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2014-04-01 11:04 AM

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Subject: Maintaining Swim Fitness

So over the offseason I worked the heck out of my swim, probably more swimming in the last 4 months than the last year before that.  I have dropped around 15 second off of my base pace. Now that race season is fast approaching, I need to get back on the horse for the bike, and ramp up the run quality a bit.  How much swimming do I need to swim to maintain my swim fitness? I am worried that if I back off too much I will lose some of the progress I have made, but I only have so many hours in the day.



2014-04-01 11:11 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Maintaining Swim Fitness
Originally posted by dmiller5

So over the offseason I worked the heck out of my swim, probably more swimming in the last 4 months than the last year before that.  I have dropped around 15 second off of my base pace. Now that race season is fast approaching, I need to get back on the horse for the bike, and ramp up the run quality a bit.  How much swimming do I need to swim to maintain my swim fitness? I am worried that if I back off too much I will lose some of the progress I have made, but I only have so many hours in the day.





Depends on where you are now? The faster you are, more is required to maintain. Give us an idea of what you are holding Like 10 100's at what pace?
2014-04-01 11:12 AM
in reply to: mike761

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Subject: RE: Maintaining Swim Fitness

my base pace is about 1:20/100. This comes from a set of 10x100 w/ 10 sec rest. Confirmed with most of my main sets.

2014-04-01 11:13 AM
in reply to: mike761

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Subject: RE: Maintaining Swim Fitness

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by dmiller5

So over the offseason I worked the heck out of my swim, probably more swimming in the last 4 months than the last year before that.  I have dropped around 15 second off of my base pace. Now that race season is fast approaching, I need to get back on the horse for the bike, and ramp up the run quality a bit.  How much swimming do I need to swim to maintain my swim fitness? I am worried that if I back off too much I will lose some of the progress I have made, but I only have so many hours in the day.

Depends on where you are now? The faster you are, more is required to maintain. Give us an idea of what you are holding Like 10 100's at what pace?

Not true.  I know a guy who swam in college and swims maaaybe 2k a week now and still gets the fastest swim split in local tri's.  Granted the dude is a beast in the water.

2014-04-01 11:18 AM
in reply to: msteiner

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Subject: RE: Maintaining Swim Fitness
2-3 time a week to maintain
2014-04-01 11:20 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Maintaining Swim Fitness

Maybe I should add, I've been swimming about 4x/week. 1 day VO2 max, 1 day threshold, 1 day form focused, 1 day split set 1st half threshold, 2nd half VO2 max.



2014-04-01 11:21 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Maintaining Swim Fitness
6k a week should do it unless you're doing IM racing and then you'll see some drop off.
2014-04-01 11:36 AM
in reply to: msteiner

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Subject: RE: Maintaining Swim Fitness

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by dmiller5

So over the offseason I worked the heck out of my swim, probably more swimming in the last 4 months than the last year before that.  I have dropped around 15 second off of my base pace. Now that race season is fast approaching, I need to get back on the horse for the bike, and ramp up the run quality a bit.  How much swimming do I need to swim to maintain my swim fitness? I am worried that if I back off too much I will lose some of the progress I have made, but I only have so many hours in the day.

Depends on where you are now? The faster you are, more is required to maintain. Give us an idea of what you are holding Like 10 100's at what pace?

Not true.  I know a guy who swam in college and swims maaaybe 2k a week now and still gets the fastest swim split in local tri's.  Granted the dude is a beast in the water.

I think it's more a matter of how engrained your speed is.  That ex-college guy has so much time in the water that he can maintain some semblance of speed and technique with minimal time in the pool.  The OP doesn't have years of work making their current form and fitness an automatic thing.  I'd say you want to be in the water at least 3x/week to maintain what you've got.  Someone with a strong background can get away with 2x.

2014-04-01 11:55 AM
in reply to: dmiller5


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Subject: RE: Maintaining Swim Fitness
We are also comparing the Ex college guy to people who never swam at that level (for the most part). how would he compare to his peers that swam in college and have maintaned high volumes.
2014-04-01 12:11 PM
in reply to: msteiner

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Subject: RE: Maintaining Swim Fitness
Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by dmiller5

So over the offseason I worked the heck out of my swim, probably more swimming in the last 4 months than the last year before that.  I have dropped around 15 second off of my base pace. Now that race season is fast approaching, I need to get back on the horse for the bike, and ramp up the run quality a bit.  How much swimming do I need to swim to maintain my swim fitness? I am worried that if I back off too much I will lose some of the progress I have made, but I only have so many hours in the day.

