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2014-02-10 12:47 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Benefit of zone 2 running at low volume?

Yeah, I think the "it depends" answer is quite accurate.

It's pretty safe to say that a mix of mostly easy, sometimes hard running is probably the best way for everyone to train. But the exact percentages of the hard and easy are going to be highly individual and ever changing, really.

Colin is actually a really good example. He runs easy for most all of his mileage. He knows, from experience, that when he adds intensity he dramatically increases his chances of injury. So he sacrifices that fast running for more volume and that allows him to continue to train and most important, make it to the start line. In fact he just ran a 1:20 HM and the dude is old (sorry Colin, throwing ya under the bus.

 

 

As for the original question, I think it's most ideal to to have a mix of easy and hard running, no matter the volume. The exact mix will be determined by quite a few variables.



2014-02-10 12:53 PM
in reply to: triosaurus

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Subject: RE: Benefit of zone 2 running at low volume?
to start with, depending on your level,

you can start with relatively short 5-6% incline repetition of perhaps 30 sec. Those are done at a effort comparable to a 5km hard effort. Now, for 30 sec, that wont be something very stressfull on your body because of the short duration. it s also very low impact on the legs. Focus on running tall, quick light turnover, short contact to the grown, driving the knee. and arms pumping.

walk down slowly between rep.... we arent trying to stress your body in a aerobic way but trying to teach very good running form/patern and developp specific strength.

That as a very good result of been very effective in injury prevention. if you are starting with this.... perhaps 4 to 6 repeat is enough once a week at the end of a easy run. As you progress and have establish a good consistant training routine injury free, we can start adding those twice a week, or finishing your easy run and doing 6-8 strides. all about making little changes very slowly that when add together, will have a big effect on performance

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2014-02-10 2:00 PM
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Subject: RE: Benefit of zone 2 running at low volume?

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by Left Brain

"fast" is relative.....but you can't truly run fast if you don't do some fast training.  That 2 or 3 minutes you take off your 5K by running nothing but z2 is just the tip of the iceberg....and I would argue that it may be faster then you've ever ran, but it's not what you are capable of.  Yes, how much depends on age, experience, goals, etc.....but fast running comes from running fast.

you do have to do some fast running, but 80% easier running and 20% fast running may be enough, especially if you don't yet have the volume to support it.

 

Mostly....but I think it depends on the stress you are used to...and you can certainly get used to running faster the same as you can get used to running longer....to say otherwise would debunk the idea of running more......it's about stress, not distance or speed. You get hurt when you add stress too quickly.   We'll have this discussion until the cows come home because I know it can be done differently, especially for distances up to 10K, because I see it all the time and the times keep dropping, but the mileage doesn't go up.  Well over 60% of the running the 15:XX and under 5ker's I watch is NOT easy running by our definitions......and none of them have big volume running behind them, ESPECIALLY the triathletes who train long hours in the pool and on the bike.....the running is the least of their time....but it's very focused and always includes drilling to maintain good form.  Sure, there are some 6-10 mile runs in there, but mostly it's hill work, intervals,  and tempo work......usually about 30 minutes worth..... but all at race pace or faster with rest intervals.  I don't see many injuries, and I think it's because of the low volume.  The only injury came when a HS XC coach still worked under the idea of high mileage as THE answer. 



Edited by Left Brain 2014-02-10 2:02 PM
2014-02-10 4:54 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Benefit of zone 2 running at low volume?

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by Left Brain

"fast" is relative.....but you can't truly run fast if you don't do some fast training.  That 2 or 3 minutes you take off your 5K by running nothing but z2 is just the tip of the iceberg....and I would argue that it may be faster then you've ever ran, but it's not what you are capable of.  Yes, how much depends on age, experience, goals, etc.....but fast running comes from running fast.

you do have to do some fast running, but 80% easier running and 20% fast running may be enough, especially if you don't yet have the volume to support it.

