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2014-04-18 12:36 PM

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Subject: Run Workouts Per Week?

How often does everyone do a run workout in the average week?

I'm running 6 days a week right now, and am doing 1 workout, 1 tempo run, and the long run on three of those days.  The other three runs are just normal-paced ones.

Is this a good way to do it? Should I be doing more workouts or tempo runs? Training mainly for Olympic Distance races with one HIM.



2014-04-18 12:46 PM
in reply to: C_Hassard

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Subject: RE: Run Workouts Per Week?
How many bike workouts and swim workouts are you getting in?

I am training for an Ironman and run 5 days a week. One of those days is a long run day that I break into two sessions due to time constraints. One run is a run off the bike.

In addition to the run days, I ride 3 days a week and swim 3 days a week.
2014-04-18 12:52 PM
in reply to: kmac1346

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Subject: RE: Run Workouts Per Week?

I swim in the summer, fall, and winter, so only swim 3 days per week right now just to maintain fitness.  Would be doing 7 days per week in season.

Bike 5 days per week.  three 1-hour workouts on the trainer, one 2h30m ride on the trainer, and one long outside ride on the weekends.

Run everyday except Tuesday, and bike Tu-We-Th-Sa-Su

2014-04-18 12:57 PM
in reply to: C_Hassard


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Subject: RE: Run Workouts Per Week?

It really depends on your priorities in run improvement/performance. 

 

If you want to get as good as possible at running - run more, as much as you can, barring injury. Pure runners can even run 2 times a day if they want to further increase running volume.

 

As a triathlete AGer that typically won't have the time to do all that running without costing on the bike/swim, you have to do a cost-benefit to see where your time-losing weaknesses are and give those priority. 

 

But typically 3-4 run workouts a week is pretty normal for a balanced triathlete. 

2014-04-18 1:44 PM
in reply to: C_Hassard

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Subject: RE: Run Workouts Per Week?
Originally posted by C_Hassard

How often does everyone do a run workout in the average week?

I'm running 6 days a week right now, and am doing 1 workout, 1 tempo run, and the long run on three of those days.  The other three runs are just normal-paced ones.

Is this a good way to do it? Should I be doing more workouts or tempo runs? Training mainly for Olympic Distance races with one HIM.





If you follow BarryP, which many successful triathletes do, 6x per week is ideal. Take your weekly mileage and divide it by 10. Call that "a unit"
1 long run of 3 units, 2 mid runs of 2 units, 3 short runs of 1 unit
Ideally do tempo or intervals as the mid runs.

A very successful triathlete on this board, IM winner, multiple Kona qualifier told me about 35% of training time on the run was about right.

I personally find 5x ok, 6x ideal. Frequency on the run is a good thing.


2014-04-18 1:55 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Run Workouts Per Week?

If you follow BarryP, which many successful triathletes do, 6x per week is ideal. Take your weekly mileage and divide it by 10. Call that "a unit" 1 long run of 3 units, 2 mid runs of 2 units, 3 short runs of 1 unit Ideally do tempo or intervals as the mid runs. A very successful triathlete on this board, IM winner, multiple Kona qualifier told me about 35% of training time on the run was about right. I personally find 5x ok, 6x ideal. Frequency on the run is a good thing.

So should the track workouts be on the short run days? 3 days of speed work, 2 mid runs (1 tempo?) and then the long run?



2014-04-18 1:59 PM
in reply to: C_Hassard

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Subject: RE: Run Workouts Per Week?
I'm running 4 times a week. Since I'm not training for any long distance races this summer, I am running Tuesday-Friday at lunch. When I am in Marathon training mode, I would still do 4 runs a week, but I would do 3 during the week & one long one on Sunday.

My goal right now is to build endurance & get faster. I kind of flattened out on how fast I was able to run, so I am going back to basics, focusing on the shorter runs & hitting them a lot harder. It's working too as I have been able to shave a minute off my overall pace on runs at a 10K distance or less.
2014-04-18 2:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Run Workouts Per Week?
Originally posted by C_Hassard

If you follow BarryP, which many successful triathletes do, 6x per week is ideal. Take your weekly mileage and divide it by 10. Call that "a unit" 1 long run of 3 units, 2 mid runs of 2 units, 3 short runs of 1 unit Ideally do tempo or intervals as the mid runs. A very successful triathlete on this board, IM winner, multiple Kona qualifier told me about 35% of training time on the run was about right. I personally find 5x ok, 6x ideal. Frequency on the run is a good thing.