Depends on where you are now? The faster you are, more is required to maintain. Give us an idea of what you are holding Like 10 100's at what pace?

Not true.  I know a guy who swam in college and swims maaaybe 2k a week now and still gets the fastest swim split in local tri's.  Granted the dude is a beast in the water.




Triathletes with a few exceptions are not "fast" swimmers. I have not swam competitively for 25 years with 15 years sitting around getting fat in there, and still get out of the water FOP swimming 3k yards a week.

I was looking for reference if he was down under 1 minute for hundreds the answer would be 10-12k per week 2-3 days/week. However since he is 1:20/100 I would suggest 4000 yards a week. Better to swim twice a week but you could do it in 1. Write down where you are now and check again in 3 to 4 weeks- you may have to add in some more yards.

If your swim fitness is good but your technique is not you will have a harder time maintaining your speed.
2014-04-01 12:13 PM
in reply to: mike761

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Subject: RE: Maintaining Swim Fitness

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by dmiller5

So over the offseason I worked the heck out of my swim, probably more swimming in the last 4 months than the last year before that.  I have dropped around 15 second off of my base pace. Now that race season is fast approaching, I need to get back on the horse for the bike, and ramp up the run quality a bit.  How much swimming do I need to swim to maintain my swim fitness? I am worried that if I back off too much I will lose some of the progress I have made, but I only have so many hours in the day.

Depends on where you are now? The faster you are, more is required to maintain. Give us an idea of what you are holding Like 10 100's at what pace?

Not true.  I know a guy who swam in college and swims maaaybe 2k a week now and still gets the fastest swim split in local tri's.  Granted the dude is a beast in the water.

Triathletes with a few exceptions are not "fast" swimmers. I have not swam competitively for 25 years with 15 years sitting around getting fat in there, and still get out of the water FOP swimming 3k yards a week. I was looking for reference if he was down under 1 minute for hundreds the answer would be 10-12k per week 2-3 days/week. However since he is 1:20/100 I would suggest 4000 yards a week. Better to swim twice a week but you could do it in 1. Write down where you are now and check again in 3 to 4 weeks- you may have to add in some more yards. If your swim fitness is good but your technique is not you will have a harder time maintaining your speed.

I was thinking more like twice a week, 6000-8000 yards and really getting after it



2014-04-01 12:17 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Maintaining Swim Fitness
Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by dmiller5

So over the offseason I worked the heck out of my swim, probably more swimming in the last 4 months than the last year before that.  I have dropped around 15 second off of my base pace. Now that race season is fast approaching, I need to get back on the horse for the bike, and ramp up the run quality a bit.  How much swimming do I need to swim to maintain my swim fitness? I am worried that if I back off too much I will lose some of the progress I have made, but I only have so many hours in the day.

Depends on where you are now? The faster you are, more is required to maintain. Give us an idea of what you are holding Like 10 100's at what pace?

Not true.  I know a guy who swam in college and swims maaaybe 2k a week now and still gets the fastest swim split in local tri's.  Granted the dude is a beast in the water.

Triathletes with a few exceptions are not "fast" swimmers. I have not swam competitively for 25 years with 15 years sitting around getting fat in there, and still get out of the water FOP swimming 3k yards a week. I was looking for reference if he was down under 1 minute for hundreds the answer would be 10-12k per week 2-3 days/week. However since he is 1:20/100 I would suggest 4000 yards a week. Better to swim twice a week but you could do it in 1. Write down where you are now and check again in 3 to 4 weeks- you may have to add in some more yards. If your swim fitness is good but your technique is not you will have a harder time maintaining your speed.