 

Mostly....but I think it depends on the stress you are used to...and you can certainly get used to running faster the same as you can get used to running longer....to say otherwise would debunk the idea of running more......it's about stress, not distance or speed. You get hurt when you add stress too quickly.   We'll have this discussion until the cows come home because I know it can be done differently, especially for distances up to 10K, because I see it all the time and the times keep dropping, but the mileage doesn't go up.  Well over 60% of the running the 15:XX and under 5ker's I watch is NOT easy running by our definitions......and none of them have big volume running behind them, ESPECIALLY the triathletes who train long hours in the pool and on the bike.....the running is the least of their time....but it's very focused and always includes drilling to maintain good form.  Sure, there are some 6-10 mile runs in there, but mostly it's hill work, intervals,  and tempo work......usually about 30 minutes worth..... but all at race pace or faster with rest intervals.  I don't see many injuries, and I think it's because of the low volume.  The only injury came when a HS XC coach still worked under the idea of high mileage as THE answer. 

Or age

2014-02-10 7:19 PM
in reply to: cathyd

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Subject: RE: Benefit of zone 2 running at low volume?

Originally posted by cathyd

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by Left Brain

"fast" is relative.....but you can't truly run fast if you don't do some fast training.  That 2 or 3 minutes you take off your 5K by running nothing but z2 is just the tip of the iceberg....and I would argue that it may be faster then you've ever ran, but it's not what you are capable of.  Yes, how much depends on age, experience, goals, etc.....but fast running comes from running fast.

you do have to do some fast running, but 80% easier running and 20% fast running may be enough, especially if you don't yet have the volume to support it.

 

Mostly....but I think it depends on the stress you are used to...and you can certainly get used to running faster the same as you can get used to running longer....to say otherwise would debunk the idea of running more......it's about stress, not distance or speed. You get hurt when you add stress too quickly.   We'll have this discussion until the cows come home because I know it can be done differently, especially for distances up to 10K, because I see it all the time and the times keep dropping, but the mileage doesn't go up.  Well over 60% of the running the 15:XX and under 5ker's I watch is NOT easy running by our definitions......and none of them have big volume running behind them, ESPECIALLY the triathletes who train long hours in the pool and on the bike.....the running is the least of their time....but it's very focused and always includes drilling to maintain good form.  Sure, there are some 6-10 mile runs in there, but mostly it's hill work, intervals,  and tempo work......usually about 30 minutes worth..... but all at race pace or faster with rest intervals.  I don't see many injuries, and I think it's because of the low volume.  The only injury came when a HS XC coach still worked under the idea of high mileage as THE answer. 

Or age

Sure...but I think it's relative.  I can still run fast for my age, but I seldom do it anymore.  In fact, I was running almost all z2, and about 120 mpm, with a couple of 150's when my knee gave way......looking back, and down the road, I'll run much less but run faster more often once I get going again.  So I run a mile at 6:15 or so, or run 4 X 400 and 2 X 800 with good rest between, or run 3-6 at 9:00.....I bet I don't have any more health issues running "fast".  But what I do know is that my older body got real used to running 9:00.....and running 6:15 wasn't any fun anymore.

2014-02-10 7:23 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Benefit of zone 2 running at low volume?

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by cathyd

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by Left Brain

"fast" is relative.....but you can't truly run fast if you don't do some fast training.  That 2 or 3 minutes you take off your 5K by running nothing but z2 is just the tip of the iceberg....and I would argue that it may be faster then you've ever ran, but it's not what you are capable of.  Yes, how much depends on age, experience, goals, etc.....but fast running comes from running fast.

you do have to do some fast running, but 80% easier running and 20% fast running may be enough, especially if you don't yet have the volume to support it.

 

Mostly....but I think it depends on the stress you are used to...and you can certainly get used to running faster the same as you can get used to running longer....to say otherwise would debunk the idea of running more......it's about stress, not distance or speed. You get hurt when you add stress too quickly.   We'll have this discussion until the cows come home because I know it can be done differently, especially for distances up to 10K, because I see it all the time and the times keep dropping, but the mileage doesn't go up.  Well over 60% of the running the 15:XX and under 5ker's I watch is NOT easy running by our definitions......and none of them have big volume running behind them, ESPECIALLY the triathletes who train long hours in the pool and on the bike.....the running is the least of their time....but it's very focused and always includes drilling to maintain good form.  Sure, there are some 6-10 mile runs in there, but mostly it's hill work, intervals,  and tempo work......usually about 30 minutes worth..... but all at race pace or faster with rest intervals.  I don't see many injuries, and I think it's because of the low volume.  The only injury came when a HS XC coach still worked under the idea of high mileage as THE answer. 

