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Help me figure out how these two runs happened
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 2014-02-25 8:37 PM |
 297   Arden, North Carolina |  Subject: Help me figure out how these two runs happenedSaturday was my "long run". So 80 minutes, very easy pace. My plan was to walk one minute for every 9 of running. So I wound up going 7.16 miles in 80 minutes with an average HR of 159. Today I planned a "race pace" run for 60 minutes. So I intended to go for 10 min miles, not watching HR. I even turned it off so I couldn't see it during my run. No walking either. Today I ran for 6.66 miles in 60 minutes, for a pace of 9 min miles, and an average HR of 160. The weather was virtually identical, as was the terrain. If anything, today's terrain had a couple, very small hills. WHen I say small I mean a rise of maybe 15 feet. My HR profile was vrtually identical after the first 10 minutes. Today my HR shot way up, but i think it was an error, it said i hit 193 within the first minute and I wasn't sprinting out of the gate, other than that it was a gentle rise to where it leveled off around 160. Sat was a struggle to keep it under 160, I had to keep slowing down. I definitely felt today's run more in my legs, where as Saturdays I didn't feel sore at all. However, breathing wise they felt similar. I was never breathing heavy today and could've kept going for a while longer. Reason I say that was I started thinking my battery could be on the fritz. But when it was dieing before it had a much lower HR that it wouldn't go over. Only other difference was that I had a rest day yesterday where as saturdays run I had trained all week. Any thoughts? |
| 2014-02-25 8:44 PM in reply to: TriDadinAsheville |
Pro 15655  | Subject: RE: Help me figure out how these two runs happened Your "race pace" is faster than 10:00 miles. |
| 2014-02-26 6:50 AM in reply to: TriDadinAsheville |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: Help me figure out how these two runs happened Originally posted by TriDadinAsheville Saturday was my "long run". So 80 minutes, very easy pace. My plan was to walk one minute for every 9 of running. So I wound up going 7.16 miles in 80 minutes with an average HR of 159. Today I planned a "race pace" run for 60 minutes. So I intended to go for 10 min miles, not watching HR. I even turned it off so I couldn't see it during my run. No walking either. Today I ran for 6.66 miles in 60 minutes, for a pace of 9 min miles, and an average HR of 160. The weather was virtually identical, as was the terrain. If anything, today's terrain had a couple, very small hills. WHen I say small I mean a rise of maybe 15 feet. My HR profile was vrtually identical after the first 10 minutes. Today my HR shot way up, but i think it was an error, it said i hit 193 within the first minute and I wasn't sprinting out of the gate, other than that it was a gentle rise to where it leveled off around 160. Sat was a struggle to keep it under 160, I had to keep slowing down. I definitely felt today's run more in my legs, where as Saturdays I didn't feel sore at all. However, breathing wise they felt similar. I was never breathing heavy today and could've kept going for a while longer. Reason I say that was I started thinking my battery could be on the fritz. But when it was dieing before it had a much lower HR that it wouldn't go over. Only other difference was that I had a rest day yesterday where as saturdays run I had trained all week. Any thoughts? I think the rest day could definitely be a factor. How was your hydration for each run? Your sleep the night before? HR isn't always a reliable indicator and some days we run and we feel strong and the run feels relatively effortless, others, not so much :) Sounds like you had your two extremes back to back. |
| 2014-02-26 8:38 AM in reply to: switch |
Extreme Veteran 3025  Maryland | Subject: RE: Help me figure out how these two runs happened It is very hard to compare two individual, different runs. Weather, what you ate the day before/morning of, sleep, work stress, life stress, your mood, your mother calling and nagging you about something, can all have an impact. What is more important is to see how you progress over time. I would do a LT HR test to determine what your efforts should be for different runs, and then go from there. |
| 2014-02-26 12:19 PM in reply to: switch |
| 297 Arden, North Carolina | Subject: RE: Help me figure out how these two runs happened There wasn't much difference aside from being more rested. Hydration was probably a bit better going into yesterday's run. Sleep was probably less going into yesterday. However, saturday was not an extreme. Thats pretty much been typical of my long runs. I was slower during last weeks long run. But I typically am in the low 11's for my long runs. So it was yesterday that was strange, not the speed so much, but the fact that my HR stayed down. That NEVER happens for me. |
| 2014-02-26 12:24 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