I was thinking more like twice a week, 6000-8000 yards and really getting after it




That should do it as long as you don't toast yourself ramping up on the bike and run. You could also alternate weeks a little, 4000 yards one week(give you more time on B & R) and 8000yards the next.
2014-04-01 10:49 PM
in reply to: mike761

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Subject: RE: Maintaining Swim Fitness
Dave - it is only an N+1,so obviously take it for what it is worth, but I did the same thing last year: 4x per week @ 4500 yards per got me to 1:21 on a 10x100 set like you describe (1:15 all-out 100s). 3x per week @ 4500 yards per during race season maintained that. This winter I dropped back to 2x per week @ 4500 yards per In order to focus on other things and I am currently maintaining 1:28 on 10x 100 w/:10 rest. Interesting thing is 1:28 ~1:29 is also my 300 effort, so it seems that actually what I have not maintained with 2x per week is that top-end punch; the sustained swimming is still ok - not AS good as it was, but much less fall-off. The good news is that coach says that will all come back when I shift back to 3x @ 4500y per in a few weeks. I'll let you know then how that works out.

On a side note I also found that when I backed down from 4x swimming to begin a run block, my running was better than ever. Seems swimming hard is a great way to build the engine without all the beating that running can put on you. Who knew?

2014-04-02 12:20 AM
in reply to: TankBoy

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Subject: RE: Maintaining Swim Fitness

You're going to drop a few seconds, Dave, but you'll still be a lot faster than you were last year.   Jr. is now in a run focus since track season has started.  He's backed down to 4 swims per week, from 8 or 9.  He still does 4500-6000 per swim and will likely lose a few seconds per 100 from swim race form.....but he's still going to be one of the first out of the water in any race he does.  In your case, you've gone from MOP to back of FOP for your A race......you won't lose that if you keep the intensity up during the swims you do.

Work your bike strength a bit......it'll come back fast.  A week in Az. riding in the mountains was all it took to get his good bike strength back.  Your fitness is likely much improved from your swim focus....build on it.

2014-04-02 12:22 AM
in reply to: TankBoy

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Subject: RE: Maintaining Swim Fitness

Originally posted by TankBoy Dave - it is only an N+1,so obviously take it for what it is worth, but I did the same thing last year: 4x per week @ 4500 yards per got me to 1:21 on a 10x100 set like you describe (1:15 all-out 100s). 3x per week @ 4500 yards per during race season maintained that. This winter I dropped back to 2x per week @ 4500 yards per In order to focus on other things and I am currently maintaining 1:28 on 10x 100 w/:10 rest. Interesting thing is 1:28 ~1:29 is also my 300 effort, so it seems that actually what I have not maintained with 2x per week is that top-end punch; the sustained swimming is still ok - not AS good as it was, but much less fall-off. The good news is that coach says that will all come back when I shift back to 3x @ 4500y per in a few weeks. I'll let you know then how that works out.

On a side note I also found that when I backed down from 4x swimming to begin a run block, my running was better than ever. Seems swimming hard is a great way to build the engine without all the beating that running can put on you. Who knew?

SHHHHHHHH!!!! 

2014-04-02 6:17 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Maintaining Swim Fitness
For me, swim times are impacted by my endurance and feel in the water. Two very different things.

Endurance is more dictated by my length and quality of workouts. Feel, which translates to speed early in an event is more a function of how often I swim.
I would cut out all the 'fluff' in my workouts. Drills, shorter warmup, cool down, kick sets.....The problem is saving 15 or 20min per session in not a huge time saver and it's hard to add a bike session by reducing 4x20min here and there.

I would not reduce to less than 3x per week or I lose feel. If I lose feel I will lose speed, speed determines what feet you can catch.

Unfortunately, I do not feel that swim fitness carries over to the other sports. I seem pretty programmed to specificity.




Edited by marcag 2014-04-02 6:20 AM


2014-04-02 6:50 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Maintaining Swim Fitness

Dave I swim 3x a week (best to spread out over the week) to maintain.  I swim a mix of intervals.  My logs are open. 

The thing is when starting to add the bike and run back into the mix I lose some speed.  I think that is normal, until the run and bike fitness come back.  Then the trick is trying to peek at all 3 disciplines on race day.

