General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Trainer Road - moving from VP to Quarq Rss Feed  
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2014-03-28 10:18 AM

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Subject: Trainer Road - moving from VP to Quarq
I have been a long time TR user, always using virtual power based on my KK trainer. Within the next week, I am having a Quarq Riken installed on my bike. I also started the 40k TT low volume plan in preparation for my early summer sprint and oly tris.

Current FTP is 260. When I start with the Quarq, do you recommend a retest? I realize there is a (big) difference between virtual power and power but am wondering if I should try the next scheduled workout and see how close I am. I might find out right away that the power is off :-0

What say you? Retest first? Or see what happens? I am leaning towards just trying it knowing a retest is in my near future (fun, fun, fun) as it might give me a ballpark starting point for my test.

Rick


2014-03-28 10:40 AM
in reply to: cartman1966

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Subject: RE: Trainer Road - moving from VP to Quarq

Doesn't matter.  Do the workout and see how it goes--see what kind of power you measure.  If you already have a sense of the effort involved in the workout, you'll be able to make a pretty educated guess as to how the 260 VP estimate correlates to the FTP you will measue with the Quark.  Or do a 'test' as your workout and see it that way.

2014-03-28 10:54 AM
in reply to: cartman1966


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Subject: RE: Trainer Road - moving from VP to Quarq

Yes, retest. I suspect your Quarq will differ from VP by over 30 watts, which is a lot. VP is great for training (precise), but accuracy is questionable.

2014-03-28 11:06 AM
in reply to: cartman1966

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Subject: RE: Trainer Road - moving from VP to Quarq
How close VP and your Quarq will be depends on a lot of things, and your trainer is one of them. For me, going from VP with a Cycleops Fluid 2 to actual power with Garmin Vectors, the numbers were pretty close. Other trainers may give different results.

I've also read that Quarqs have a bit of a break-in period, so that could influence it too.

Personally, I started with a re-test when I switched to an actual powermeter, if only for consistency.
2014-03-28 11:46 AM
in reply to: cartman1966

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Subject: RE: Trainer Road - moving from VP to Quarq

Do your next workout using Virtual Power on TrainerRoad, but capturing the information from you Quarq on your own head unit.  Then you can compare the two readings. 

Or retest but using Virtual Power -- there's no sense in chasing a number that you can't hit (or that's way too easy for you). 

FWIW, my Virtual Power was about 25W higher than my actual power.  TR gives you the option to reset all of your "bests".  If I hadn't, I wouldn't have gotten new bests for months!

2014-03-28 11:46 AM
in reply to: cartman1966

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Subject: RE: Trainer Road - moving from VP to Quarq

i ran TR with both virtual power and my garmin tracking power from my power meter for a week or so before i retested just to get an idea of how much i was off by.



2014-03-28 3:07 PM
in reply to: Clempson

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Subject: RE: Trainer Road - moving from VP to Quarq
Originally posted by Clempson

i ran TR with both virtual power and my garmin tracking power from my power meter for a week or so before i retested just to get an idea of how much i was off by.




Thanks! I'll try it this way and see what happens. Probably won't have the Quarq installed until next weekend now. Stupid work/life.
2014-03-28 6:07 PM
in reply to: cartman1966

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Subject: RE: Trainer Road - moving from VP to Quarq

Originally posted by cartman1966
Originally posted by Clempson

i ran TR with both virtual power and my garmin tracking power from my power meter for a week or so before i retested just to get an idea of how much i was off by.

Thanks! I'll try it this way and see what happens. Probably won't have the Quarq installed until next weekend now. Stupid work/life.

And that's what I was going to suggest.

2014-03-28 6:19 PM
in reply to: cartman1966

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Subject: RE: Trainer Road - moving from VP to Quarq
I'll be in the same boat in a few weeks. I actually plan to retest leaving VP set up on trainerroad while simultaneously getting a test value from my new powermeter on the head unit.

It isn't entirely necessary, but I'll always wonder what the difference between actual and virtual power is on my setup otherwise, and doing them at the same time will eliminate any training losses or gains I've had since my last retest.
2014-04-14 12:30 PM
in reply to: JZig

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Subject: RE: Trainer Road - moving from VP to Quarq
BUMP

Loving my new Quarq Riken. Been using TR as usual and collecting data form the Quarq. Overall, the power from Quarq is 30-35 watts lower than my virtual power. More importantly, the Quarq power is tracking the TR workouts exactly and looking at the data in Garmin Connect shows a graph that looks just like the completed ride in TR.

Cadence matches exactly, NP, IF and TSS are a little off from TR.

Probably the "hardest" thing for me so far is that I went form a 52/38 to a 50/34 and I am trying to find my sweet spot for long sustained efforts. can't wait to get out to Deer Pass Road, our local "hill" here in northern IL.
2014-04-14 1:37 PM
in reply to: cartman1966

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Subject: RE: Trainer Road - moving from VP to Quarq

Originally posted by cartman1966 BUMP Loving my new Quarq Riken. Been using TR as usual and collecting data form the Quarq. Overall, the power from Quarq is 30-35 watts lower than my virtual power. More importantly, the Quarq power is tracking the TR workouts exactly and looking at the data in Garmin Connect shows a graph that looks just like the completed ride in TR. Cadence matches exactly, NP, IF and TSS are a little off from TR. Probably the "hardest" thing for me so far is that I went form a 52/38 to a 50/34 and I am trying to find my sweet spot for long sustained efforts. can't wait to get out to Deer Pass Road, our local "hill" here in northern IL.