Or age

Sure...but I think it's relative.  I can still run fast for my age, but I seldom do it anymore.  In fact, I was running almost all z2, and about 120 mpm, with a couple of 150's when my knee gave way......looking back, and down the road, I'll run much less but run faster more often once I get going again.  So I run a mile at 6:15 or so, or run 4 X 400 and 2 X 800 with good rest between, or run 3-6 at 9:00.....I bet I don't have any more health issues running "fast".  But what I do know is that my older body got real used to running 9:00.....and running 6:15 wasn't any fun anymore.

Any idea how the amount fast to easy might compare?



2014-02-10 7:39 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: Benefit of zone 2 running at low volume?

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by cathyd

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by Left Brain

"fast" is relative.....but you can't truly run fast if you don't do some fast training.  That 2 or 3 minutes you take off your 5K by running nothing but z2 is just the tip of the iceberg....and I would argue that it may be faster then you've ever ran, but it's not what you are capable of.  Yes, how much depends on age, experience, goals, etc.....but fast running comes from running fast.

you do have to do some fast running, but 80% easier running and 20% fast running may be enough, especially if you don't yet have the volume to support it.

 

Mostly....but I think it depends on the stress you are used to...and you can certainly get used to running faster the same as you can get used to running longer....to say otherwise would debunk the idea of running more......it's about stress, not distance or speed. You get hurt when you add stress too quickly.   We'll have this discussion until the cows come home because I know it can be done differently, especially for distances up to 10K, because I see it all the time and the times keep dropping, but the mileage doesn't go up.  Well over 60% of the running the 15:XX and under 5ker's I watch is NOT easy running by our definitions......and none of them have big volume running behind them, ESPECIALLY the triathletes who train long hours in the pool and on the bike.....the running is the least of their time....but it's very focused and always includes drilling to maintain good form.  Sure, there are some 6-10 mile runs in there, but mostly it's hill work, intervals,  and tempo work......usually about 30 minutes worth..... but all at race pace or faster with rest intervals.  I don't see many injuries, and I think it's because of the low volume.  The only injury came when a HS XC coach still worked under the idea of high mileage as THE answer. 

Or age

Sure...but I think it's relative.  I can still run fast for my age, but I seldom do it anymore.  In fact, I was running almost all z2, and about 120 mpm, with a couple of 150's when my knee gave way......looking back, and down the road, I'll run much less but run faster more often once I get going again.  So I run a mile at 6:15 or so, or run 4 X 400 and 2 X 800 with good rest between, or run 3-6 at 9:00.....I bet I don't have any more health issues running "fast".  But what I do know is that my older body got real used to running 9:00.....and running 6:15 wasn't any fun anymore.

Any idea how the amount fast to easy might compare?

Not yet, because I don't know what my knee will allow.  I'm back to walking 3 miles 4 times a week and will run soon, but I will do much more short interval work than I was doing, and a ton of drilling.....because just running more didn't do much for my running (and I know made me lazy with my run form), and I'd rather run faster shorter and spend the extra time on the bike or in the pool where my legs aren't getting beat by long pounding runs.  My guess is that 50% of my running will be intervals....with total miles WAY down.

2014-02-10 8:45 PM
in reply to: Asalzwed

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Subject: RE: Benefit of zone 2 running at low volume?
Whoa, look at the fun I've been missing all day (my little girl turned 12 today, and there was cake ... far more nutritious than arguing with you lot, I'm afraid). I'll just chime in with a couple of comments.