 

 

2014-04-02 11:12 AM
in reply to: mike761

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Subject: RE: Maintaining Swim Fitness
As a former competitive swimmer I know for me to build my base up from couch to 2k nonstop takes me4 2-3 weeks, I will make gains quick, and I swim primarily 10 x 100’s and hold a 1:20-1:30 and can get down to 1:15 and hold that with 2x’s a week and 2k-3k a day. I am a FOP swimmer, and I am content with that pace, I could improve on it, but my cycling needs far more attention. It’s mostly an n+1 thing and where you are and where you want to be. If you want to be the guy out of the water first or hit the1:00 range then you need to put that work in, but it reality, :10 a 100 on the swim is peanuts there are far more gains to be made on the run and bike.
2014-04-02 11:16 AM
in reply to: GotBackup

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Subject: RE: Maintaining Swim Fitness

Originally posted by GotBackup As a former competitive swimmer I know for me to build my base up from couch to 2k nonstop takes me4 2-3 weeks, I will make gains quick, and I swim primarily 10 x 100’s and hold a 1:20-1:30 and can get down to 1:15 and hold that with 2x’s a week and 2k-3k a day. I am a FOP swimmer, and I am content with that pace, I could improve on it, but my cycling needs far more attention. It’s mostly an n+1 thing and where you are and where you want to be. If you want to be the guy out of the water first or hit the1:00 range then you need to put that work in, but it reality, :10 a 100 on the swim is peanuts there are far more gains to be made on the run and bike.

10s/hundred is not peanuts when you are missing the overall podium by 4 seconds..........

2014-04-02 11:22 AM
in reply to: GotBackup

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Subject: RE: Maintaining Swim Fitness

Originally posted by GotBackup As a former competitive swimmer I know for me to build my base up from couch to 2k nonstop takes me4 2-3 weeks, I will make gains quick, and I swim primarily 10 x 100’s and hold a 1:20-1:30 and can get down to 1:15 and hold that with 2x’s a week and 2k-3k a day. I am a FOP swimmer, and I am content with that pace, I could improve on it, but my cycling needs far more attention. It’s mostly an n+1 thing and where you are and where you want to be. If you want to be the guy out of the water first or hit the1:00 range then you need to put that work in, but it reality, :10 a 100 on the swim is peanuts there are far more gains to be made on the run and bike.

It depends on what level you're at and what kind of racing you are doing and what distance your race is.  The days of the swim not being important to a podium finish are over in any race above a very local event.

2014-04-02 11:39 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Maintaining Swim Fitness
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by GotBackup As a former competitive swimmer I know for me to build my base up from couch to 2k nonstop takes me4 2-3 weeks, I will make gains quick, and I swim primarily 10 x 100’s and hold a 1:20-1:30 and can get down to 1:15 and hold that with 2x’s a week and 2k-3k a day. I am a FOP swimmer, and I am content with that pace, I could improve on it, but my cycling needs far more attention. It’s mostly an n+1 thing and where you are and where you want to be. If you want to be the guy out of the water first or hit the1:00 range then you need to put that work in, but it reality, :10 a 100 on the swim is peanuts there are far more gains to be made on the run and bike.

It depends on what level you're at and what kind of racing you are doing and what distance your race is.  The days of the swim not being important to a podium finish are over in any race above a very local event.



True, if your in a draft legal race you better be out of the water with anyone your trying to compete with.

For the majority of age groupers a 2-3 minutes in the swim will not mean too much. however it will if your looking for a podium spot in most events.



2014-04-02 11:53 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Maintaining Swim Fitness

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by GotBackup As a former competitive swimmer I know for me to build my base up from couch to 2k nonstop takes me4 2-3 weeks, I will make gains quick, and I swim primarily 10 x 100’s and hold a 1:20-1:30 and can get down to 1:15 and hold that with 2x’s a week and 2k-3k a day. I am a FOP swimmer, and I am content with that pace, I could improve on it, but my cycling needs far more attention. It’s mostly an n+1 thing and where you are and where you want to be. If you want to be the guy out of the water first or hit the1:00 range then you need to put that work in, but it reality, :10 a 100 on the swim is peanuts there are far more gains to be made on the run and bike.

It depends on what level you're at and what kind of racing you are doing and what distance your race is.  The days of the swim not being important to a podium finish are over in any race above a very local event.

Tell you what - even the very local events are getting dang speedy in the water!  Like 1:00/100 in a sprint - and that's the old folks!  Just crazy.

Big part of why I've been swimming more this year (and doing kick sets).    Really curious to see what effect it will have on my racing this season.

To the OP, thanks for asking this question.  I'm trying to "peak in all 3 for race day" and have also been wondering what to do with the swim while I work on the bike (which is just awful at the moment!), so this has been helpful.  I'm thinking about 3 x per week at around 2,500 per swim with one continuous race sim and two sessions with piles of 100's, but will have to see what the schedule looks like...

Matt

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