So should the track workouts be on the short run days? 3 days of speed work, 2 mid runs (1 tempo?) and then the long run?




The tempo and interval workouts are done on the medium days.

What I like :
If I can run 6 times per week I would do exactly that. 3 easy/short runs, 2 medium(1 interval, 1 tempo) and a long run
If I can only run 5 times per week, I would do the tempo running as part of the long run. Something like 45' aerobic + 25' Tempo + 20' aerobic

Sometimes this changes due to other factors. For example I am currently running injured so no speed work.



Edited by marcag 2014-04-18 2:09 PM
2014-04-18 2:46 PM
in reply to: C_Hassard

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Subject: RE: Run Workouts Per Week?
Originally posted by C_Hassard

How often does everyone do a run workout in the average week?

I'm running 6 days a week right now, and am doing 1 workout, 1 tempo run, and the long run on three of those days.  The other three runs are just normal-paced ones.

Is this a good way to do it? Should I be doing more workouts or tempo runs? Training mainly for Olympic Distance races with one HIM.




Those 3 normal paced runs are at what effort? I would make those very easy runs zone 1 or low low zone 2
2014-04-18 2:52 PM
in reply to: bcagle25

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Subject: RE: Run Workouts Per Week?

Mon - Tempo run 

Wed - Intervals

Sat - easy run with strides

Sun - long run

2014-04-18 3:56 PM
in reply to: bcagle25

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Subject: RE: Run Workouts Per Week?

Originally posted by bcagle25
Originally posted by C_Hassard

How often does everyone do a run workout in the average week?

I'm running 6 days a week right now, and am doing 1 workout, 1 tempo run, and the long run on three of those days.  The other three runs are just normal-paced ones.

Is this a good way to do it? Should I be doing more workouts or tempo runs? Training mainly for Olympic Distance races with one HIM.

Those 3 normal paced runs are at what effort? I would make those very easy runs zone 1 or low low zone 2

Yup, very easy paced. Low zone 2.

 



2014-04-18 4:07 PM
in reply to: C_Hassard


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Subject: RE: Run Workouts Per Week?
Originally posted by C_Hassard

Originally posted by bcagle25
Originally posted by C_Hassard

How often does everyone do a run workout in the average week?

I'm running 6 days a week right now, and am doing 1 workout, 1 tempo run, and the long run on three of those days.  The other three runs are just normal-paced ones.

Is this a good way to do it? Should I be doing more workouts or tempo runs? Training mainly for Olympic Distance races with one HIM.

Those 3 normal paced runs are at what effort? I would make those very easy runs zone 1 or low low zone 2

Yup, very easy paced. Low zone 2.

 




I do 7 days a week, but one day is purely a short recovery run. Lately, I've been doing 1 long run, one tempo or threshold effort, and one shorter interval workout. My training volume is increasing, and I get good intensity on the bike and swim, so I am actually dropping the intervals because of my concerns about durability.

It's really about what you can handle, and it should evolve at different points during your training. Build base, continue to add volume and intensity (not at the same time!!), add race specificity, taper, race, recover then assess your next goal and start again. I tend to try to periodize using 3 weeks of increasing effort, and 1 week of recovery.
2014-04-18 4:21 PM
in reply to: ImSore

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Subject: RE: Run Workouts Per Week?
Originally posted by ImSore

Originally posted by C_Hassard

Originally posted by bcagle25
Originally posted by C_Hassard

How often does everyone do a run workout in the average week?

I'm running 6 days a week right now, and am doing 1 workout, 1 tempo run, and the long run on three of those days.  The other three runs are just normal-paced ones.

Is this a good way to do it? Should I be doing more workouts or tempo runs? Training mainly for Olympic Distance races with one HIM.

Those 3 normal paced runs are at what effort? I would make those very easy runs zone 1 or low low zone 2

Yup, very easy paced. Low zone 2.

 




I do 7 days a week, but one day is purely a short recovery run. Lately, I've been doing 1 long run, one tempo or threshold effort, and one shorter interval workout. My training volume is increasing, and I get good intensity on the bike and swim, so I am actually dropping the intervals because of my concerns about durability.

It's really about what you can handle, and it should evolve at different points during your training. Build base, continue to add volume and intensity (not at the same time!!), add race specificity, taper, race, recover then assess your next goal and start again. I tend to try to periodize using 3 weeks of increasing effort, and 1 week of recovery.


I have never understood the term "recovery run" because you are still applying a stress into your body so you are not really recovering as much as your are getting in maintenance, active recovery would be a better term, but I don't feel that applies to running as much as it does to a non-weight bearing sport, or other modalities of keeping the body going.