I don't dispute the benefits of high intensity training. It's useful, it's fun, and it hurts enough to satisfy all those macho slogans that we like to throw around. What's not to like! But our ability to tolerate that kind of work seems to be quite varying across individuals. It's great that some can do this kind of training, and I loved it back in the day when it was my staple diet. But not everybody can get away with that, especially the more 'mature' among us. It is dangerous for us to spread the notion that people cannot make good progress without going all all, which is what so much in this culture conditions us to believe. Individuals need to learn how their body responds. And hopefully in a way that does not make them give up in despair and go back to the couch.

It's also quite possible that we are vulnerable to different kinds of injuries. It could be that some are more affected by volume while others are more affected by intensity. We just don't know, and even if we did know it would be hard to figure out why. On this I agree with others that trial and error are important. Just blaming injuries on "bad coaching" etc. doesn't help much (... even if you're somebody who is selling coaching services).

Finally, I think it helps to recognize that sometimes the real-world practice is ahead of the science. I think that's currently true of run training, where there are practices that are highly effective, though we don't yet properly understand why. We know a lot about the aerobic and anaerobic adaptations from different types of high intensity running - that has a lot of overlap with cycling, rowing etc., both of which are easier to study. But I think we do not yet properly understand why (many) people benefit enormously from simply running a lot, even if they almost never run terribly quickly. I can't claim that it works for everybody, but for many people the results are quite surprising. I didn't try this until I read lots of testimonials here, and I've been shocked by how much it has helped me. But I don't know why it works. I have been digging around in the physiology literature, and the best that I can find so far involves the physiology of eccentric muscle contractions [... geek alert]

We've all noticed that on the day after a hard/long race it's walking downstairs that's painful, not so much going upstairs. That's because going downstairs highlights the strain that the race put on our ability to handle eccentric contractions. These are the same muscles that get really sore if we walk or run downhill for a long while: the legs can get trashed, even though the aerobic effort feels really easy. My hunch is that this connection is important: fast running and going downhill involve similar limiters, and they're not all aerobic. Mountain runners get faster on the downhills by practicing downhill running, even though it's aerobically very easy. And some of the benefit from steady running on the flat is a milder version of what mountain runners do. That might be why easy running helps in a way that easy cycling does not. So what is it that this kind of practice improves? The science of DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) is trying to figure that out. DOMS is particularly acute as a result of eccentric contractions, and folks are trying to figure out why fatigue from eccentric contractions is different than fatigue from standard concentric contraction (which is better understood). Since the causes of DOMS are not yet well understood, I think it's unsurprising that it's not yet easy to measure how eccentric training leads to effective adaptations in running. My guess is that 10+ years from now we'll understand much better why so many of us find that we run our best 5k times when we're in marathon training, counterintuitive though it seems.
2014-02-10 9:17 PM
in reply to: colinphillips

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Subject: RE: Benefit of zone 2 running at low volume?

Originally posted by colinphillips . I think that's currently true of run training, where there are practices that are highly effective, though we don't yet properly understand why. We know a lot about the aerobic and anaerobic adaptations from different types of high intensity running - that has a lot of overlap with cycling, rowing etc., both of which are easier to study. But I think we do not yet properly understand why (many) people benefit enormously from simply running a lot, even if they almost never run terribly quickly. I can't claim that it works for everybody, but for many people the results are quite surprising. I didn't try this until I read lots of testimonials here, and I've been shocked by how much it has helped me..

 

Haven't you been injured quite a bit lately?

2014-02-10 9:43 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Benefit of zone 2 running at low volume?
Originally posted by Left Brain
Haven't you been injured quite a bit lately?


There's no denying that. In fact, what I was referring to in that remark was speed benefits, not injury avoidance.

But context matters here - I'm setting it against my background as a physical disaster. Until 2010 I thought I was finished as a runner. I hadn't trained seriously since '95, and every time that I tried I got hurt. Totally frustrated. That was what started me on biking, which is how I came here. Then when I started running in the way that I had when I was younger, I got hurt pretty darn quick. Gradually learned to run steady and often, and I was able to last much longer without getting hurt. I had a great year in '11, set a HM PR, and then got hurt from getting carried away and doing intensity that I wasn't prepared for. Same again in early '12 when I tried to do some long interval training. For the last 2 years I've been dealing with different consequences of that. Some calf problems here, achilles problems there, and occasional PF. But it's consistently the most vulnerable when I go too hard too often. I've been doing better more recently by being more disciplined about easy days, and by taking more seriously the little strengthening exercises that help with my weaknesses. My body was bulletproof as a kid, but it's fragile now. But the fact that I'm this week running the highest volume of my life feels fantastic.