| 297 Arden, North Carolina | Subject: RE: Help me figure out how these two runs happened Originally posted by dmiller5 It is very hard to compare two individual, different runs. Weather, what you ate the day before/morning of, sleep, work stress, life stress, your mood, your mother calling and nagging you about something, can all have an impact. What is more important is to see how you progress over time. I would do a LT HR test to determine what your efforts should be for different runs, and then go from there. I get that, but it really isn't as much as comparing two runs (i realize that's all I wrote about) but yesterday's run to all my long slow runs. Saturday was a typical day, as I told mentioned the post I just wrote, it was yesterday that was out of whack. I've run that fast before, so the speed wasn't new, it was the fact that my HR stayed down and it didn't feel as hard as I expected it to. LTHR test....ugh, I hate you for bringing that up  The last one I did was a few months ago and it knocked me out for a few days. My calves had never hurt that bad after a run in my life. Those results are what I've been using for my current running. However, when I plugged my times into that V-Dot(I think is what it's called) calculator the paces didn't mesh what what I'd expect my HR to be at those paces. Here's another question for anyone, how much can your mental state affect your HR? One of the other differences was that on saturday I had HR showing on my watch and was constantly watching it, where yesterday I took it off and only ran by "feel" and pace. I wanted to slow down, but I just felt really good at the pace I was going so I never needed to. Can watching your HR trick you into rising it? |
| 2014-02-26 1:41 PM in reply to: TriDadinAsheville |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: Help me figure out how these two runs happened I wouldn't lose any sleep trying to over analyze your runs. Too many variables to factor in. Just log them as data points and move on. I will say that stuff like this is what influenced me to go from training by HR to RPE. Mark |
| 2014-02-26 2:06 PM in reply to: RedCorvette |
| 297 Arden, North Carolina | Subject: RE: Help me figure out how these two runs happened Originally posted by RedCorvette I wouldn't lose any sleep trying to over analyze your runs. Too many variables to factor in. Just log them as data points and move on. I will say that stuff like this is what influenced me to go from training by HR to RPE. Mark That's the biggest thing I'm taking from this. Thinking of changing up as well. Still tracking HR, but mainly going by feel. |
| 2014-02-26 2:32 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 5169 Burbs | Subject: RE: Help me figure out how these two runs happened Originally posted by RedCorvette I wouldn't lose any sleep trying to over analyze your runs. Too many variables to factor in. Just log them as data points and move on. I will say that stuff like this is what influenced me to go from training by HR to RPE. Mark This. Look at your running from a Big Picture standpoint. Sometimes I feel great even when I've had a poor night's sleep and was on my feet all day in heels and ate fast food for lunch, and sometimes I feel slow/ sluggish when I'm rested and eating well. Over analyzing every run isn't helpful -- just keep running Edited by trishie 2014-02-26 2:33 PM |
| 2014-02-27 12:07 PM in reply to: TriDadinAsheville |
Veteran 945 South Windsor, CT | Subject: RE: Help me figure out how these two runs happened Originally posted by TriDadinAsheville Saturday was my "long run". So 80 minutes, very easy pace. My plan was to walk one minute for every 9 of running. So I wound up going 7.16 miles in 80 minutes with an average HR of 159. Today I planned a "race pace" run for 60 minutes. So I intended to go for 10 min miles, not watching HR. I even turned it off so I couldn't see it during my run. No walking either. Today I ran for 6.66 miles in 60 minutes, for a pace of 9 min miles, and an average HR of 160. The weather was virtually identical, as was the terrain. If anything, today's terrain had a couple, very small hills. WHen I say small I mean a rise of maybe 15 feet. My HR profile was vrtually identical after the first 10 minutes. Today my HR shot way up, but i think it was an error, it said i hit 193 within the first minute and I wasn't sprinting out of the gate, other than that it was a gentle rise to where it leveled off around 160. Sat was a struggle to keep it under 160, I had to keep slowing down. I definitely felt today's run more in my legs, where as Saturdays I didn't feel sore at all. However, breathing wise they felt similar. I was never breathing heavy today and could've kept going for a while longer. Reason I say that was I started thinking my battery could be on the fritz. But when it was dieing before it had a much lower HR that it wouldn't go over. Only other difference was that I had a rest day yesterday where as saturdays run I had trained all week. Any thoughts? -oversensing of the HR monitor in the second run (to your cadence), which likely raised the 'average' HR up a bit and caused the 190's (a common mixed stride rate and HR-when I hear about 'high HR's in the 180-190 range', this is what I think of first) -variable cumulative training load/rest between the two runs in the end, they are both just training runs-- but it is good that you are trying to study what was similiar and what was different I'm not sure that it is the best use of the HR monitor as I have no idea how that HR relates to your LT HR...or training load, or lots of other variables that have real meaning...regarding race pacing your HR did not perceice much of a difference between an 80 minute run/walk and a 60 min 'race pace' run and that is a useful piece of information |
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