But yes go easy, really easy on the easy days so you can go hard on the really hard days. Lots of ways to assess "easy" on those easy runs. +2 minutes of your race effort pace, % of HR, etc.

Here is some lit:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3912323/
2014-04-18 5:12 PM
in reply to: bcagle25


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Subject: RE: Run Workouts Per Week?
Originally posted by bcagle25

Originally posted by ImSore

Originally posted by C_Hassard

Originally posted by bcagle25
Originally posted by C_Hassard

How often does everyone do a run workout in the average week?

I'm running 6 days a week right now, and am doing 1 workout, 1 tempo run, and the long run on three of those days.  The other three runs are just normal-paced ones.

Is this a good way to do it? Should I be doing more workouts or tempo runs? Training mainly for Olympic Distance races with one HIM.

Those 3 normal paced runs are at what effort? I would make those very easy runs zone 1 or low low zone 2

Yup, very easy paced. Low zone 2.

 




I do 7 days a week, but one day is purely a short recovery run. Lately, I've been doing 1 long run, one tempo or threshold effort, and one shorter interval workout. My training volume is increasing, and I get good intensity on the bike and swim, so I am actually dropping the intervals because of my concerns about durability.

It's really about what you can handle, and it should evolve at different points during your training. Build base, continue to add volume and intensity (not at the same time!!), add race specificity, taper, race, recover then assess your next goal and start again. I tend to try to periodize using 3 weeks of increasing effort, and 1 week of recovery.


I have never understood the term "recovery run" because you are still applying a stress into your body so you are not really recovering as much as your are getting in maintenance, active recovery would be a better term, but I don't feel that applies to running as much as it does to a non-weight bearing sport, or other modalities of keeping the body going.

But yes go easy, really easy on the easy days so you can go hard on the really hard days. Lots of ways to assess "easy" on those easy runs. +2 minutes of your race effort pace, % of HR, etc.

Here is some lit:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3912323/


Instead of thinking of it as a run you do to recover, think of it as a run you do while recovering. As for the benefit, nothing really concrete, but I feel better afterwards, it gives me an indication of how beat up I actually am, and if nothing else, its a few more maintenance miles that are unlikely to negatively impact my upcoming training.
2014-04-18 6:02 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Run Workouts Per Week?
Originally posted by ImSore
Instead of thinking of it as a run you do to recover, think of it as a run you do while recovering. As for the benefit, nothing really concrete, but I feel better afterwards, it gives me an indication of how beat up I actually am, and if nothing else, its a few more maintenance miles that are unlikely to negatively impact my upcoming training.


The benefit of the easy recovery runs comes from loosening the muscles and joints and promoting blood flow to the worked areas. As long as you do them easy enough.

For example- right now I'm only run-training for a marathon, and I'm following a pretty intense marathon program. Yesterday I did a tough workout, and while some other plans would have me resting today, I did a 10K recovery run. My legs felt stiff and heavy when I started but looser and better when I finished. I'm noticing this a lot with the hard workouts in this program- I may not feel like a run the next day, but after I do it I definitely feel better. And by the next day after I'm ready to work hard again.

One of the biggest mistakes people make when doing a run program is that they do their recovery and/or easy runs too hard. Then they get less benefit out of the hard ones.

The BarryP plan works well for 6 days/week running with one long run, two midweek runs that have some intensity portions (tempo and/or intervals), and three easy or recovery runs. My current marathon plan (Hanson) actually looks pretty similar, but the short runs aren't as short and the medium runs aren't as long as the 1-2-3 ratio.

I'm not experienced enough at triathlon to know exactly how to apply this to multi-sport training (so far my triathlon training has been mostly easy workouts for volume), but you can definitely get this kind of recovery benefit by mixing up the intensities of the different sports.

Edited by jennifer_runs 2014-04-18 6:04 PM
2014-04-18 6:25 PM
in reply to: jennifer_runs

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Subject: RE: Run Workouts Per Week?
I try to run 6x/week, but it typically is 5x which still seems to work

Mon - Mid length run, swim
Tues - 2 spin classes with short run in-between
Wed - Mid length run, swim
Thurs - 2 spin classes with short run in between
Friday - Long Run
Saturday- long bike with (sometimes) a short run after
Sunday - Off


2014-04-18 9:30 PM
in reply to: runspingirl

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Subject: RE: Run Workouts Per Week?
Usually 4 runs a week when tri training, 5-6 if doing a run focus for a longer race (usually half-marathon). My body just needs a day or two of break from running. For tri training, 5 might be better, but it just doesn't fit in with the timing of the rest of my workouts, work hours, and my need for recovery, at least when I'm working full-time during the school year. I don't feel "right" running less than 4 days a week; would not do it unless taking a break from training, getting over an illness or injury, or on vacation somewhere where running more often wasn't convenient (such as on a bike tour!)
2014-04-19 10:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Run Workouts Per Week?

