General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Swim Question! Rss Feed  
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2014-04-14 5:33 PM


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Subject: Swim Question!
Hi All,

Training for a sprint triathlon. I did a swim version of a "long run" today in the pool. I wanted to swim 1500 meters at an easy pace. I stopped halfway through just to check my time. I wasn't out of breath at all. I was shocked to see that my time was only a minute slower than my 750m triathlon time! What?! When I swim "fast" (for me), I am out of breath and really feel like I am putting in some effort. However, something must be happening to become inefficient, because the excertion isn't giving me a significantly better time.

I am more of a runner than a swimmer--when I want to run faster, I increase my turnover rate. When I am 'sprinting" in the pool I think I have a faster arm turnover rate (i.e., more strokes per lap). This is probably not a good thing, right?

Should I just be pulling harder? Any advice?

Thanks!


2014-04-14 5:37 PM
in reply to: itricorvallis

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Subject: RE: Swim Question!
1min over a 750m is significant and a lot of time... it s almost 9 sec by 100m difference...THAT IS HUGE

so what you experience is very normal.
2014-04-14 6:39 PM
in reply to: itricorvallis

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Subject: RE: Swim Question!
Faster swimming is usually a matter of improved technique making us more efficient in the water. As runners we tend to try and "push" harder thinking it will make us faster. It probably does the opposite!
2014-04-14 8:04 PM
in reply to: jonnyo

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Subject: RE: Swim Question!
Agreed... adding 30 sec to a 1500 is a bad day ... 2 min would have me going backwards.
2014-04-14 8:17 PM
in reply to: itricorvallis

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Subject: RE: Swim Question!

My all out sprint pace is a bit more than 30 seconds per 100m faster than my steady pace.  If I extrapolated that out to 1600m it would be 8 minutes faster, and....that's NOT going to happen because I can't hold the sprint pace that fast for more than 150m tops right now.  1 minute shaved off IS significant.  Good job.

Form is so important. There is a reason so many people say to slow down to get faster. Thrash and splash doesn't make for better times.

 

 

2014-04-14 8:22 PM
in reply to: itricorvallis

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Subject: RE: Swim Question!
My favorite swim quote, auth. unknown: "slow is smooth, smooth is fast"


2014-04-14 8:34 PM
in reply to: itricorvallis

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Subject: RE: Swim Question
I'm curious what your times were? My guess without knowing more about your swimming background, ability and training is off the bat your catch is weak. If you're going at a hard pace for your 750 distance vs your 1500 time and as you mentioned you up your pace, then you're just spinning your wheels. Sounds like the increased pace becomes your arms turning over at a faster rate but not translating to more speed.
2014-04-14 10:48 PM
in reply to: itricorvallis

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Subject: RE: Swim Question!
Originally posted by itricorvallis
when I want to run faster, I increase my turnover rate. When I am 'sprinting" in the pool I think I have a faster arm turnover rate (i.e., more strokes per lap). This is probably not a good thing, right? Should I just be pulling harder? Any advice?


Fast and efficient swimmers are fast for two reasons: they are moving more distance per stroke, and their stroke rate is higher.

If you are new at this, focus first at getting more distance per stroke. After you see lots of improvement with that, you can also increase your stroke rate.

Greg @ dsw
2014-04-14 11:44 PM
in reply to: DarkSpeedWorks

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Subject: RE: Swim Question!
Originally posted by DarkSpeedWorks

Originally posted by itricorvallis
when I want to run faster, I increase my turnover rate. When I am 'sprinting" in the pool I think I have a faster arm turnover rate (i.e., more strokes per lap). This is probably not a good thing, right? Should I just be pulling harder? Any advice?


Fast and efficient swimmers are fast for two reasons: they are moving more distance per stroke, and their stroke rate is higher.

If you are new at this, focus first at getting more distance per stroke. After you see lots of improvement with that, you can also increase your stroke rate.

