maybe I'm just not used to the treadmill so the feeling was off but I know based on my cadence I ran further than the 3 miles it said but didn't do the 5 miles my watch came up with unless I am a lot faster than I thought I was, which I am going to say is not the case. My best 5-K was a week after my HIM in October and I ran 20:59 on a hilly course. Then I did a fairly hilly 10-miler a few weeks later in 1:19:xx. No big deal. It really threw me off last night and was frustrating because I try to compare my efforts. My HR felt lower relative to my perceived cadence but it also felt like I was working *harder* than usual. Stupid treadmills. They are dead to me. Edited by tb1000 2014-01-23 4:13 PM |
2014-01-23 5:00 PM in reply to: lifejustice |
1660 | Subject: RE: Treadmill pace and distance vs outdoors Originally posted by lifejustice Originally posted by yazmaster I guess I go to a gym where they take care of that stuff, but (too me) If I went to a gym where the treadmills were off by 1mph or more...I would either tell them to get it serviced or change gyms. To me, it is the same as them owning 45lb Olympic plates that are 37lbs. I don't think any lifters would stand for that. "Today I bench pressed 690lbs!" I get that it happens...but the variance amount is sort of up in the stars for me to believe. Originally posted by lifejustice Why are people blaming this on the treadmill? Yes, there are calibration issues...but a 35% variance in calibration? Really? ...And what kind of treadmills are you guys using that has such crappy speed calculations...and how can you settle for that? Unless you are a 6:20 runner for 5 miles, the issue isn't just with the treadmill....The issue also has to do with your comparator (the watch/footpod). Since you weren't moving and indoors, I am assuming it was using a footpod to track distance? I think it is odd that people are quicker to believe that the treadmill is less accurate (by 35%) than the footpod.
A 35% variation shows that SOMETHING is miscalibrated. It's either the footpod or treadmill, take your pick. Likely a combo of both.
Footpods, when properly calibrated, are typically 95%+ accurate, whereas TMs, especially gym TMs that get heavy use, are often quite off. 35% is a lot, yes, but I routinely see differences of 1:00min/mile, which is a big deal when you're running 6 min/mile on the TM, and it's showing 5 or 7.
You might THINK your treadmills are all accurate at your gym, but odds are they are all variable my a small amount. I don't know of any gym that routinely tests the calibration speed of their TMs, unfortunately. In my local YMCAs, which all use the same LifeFitness commercial TMs, I definitely see as much as a 1min/mile variation in the paces amongst TMs even in the same facility.
Unfortunately, commercial gyms don't care about how accurate their TMs are. You can complain to them, and they'll probably tell you, 'sure we'll do it' -but then do nothing. |
2014-01-23 6:57 PM in reply to: brucemorgan |
928 | Subject: RE: Treadmill pace and distance vs outdoors Originally posted by brucemorgan Quality treadmills can be quite accurate. Some people say to add 1% incline to make up for the motor but others don't. It all depends on your particular treadmill plus how you run. Treadmill running is by nature a but easier because of the consistency and lack of wind etc. Foot pod accuracy is a separate issue entirely. This. I've done lots of my run training on a treadmill, and always found them to be close enough to outdoor running on flat ground. Given the variations in terrain that I run on, the treadmill is just one more variation. The treadmill distance would be much closer to the real distance than the footpod distance. Treadmills measure distance by how far the belt moves, but this will feel a bit different than running over ground for various reasons. |
2014-01-24 7:03 AM in reply to: tb1000 |
246 | Subject: RE: Treadmill pace and distance vs outdoors Since its -8° outside I thought it would be a better idea to test my treadmill against my footpod/910 combo, than bundle up. I only did 3 miles but did a few intervals after the first couple miles. When my 3 mile alert went off on my watch, my treadmill was at 2.94. I also checked my stride length to what I know is accurate for that same speed outdoors. That was dead-on too. I've always felt, however, that if I'm running at an above threshold pace indoors on my treadmill, I can't match my outdoor pace. Now, my club has a few treadmills that I can run a minute faster according to their display. In fact, there's one particular TM there that everyone flocks to because its so off, everyone brags about their 6 minute mile pace over 5K. Yet, the same people can't get below 22 minutes outside. And they still believe the treadmill is accurate! Go figure. |
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2014-01-24 8:27 AM in reply to: tb1000 |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Treadmill pace and distance vs outdoors Treadmills are never really accurate, but if you want use the same treadmill every time so you have accuracy within your own runs. Running on the treadmill is not the same as running on the ground. With treadmills the surface is moving below you, outside it is not. So do not use the treadmill to measure progress if that is what you are looking for. Personally I use the treadmills for strength workouts, cadence, working on GCT, any race specific stuff is done outside in similar conditions, terrain, etc for the race. |
2014-01-24 9:27 AM in reply to: tb1000 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Treadmill pace and distance vs outdoors Clearly your footpod did not accurately calculate the distance you might have covered. Probably because your stride is not quite the same on the treadmill. The treadmill might have been somewhat off too, but I will bet it was much closer to the speed you were actually running. |
2014-01-24 9:31 AM in reply to: bcagle25 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Treadmill pace and distance vs outdoors Originally posted by bcagle25 Treadmills are never really accurate I find it funny that many people believe this, yet put their full faith in GPS and/or footpods. I agree that the treadmill may not be 'really accurate', but a decent treadmill is going to be MUCH more accurate than either of the other two in most cases. |
2014-01-24 10:50 AM in reply to: JohnnyKay |
Veteran 740 The Woodlands, TX | Subject: RE: Treadmill pace and distance vs outdoors I would tend to agree that most commercial treadmills are pretty good. If you have a magnet-based bike computer, you could always put it to the test. Hold you bike wheel on the treadmill for a few minutes and compare speed & distance to what the treadmill display says. I'm guessing the bike computer will be a lot more accurate for comparisons than most foot pods. I think the guys at my gym would let me do this at an off-peak time when things are not too busy. |
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