Those values are directly correlated to the FTP you entered in TR.  If you adjust your FTP from your VP number to your Quarq number, then the Quarq NP, IF, and TSS will be more in line with what it should be.



2014-04-14 4:06 PM
in reply to: cartman1966

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Subject: RE: Trainer Road - moving from VP to Quarq

Originally posted by cartman1966 BUMP Loving my new Quarq Riken. Been using TR as usual and collecting data form the Quarq. Overall, the power from Quarq is 30-35 watts lower than my virtual power. More importantly, the Quarq power is tracking the TR workouts exactly and looking at the data in Garmin Connect shows a graph that looks just like the completed ride in TR. Cadence matches exactly, NP, IF and TSS are a little off from TR. Probably the "hardest" thing for me so far is that I went form a 52/38 to a 50/34 and I am trying to find my sweet spot for long sustained efforts. can't wait to get out to Deer Pass Road, our local "hill" here in northern IL.
cartman1966, just out of curiosity, how do you setting up your trainer tension?  Do you perform a spin down check at the start (e.g. 20-0mph)? 

2014-04-14 6:49 PM
in reply to: cartman1966

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Subject: RE: Trainer Road - moving from VP to Quarq

Originally posted by cartman1966 BUMP Loving my new Quarq Riken. Been using TR as usual and collecting data form the Quarq. Overall, the power from Quarq is 30-35 watts lower than my virtual power. More importantly, the Quarq power is tracking the TR workouts exactly and looking at the data in Garmin Connect shows a graph that looks just like the completed ride in TR. Cadence matches exactly, NP, IF and TSS are a little off from TR. Probably the "hardest" thing for me so far is that I went form a 52/38 to a 50/34 and I am trying to find my sweet spot for long sustained efforts. can't wait to get out to Deer Pass Road, our local "hill" here in northern IL.

Will probably have to check that one out, but not Valley View Rd?

2014-04-15 7:01 AM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: Trainer Road - moving from VP to Quarq
@Donto - no I do not do the roll down test. Honestly cannot figure out how to do it, so I inflate to 105 psi and turn the tension knob on my KK trainer the same number of turns (I marked one of the handles for reference). I think it is pretty accurate ride to ride based on HR, cadence, gearing and RPE. I have almost 200 rides in on TR and can tell when it is not set right.

@brigby1 - Deer Pass Road is out near Marengo and parallels Rt.23 heading north. They just repaved it last year. You go up it twice during the Woodstock Dual in the fall. Good riding out that way.

I made my Garmin file public from the dual. Deer Pass is the far west road. Please, no comment on my poor bike leg!

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/379671616


2014-04-15 7:11 AM
in reply to: cartman1966

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Subject: RE: Trainer Road - moving from VP to Quarq
Originally posted by cartman1966

I have been a long time TR user, always using virtual power based on my KK trainer. Within the next week, I am having a Quarq Riken installed on my bike. I also started the 40k TT low volume plan in preparation for my early summer sprint and oly tris.

Current FTP is 260. When I start with the Quarq, do you recommend a retest? I realize there is a (big) difference between virtual power and power but am wondering if I should try the next scheduled workout and see how close I am. I might find out right away that the power is off :-0

What say you? Retest first? Or see what happens? I am leaning towards just trying it knowing a retest is in my near future (fun, fun, fun) as it might give me a ballpark starting point for my test.

Rick



Just for hoots, do a calibrate at the beginning of the session and a calibrate at the end. Look at the difference between the two. If over 10, there is an update to the firmware of the Q that gets the accuracy much greater. A few people with Rikens (and others Quarqs) have seen this.

2014-04-15 7:51 AM
in reply to: 0

Master
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Subject: RE: Trainer Road - moving from VP to Quarq

Originally posted by cartman1966 @Donto - no I do not do the roll down test. Honestly cannot figure out how to do it, so I inflate to 105 psi and turn the tension knob on my KK trainer the same number of turns (I marked one of the handles for reference). I think it is pretty accurate ride to ride based on HR, cadence, gearing and RPE. I have almost 200 rides in on TR and can tell when it is not set right. @brigby1 - Deer Pass Road is out near Marengo and parallels Rt.23 heading north. They just repaved it last year. You go up it twice during the Woodstock Dual in the fall. Good riding out that way. I made my Garmin file public from the dual. Deer Pass is the far west road. Please, no comment on my poor bike leg! http://connect.garmin.com/activity/379671616

Ok, I don't use TR, and just tighten until things feel about right. Calibrate the pm (zero it, actually) and go. Like you I have a feel for when something is a bit off. Powermeter is taking the readings, so roll-down doesn't have to be perfect. Have you retested, or still getting used to things?

And now I remember being on Deer Pass for that! It reaches the highest point around, but it's not the hardest. Got a few others in mind, but nothing is coming to mind that would take it from the south end of Valley View over in Bull Valley. Twice the power gives me about half the speed there.



Edited by brigby1 2014-04-15 7:51 AM


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