Greg @ dsw



Agreed with this!
2014-04-15 12:16 AM
in reply to: itricorvallis

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Subject: RE: Swim Question!
Originally posted by itricorvallis

--when I want to run faster, I increase my turnover rate. When I am 'sprinting" in the pool I think I have a faster arm turnover rate (i.e., more strokes per lap). This is probably not a good thing, right?



When you run faster, I doubt you shorten your stride, when you up your cadence.

More strokes per lap means your stroke length becomes shorter, this is very inefficient, while you may be faster, you're not getting faster efficiently.
2014-04-16 12:47 PM
in reply to: simpsonbo

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Subject: RE: Swim Question!
Originally posted by simpsonbo
Agreed... adding 30 sec to a 1500 is a bad day ... 2 min would have me going backwards.
Hahaha


2014-04-16 1:07 PM
in reply to: jgs733


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Subject: RE: Swim Question!
Originally posted by jgs733

My favorite swim quote, auth. unknown: "slow is smooth, smooth is fast"

It actually isn't a swim quote. It started as a military saying in relation to loading the guns on a shooting range.

If you really want to go back to the meaning it would be Festina Lente which translates to "make haste, slowly" or "more haste, less speed". Which goes back to Augustus. It is often symbolized as an anchor surrounded by a dolphin.
2014-04-18 1:58 PM
in reply to: itricorvallis


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Subject: RE: Swim Question!
Thanks, all. I talked to a swimmer friend of mine and he essentially said the same thing...a minute is a lot of time. Didn't seem like much-- I swim a 750 meter in 15 minutes, so I am usually relegated to the slow lanes in pool triathlons! : )

It seems like a potential strategy for me to not get into what someone here said "thrash and splash" mode--to get 1 minute faster in the tri and be totally exhausted, and go more at a steady pace for 16 minutes and have more energy for the bike and run.

But--I will not stop trying to swim with more efficient strokes--of all the disciplines, I always feel good after a swim--not so much after a grueling bike ride!

Now...to get my guts up to try an open swim...sigh....
2014-04-18 10:04 PM
in reply to: itricorvallis

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Subject: RE: Swim Question!
Swimmers don't do a long run... even the distance guys do repeats... usually less than 800 and mostly 50s, 100s and 200s with some long stuff mixed in ...

That said I remember walking in one morning to a whiteboard

6x1500 @ 20:00

Coach is like "Its only 1 set today"
2014-04-18 10:04 PM
in reply to: itricorvallis

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Subject: RE: Swim Question!
It may also be a matter of where your strength in swimming lies---endurance or speed/strength. Some people excel at long, steady efforts but struggle to "pick up the pace" for sprints; others are great at shorter events, but struggle with the endurance needed to maintain a reasonable speed over the long distance. I've been a distance runner for years and swimming since childhood. Endurance has always come much more naturally than speed, for both sports. It's relatively easy for me to swim 1500m at 1:43/1:44/100m, but 1:30 for a 100m swim feels very hard. Most people with 1500m times in the 25 minute range, like me (most recent TT was 25:30), could swim 100m considerably faster than that. I've always felt that my stroke (and running stride) feels much more "natural" when doing longer distances.

Likewise, in HS I swam butterfly as well as distances-- I wasn't a great sprinter, got my butt kicked in 50m races (mainly by bigger, more muscular girls), but could hold my own in the 100m, and did well in the 200m. Some of the better sprinters on our team could barely finish a 200m fly race. It may be partly a matter of stroke efficiency, especially for relative beginners, but also of your muscle fiber type, cardio fitness relative to strength/power, and other physical variables.
2014-04-19 6:03 AM
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Subject: RE: Swim Question!


Originally posted by jgs733

My favorite swim quote, auth. unknown: "slow is smooth, smooth is fast"


It actually isn't a swim quote. It started as a military saying in relation to loading the guns on a shooting range.

If you really want to go back to the meaning it would be Festina Lente which translates to "make haste, slowly" or "more haste, less speed". Which goes back to Augustus. It is often symbolized as an anchor surrounded by a dolphin.



I like it even more now! Good tidbit

Edited by jgs733 2014-04-19 6:05 AM


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