I'm not so surprised that running steady-and-often makes me less of an injury-riddled wreck. It's the speed benefits that really surprise me.
2014-02-11 1:36 AM
in reply to: colinphillips

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Subject: RE: Benefit of zone 2 running at low volume?
a reply to a few of your quote:
----------------------------------
''Just blaming injuries on "bad coaching" etc. doesn't help much (... even if you're somebody who is selling coaching services). ''
--------------------------------
I m not necessary trying to help, i dont know your case or others. i m just telling the true. There is a reason some coaches team/squad have very low injury compare to other squad. it s the simple true. Good coaching.

--------------------------------------------
'' But I think we do not yet properly understand why (many) people benefit enormously from simply running a lot, even if they almost never run terribly quickly. I can't claim that it works for everybody, but for many people the results are quite surprising.''
--------------------------------------------

it s something very well understand and there is no question that someone like Joel filliol, jack daniels, brett sutton would give a much better lecture on the subject than me. But it come down to what i try to explain to you in the past. TRAINING LOAD. good volume at low intensity can still result in a high training load and get you very fit. It s just that there is also other way to do the same or better by variation of the way you get that training load. But in term of understanding why some runners will do well under high volume and low intensty is very well understood.

---------------------------------
'' I didn't try this until I read lots of testimonials here, and I've been shocked by how much it has helped me. But I don't know why it works. I have been digging around in the physiology literature, and the best that I can find so far involves the physiology of eccentric muscle contractions [... geek alert] ''
------------------------------

you are over complicating it. it s a lot more simple and i suggest you start at the beginning by reading a book like ''Lord of running by Tim Noakes that will give you a good understanding of the basic concept of training and physiology. i highly recommend the book.

-----------------------------------
'' My guess is that 10+ years from now we'll understand much better why so many of us find that we run our best 5k times when we're in marathon training, counter intuitive though it seems.''
---------------------------------

once again...... you will understand after reading the book. You dont have to wait 10 years. Even easy for me to show you or anyone else is if you had a good log book of your training loading up to the marathon and your past best 5km. Then, that would actually be a very informative session for everyone. But i will let you guess the explanation on that one.

and sincerly hope you get on the path to be healthy...because while i do enjoy debating idea and sharing knowledge and education on the subject, the last thing i would wish for anyone involved is to be sidelined and not able to practice the sport they love.

best of luck!


2014-02-11 2:53 AM
in reply to: jonnyo

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Subject: RE: Benefit of zone 2 running at low volume?
People! I think you're forgetting OPs question. OP ask low vs high intensity given the following two restrictions:

Training: Max 30 minutes

Races: 5K and sprint triathlon

Given that OP only can find time to do runs of less than 30 minutes, so there's no point of telling OP to do long slow distance run (>60 minutes). I think high intensity is more beneficial for improving fitness and performance. OP will likely benefit from high intensity interval training such as 10-20-30, fartlek and similar.

OP has taken the consequence and will only do 5K races and sprint triathlons, and I think that this is perfectly possible and that high intensity training will provide the best results.

As for injuries:

I think the risk of stress injuries is low, the risk increases with fatigue and volume, and fatigue comes sooner at high intensity, but 30 minutes is such a short time that I think this should not be a concern.

The main risk is acute injuries such as twisting and ankle, the risk increases with fatigue and intensity. High intensity/speed means you have less time to react if landing wrong and that impact is higher. To reduce this risk, do drills, balancing and strength exercises.
2014-02-11 8:29 AM
in reply to: erik.norgaard

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Subject: RE: Benefit of zone 2 running at low volume?