Originally posted by jennifer_runs
Originally posted by ImSore Instead of thinking of it as a run you do to recover, think of it as a run you do while recovering. As for the benefit, nothing really concrete, but I feel better afterwards, it gives me an indication of how beat up I actually am, and if nothing else, its a few more maintenance miles that are unlikely to negatively impact my upcoming training.
The benefit of the easy recovery runs comes from loosening the muscles and joints and promoting blood flow to the worked areas. As long as you do them easy enough.

For example- right now I'm only run-training for a marathon, and I'm following a pretty intense marathon program. Yesterday I did a tough workout, and while some other plans would have me resting today, I did a 10K recovery run. My legs felt stiff and heavy when I started but looser and better when I finished. I'm noticing this a lot with the hard workouts in this program- I may not feel like a run the next day, but after I do it I definitely feel better. And by the next day after I'm ready to work hard again.

One of the biggest mistakes people make when doing a run program is that they do their recovery and/or easy runs too hard. Then they get less benefit out of the hard ones.

The BarryP plan works well for 6 days/week running with one long run, two midweek runs that have some intensity portions (tempo and/or intervals), and three easy or recovery runs. My current marathon plan (Hanson) actually looks pretty similar, but the short runs aren't as short and the medium runs aren't as long as the 1-2-3 ratio.

I'm not experienced enough at triathlon to know exactly how to apply this to multi-sport training (so far my triathlon training has been mostly easy workouts for volume), but you can definitely get this kind of recovery benefit by mixing up the intensities of the different sports.

Recovery runs or easy runs? The terms are used interchangeably by quite a few, but really shouldn't be. Easy runs are done at a rather easy to maintain pace. These are to help get in additional aerobic conditioning and time on feet to help build up more impact resistance. And to do so without adding a significant amount of stress at one time. The BarryP 1 unit runs are like this. A recovery run is just to loosen things up, get some blood flowing, to aid in the recovery process. These should be done at a really easy pace and be quite short. It's basically not much more than a warm-up right into a cool-down. A difference in the recovery run is that there isn't really enough being done towards aerobic conditioning to add in stress there. 

Now, it is quite possible that one can feel some recovery like benefits from doing an easy run as was described. Another benefit of doing easy runs, but do know that additional stress is being put applied when done right, though it may not really *feel* like it at the time. And it is possible to actually feel better after than before. Such as with that 10k example. I've experienced this many times myself. I've felt better after a 10k or so easy run than before, but also know that I was working  at enough of an effort level to be stimulating additional aerobic adaptations even though that effort level was rather easy. A recovery run does not really have this last part. A rather large part recreational runners are not developed far enough to have a run truly be a recovery. Running is just too demanding on the body in that regard. The other two sports might offer more towards a true recovery effort for a triathlete.

And I think this was known, and maybe not phrased as such, but while the hard runs most certainly do matter, they are not the entirety of the run program. It's not just accomplishing one hard run and then getting ready for the next, but working the all aspects in accordance to one's needs. One should certainly be ready to go for the hard workouts as they must be executed up where intended in order to have the desired benefit, but the surrounding easier running most certainly plays a notable part. That very well could be what was intended, but some of the phrasing could well lead some into the notion that one should really feel a workout in order for it to matter. And for running that won't be the case in a number of them, unlike in swimming & cycling. I don't mean to sound nit-picky on this part, but there are plenty who come on here wondering why they only have something like one "real" run of 10 miles then a bunch of 3-5 mile "recovery" runs the rest of the week.



Edited by brigby1 2014-04-19 10:59 AM
2014-04-19 11:16 AM
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Subject: RE: Run Workouts Per Week?
Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by jennifer_runs
Originally posted by ImSore Instead of thinking of it as a run you do to recover, think of it as a run you do while recovering. As for the benefit, nothing really concrete, but I feel better afterwards, it gives me an indication of how beat up I actually am, and if nothing else, its a few more maintenance miles that are unlikely to negatively impact my upcoming training.
The benefit of the easy recovery runs comes from loosening the muscles and joints and promoting blood flow to the worked areas. As long as you do them easy enough.