The OP should probably first fill their available running time with mostly easy running (some strides and, maybe, some hill work might be some of the excepted intensity during this time).  Once they are maxed out on time (and have sustained that load for a bit), then they should introduce some more intensity.  Probably a variety of different intensities over time.  But care should always be taken when increasing training load.  And adding intensity is often not additive to load, but multiplicative (so use extra care in its application).  As noted, it's all about managing the training load.  In particular, the goal is to create progressive overload to force adaptations.  Hopefully, without breaking anything in the process. 

2014-02-11 11:28 AM
in reply to: erik.norgaard


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Subject: RE: Benefit of zone 2 running at low volume?

Originally posted by erik.norgaard People! I think you're forgetting OPs question. OP ask low vs high intensity given the following two restrictions: Training: Max 30 minutes Races: 5K and sprint triathlon Given that OP only can find time to do runs of less than 30 minutes, so there's no point of telling OP to do long slow distance run (>60 minutes). I think high intensity is more beneficial for improving fitness and performance. OP will likely benefit from high intensity interval training such as 10-20-30, fartlek and similar. OP has taken the consequence and will only do 5K races and sprint triathlons, and I think that this is perfectly possible and that high intensity training will provide the best results. As for injuries: I think the risk of stress injuries is low, the risk increases with fatigue and volume, and fatigue comes sooner at high intensity, but 30 minutes is such a short time that I think this should not be a concern. The main risk is acute injuries such as twisting and ankle, the risk increases with fatigue and intensity. High intensity/speed means you have less time to react if landing wrong and that impact is higher. To reduce this risk, do drills, balancing and strength exercises.

 

I defintiely disagree with you on the injury front. 

 

Doing high intensity interval training with no base or no prior experience building a previous base is a recipe for injuries in most adult runners, particularly those motivated to improve and who really hammer on the intervals. It's even worse if you were a sprint-sport player in your youth like basketball, soccer, or football, as you likely have enough muscle and power to strain something if you start going hard on it.

 

The duration of workouts is much, much less of a injury factor compared to the peak intensity for triathletes who typically run well under 50mpw. I could go out tomorrow and wipe out over half the local triathlon club AGers if I made them go out without base and do a workout of 10 x 100m sprints, all-out no-holds barred, even though the total time run is <8 minutes. A good % of those folks would have strains that would require significant time off. In contrast, those same runners could run 2,3,5, and if experienced, much more, at an aerobic clip, completely safely.

 

I do think you have to run fast to get optimal performance for racing, but that should only be done after building a base, or at least slowly building toward faster speeds so you can avoid a training-ending strain/sprain. I've seen wayyyy too many runners over my past 20 years of running with various clubs and people of all abilities to think otherwise.

2014-02-11 7:26 PM
in reply to: erik.norgaard

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Subject: RE: Benefit of zone 2 running at low volume?
Originally posted by erik.norgaard

People! I think you're forgetting OPs question. OP ask low vs high intensity given the following two restrictions:


You're right Erik. Apologies.

Though as yazmaster points out, 30 minutes is *plenty* of time to get injured. Heck, many of us are talented enough to get hurt in a fraction of that time.
2014-02-11 7:46 PM
in reply to: colinphillips

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Subject: RE: Benefit of zone 2 running at low volume?

Originally posted by colinphillips
Originally posted by erik.norgaard People! I think you're forgetting OPs question. OP ask low vs high intensity given the following two restrictions:
You're right Erik. Apologies. Though as yazmaster points out, 30 minutes is *plenty* of time to get injured. Heck, many of us are talented enough to get hurt in a fraction of that time.

LOL.  For whatever reason, I remember that back in 2010, I glanced at my watch when I tore my Achilles tendon exactly 8m:27s  into my morning training run...

Mark



2014-02-12 3:01 AM
in reply to: yazmaster

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Subject: RE: Benefit of zone 2 running at low volume?
Originally posted by yazmaster

I defintiely disagree with you on the injury front. 

Doing high intensity interval training with no base or no prior experience building a previous base is a recipe for injuries in most adult runners, particularly those motivated to improve and who really hammer on the intervals.


Don't me wrong, I don't claim that there is no risk of injury, and clearly lack of prior training, and poor form increases the risk of any injury.