For example- right now I'm only run-training for a marathon, and I'm following a pretty intense marathon program. Yesterday I did a tough workout, and while some other plans would have me resting today, I did a 10K recovery run. My legs felt stiff and heavy when I started but looser and better when I finished. I'm noticing this a lot with the hard workouts in this program- I may not feel like a run the next day, but after I do it I definitely feel better. And by the next day after I'm ready to work hard again.

One of the biggest mistakes people make when doing a run program is that they do their recovery and/or easy runs too hard. Then they get less benefit out of the hard ones.

The BarryP plan works well for 6 days/week running with one long run, two midweek runs that have some intensity portions (tempo and/or intervals), and three easy or recovery runs. My current marathon plan (Hanson) actually looks pretty similar, but the short runs aren't as short and the medium runs aren't as long as the 1-2-3 ratio.

I'm not experienced enough at triathlon to know exactly how to apply this to multi-sport training (so far my triathlon training has been mostly easy workouts for volume), but you can definitely get this kind of recovery benefit by mixing up the intensities of the different sports.

Recovery runs or easy runs? The terms are used interchangeably by quite a few, but really shouldn't be. Easy runs are done at a rather easy to maintain pace. These are to help get in additional aerobic conditioning and time on feet to help build up more impact resistance. And to do so without adding a significant amount of stress at one time. The BarryP 1 unit runs are like this. A recovery run is just to loosen things up, get some blood flowing, to aid in the recovery process. These should be done at a really easy pace and be quite short. It's basically not much more than a warm-up right into a cool-down. A difference in the recovery run is that there isn't really enough being done towards aerobic conditioning to add in stress there. 

Now, it is quite possible that one can feel some recovery like benefits from doing an easy run as was described. Another benefit of doing easy runs, but do know that additional stress is being put applied when done right, though it may not really *feel* like it at the time. And it is possible to actually feel better after than before. Such as with that 10k example. I've experienced this many times myself. I've felt better after a 10k or so easy run than before, but also know that I was working  at enough of an effort level to be stimulating additional aerobic adaptations even though that effort level was rather easy. A recovery run does not really have this last part. A rather large part recreational runners are not developed far enough to have a run truly be a recovery. Running is just too demanding on the body in that regard. The other two sports might offer more towards a true recovery effort for a triathlete.

And I think this was known, and maybe not phrased as such, but while the hard runs most certainly do matter, they are not the entirety of the run program. It's not just accomplishing one hard run and then getting ready for the next, but working the all aspects in accordance to one's needs. One should certainly be ready to go for the hard workouts as they must be executed up where intended in order to have the desired benefit, but the surrounding easier running most certainly plays a notable part. That very well could be what was intended, but some of the phrasing could well lead some into the notion that one should really feel a workout in order for it to matter. And for running that won't be the case in a number of them, unlike in swimming & cycling. I don't mean to sound nit-picky on this part, but there are plenty who come on here wondering why they only have something like one "real" run of 10 miles then a bunch of 3-5 mile "recovery" runs the rest of the week.




True- I shouldn't have used the words interchangeably or made it look that way. While all recovery runs should be easy-paced, not all easy runs are recovery runs. And you did describe the hard vs easy principle well. Easy runs DO have a purpose well beyond recovery runs.

Edited by jennifer_runs 2014-04-19 11:24 AM
2014-04-19 11:39 AM
in reply to: jennifer_runs

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Subject: RE: Run Workouts Per Week?
I do 2 runs a week. I come from a running background and so I try to focus more on the swim and bike. I do one long run and one stress run.
2014-04-19 12:47 PM
in reply to: jennifer_runs

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Subject: RE: Run Workouts Per Week?
There's a bunch of good advice in this thread already.

I would always favor increasing run frequency and volume before increasing the intensity. And even more so if this is mixed in with tri training. It is *very* unlikely that your run performance in a tri will be held back by not doing enough high intensity runs. If you're tri training, I'd recommend to focus your high intensity work on the swim/bike, and for the running just try to squeeze in as many runs as you can after the s/b workouts. It's time-efficient, and it can help to make you quite confident about running after the other 2 legs.

I'll echo the fact that there's a difference between 'easy' and 'recovery' runs. And it took me a long while to figure that out. This past Tuesday I did my first run after last weekend's marathon, and it was a 2.x mile jog with my wife, at 4:00/mile slower than marathon pace. We're talking really easy. At the start, every step hurt, but by the end my legs were feeling rather better than when they started. A couple of days later and I was doing easy runs, now at around 1:00/mile slower than marathon pace. Very different animal.


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