But, the kind of injuries you are likely to suffer differ if you do short high(er) intensity workouts compared to long low(er) intensity workouts, and that should be taken into consideration when it comes to injury prevention, doing drills and other exercises, etc.
2014-02-12 3:22 AM
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Subject: RE: Benefit of zone 2 running at low volume?

Originally posted by erik.norgaard
Originally posted by yazmaster I defintiely disagree with you on the injury front.  Doing high intensity interval training with no base or no prior experience building a previous base is a recipe for injuries in most adult runners, particularly those motivated to improve and who really hammer on the intervals.
Don't me wrong, I don't claim that there is no risk of injury, and clearly lack of prior training, and poor form increases the risk of any injury. But, the kind of injuries you are likely to suffer differ if you do short high(er) intensity workouts compared to long low(er) intensity workouts, and that should be taken into consideration when it comes to injury prevention, doing drills and other exercises, etc.

 

The risk of a muscle strain or tendon strain from doing run speedwork is the highest risk activity of injury for the vast majority of AG triathletes. 

 Speedwork as a place, but the best way to avoid injuries is to actually do a lot of zone2 running until you've proven you can handle the volume and then some, and then add the fast stuff on top. Some folks are lucky and can dive right into the faster stuff safely for whatever reason, be it youth, prior training, other sport fitness, but that doesn't reduce the risk of injury for the typical AG triathlete.

 

It is as you say, a different kind of injury - stress fractures  from running <20-30 mpw are rare. But sprains/strains, common, particularly at that low volume, with speedwork. 



Edited by yazmaster 2014-02-12 3:27 AM
2014-02-12 9:33 AM
in reply to: yazmaster

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Subject: RE: Benefit of zone 2 running at low volume?

Originally posted by yazmaster

Originally posted by erik.norgaard
Originally posted by yazmaster I defintiely disagree with you on the injury front.  Doing high intensity interval training with no base or no prior experience building a previous base is a recipe for injuries in most adult runners, particularly those motivated to improve and who really hammer on the intervals.
Don't me wrong, I don't claim that there is no risk of injury, and clearly lack of prior training, and poor form increases the risk of any injury. But, the kind of injuries you are likely to suffer differ if you do short high(er) intensity workouts compared to long low(er) intensity workouts, and that should be taken into consideration when it comes to injury prevention, doing drills and other exercises, etc.

 

The risk of a muscle strain or tendon strain from doing run speedwork is the highest risk activity of injury for the vast majority of AG triathletes. 

 Speedwork as a place, but the best way to avoid injuries is to actually do a lot of zone2 running until you've proven you can handle the volume and then some, and then add the fast stuff on top. Some folks are lucky and can dive right into the faster stuff safely for whatever reason, be it youth, prior training, other sport fitness, but that doesn't reduce the risk of injury for the typical AG triathlete.

 

It is as you say, a different kind of injury - stress fractures  from running

What's the source for that?

2014-02-12 9:42 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Benefit of zone 2 running at low volume?

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by yazmaster

Originally posted by erik.norgaard
Originally posted by yazmaster I defintiely disagree with you on the injury front.  Doing high intensity interval training with no base or no prior experience building a previous base is a recipe for injuries in most adult runners, particularly those motivated to improve and who really hammer on the intervals.
Don't me wrong, I don't claim that there is no risk of injury, and clearly lack of prior training, and poor form increases the risk of any injury. But, the kind of injuries you are likely to suffer differ if you do short high(er) intensity workouts compared to long low(er) intensity workouts, and that should be taken into consideration when it comes to injury prevention, doing drills and other exercises, etc.

 

The risk of a muscle strain or tendon strain from doing run speedwork is the highest risk activity of injury for the vast majority of AG triathletes. 

 Speedwork as a place, but the best way to avoid injuries is to actually do a lot of zone2 running until you've proven you can handle the volume and then some, and then add the fast stuff on top. Some folks are lucky and can dive right into the faster stuff safely for whatever reason, be it youth, prior training, other sport fitness, but that doesn't reduce the risk of injury for the typical AG triathlete.

 

It is as you say, a different kind of injury - stress fractures  from running

What's the source for that?

x2 doing too much volume too early is just as risky, if not more risky.

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