General Discussion Triathlon Talk » I can't go slow Rss Feed  
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2014-05-23 3:05 PM

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Subject: I can't go slow
Don't get me wrong, by no means do I consider myself fast in any of the three disciplines in the sport of Triathlon.

But I do have a real hard time training slow (relative to me). Especially as slow as my coach tells me I need to go in my "long" days.

Because I'm not that fast (a mid pack in each discipline) going slow is, well, really slow. Especially when I'm trying to train by heart rate. Find myself always pushing it.

Example. Tomorrow I have a 3 hour ride and i'm supposed to keep my heart rate lower than 133 which for me is a low zone 2. That's a painfully slow 14 mph average when I factor in all of the long hills in the area. It's barely spinning. Feels like i'm going backwards.

Does anyone else have this problem (if you can call it that)?


2014-05-23 3:10 PM
in reply to: dswezey


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Subject: RE: I can't go slow

This happens a fair amount when people start off on new training plans.

Most common reasons why:

1. Zones are set incorrectly - often there's a rapid rate of improvement in the first few weeks due to VO2max related rapid gains, which unfortunately, also plateau quickly. 

2. Insufficient volume. Commonly occurs when the front end of a program is correctly lower than the average training load, so the athlete thinks is misinterpreting their fatigue level at the low training volume break-in phase for the amount of fatigue they'll get at peak load. 

If your zones are set correctly, the gradual increase in training volume will usually banish all sense of going too fast during your workouts, even on the easy days. (If you're hitting peak training volume and you're still feeling this way, you need to crank up the training load.)

2014-05-23 6:12 PM
in reply to: yazmaster

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Subject: RE: I can't go slow
Originally posted by yazmaster

This happens a fair amount when people start off on new training plans.

Most common reasons why:

1. Zones are set incorrectly - often there's a rapid rate of improvement in the first few weeks due to VO2max related rapid gains, which unfortunately, also plateau quickly. 

2. Insufficient volume. Commonly occurs when the front end of a program is correctly lower than the average training load, so the athlete thinks is misinterpreting their fatigue level at the low training volume break-in phase for the amount of fatigue they'll get at peak load. 

If your zones are set correctly, the gradual increase in training volume will usually banish all sense of going too fast during your workouts, even on the easy days. (If you're hitting peak training volume and you're still feeling this way, you need to crank up the training load.)




^ Yup! I recommend you do a bike LTHR field test and see if your zones are correct.
2014-05-23 6:22 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: I can't go slow

Yes you can.

2014-05-23 7:51 PM
in reply to: dswezey

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Subject: RE: I can't go slow
Sounds like your zones are off. Zone 2 should feel like work.

My zone 2 is also in the 130's, and 133 bpm (for me) is a moderate effort on the bike. If I just waffle about my HR stays under 120.
2014-05-23 7:54 PM
in reply to: pnwdan

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Subject: RE: I can't go slow

Originally posted by pnwdan Sounds like your zones are off. Zone 2 should feel like work. My zone 2 is also in the 130's, and 133 bpm (for me) is a moderate effort on the bike. If I just waffle about my HR stays under 120.

Do you have different HR zones for swim, bike, and run? (I am not talking about you specifically, but the collective "you")  There can be huge variances between the different disciplines.



2014-05-24 9:03 AM
in reply to: dswezey

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Subject: RE: I can't go slow
I have had the exact same issues. My Z2 tops out at about 148 (after my LT test), and I kept most of my long bikes in low-mid z2 . . . about 14 mph. As aggravating as it was, it paid HUGE dividends during my HIM in September, especially when I got to the run. If you know your zones are correct, my advice would be to just do your best to train slow on those days. It's tough, but worth it. My 2 cents.
2014-05-24 1:13 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: I can't go slow
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by pnwdan Sounds like your zones are off. Zone 2 should feel like work. My zone 2 is also in the 130's, and 133 bpm (for me) is a moderate effort on the bike. If I just waffle about my HR stays under 120.

Do you have different HR zones for swim, bike, and run? (I am not talking about you specifically, but the collective "you")  There can be huge variances between the different disciplines.


I have different zones for bike and run. In general the run zones for me are slightly higher than the bike ones. Joel Friel has some good zone info if you google it. I got my run zones from him and my bike zones from sufferfest.
2014-05-24 4:16 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: I can't go slow
Originally posted by Left Brain

Yes you can.




You took the words from me......
2014-05-25 7:24 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: I can't go slow
I haven't done a LTHR test for swimming but between the bike and the run my LT is about 10 beats a minute. It does not sound like a lot but over the course of a 3 hour bike ride (to me) it feels a lot different. On the run my LT is 158 on the bike its about 147. The last couple of long bike rides I've done have been: 56 miles, 3:05-10 time, 17.6-18 average speed, average HR 126, cadence 80-86. I don't know if those numbers are poor, ok, great or hey look what just happened.

2014-05-25 8:44 AM
in reply to: Dub_Z

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Subject: RE: I can't go slow
Originally posted by Dub_Z

I haven't done a LTHR test for swimming but between the bike and the run my LT is about 10 beats a minute. It does not sound like a lot but over the course of a 3 hour bike ride (to me) it feels a lot different. On the run my LT is 158 on the bike its about 147. The last couple of long bike rides I've done have been: 56 miles, 3:05-10 time, 17.6-18 average speed, average HR 126, cadence 80-86. I don't know if those numbers are poor, ok, great or hey look what just happened.



Your cadence is probably too low, but those numbers seem fine. Your long rides should probably be more of a nice even tempo kinda thing, but please wait for a real triathlete to confirm that before mixing up your workout. I just know that we seem to be at similar bike speed/distances, but I average 85-95rpm and HR is more like 140 on my long rides. My LTs are about 10 higher than yours, though.


2014-05-25 8:49 AM
in reply to: Danno77

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Subject: RE: I can't go slow

I found it frustrating how slow I need to go to begin with (and how quickly that resets every time I take  few months off).

It's better for you in the long run and well worth persevering with if you want to go beyond sprint distance.  For me there are two main benefits;

1) the training load I can handle in a week is much better

2) the risk of injury is greatly reduced.

I prefer long distance stuff so I stuck it out but if you prefer training hard then stick to the shorter distances of sprint and olympic.  Some people think that the longer the distance, the greater the achievement.  Not me.  I don't have what it takes to race short and hard. I do long distances because it's easier for me!

2014-05-25 9:54 AM
in reply to: Dan-L

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Subject: RE: I can't go slow

You'll learn how to once you run too fast for a couple seasons.  Looking back, it's easy NOW for me to see where my training load just climbed too much (and with clearly a lot of intensity) and some piece of me decided to just break.  That's one way to learn to go slower, but not what I'd wish for anyone!    

I certainly have the same issue, as I like to go fast.  Period.  I like to run fast.  Bike fast.  Swim moderately quickly…    Seriously, though, I prefer speed (as measured relative to my overall ability, of course).  So, to get with the program I have set some challenges for myself.  I try to get "KOR"s on Strava - King of Recovery.  No bling for it, but I know what was a success…  That sort of silliness has actually helped.

Some times it feels like I'm taking 6" strides while trying to keep my cadence up and pace down, but my body has learned and my cadence is about the same no matter what pace (until an actual race, where it does rise a couple spm).  Just have to train for running slowly like you would for running fast - it's a skill.

When it's then time to go fast, it's only that much more fun!  And my legs can handle it better, to boot.

Good luck… and go slow so you can then go FAST!

Matt

2014-05-26 6:36 PM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

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Subject: RE: I can't go slow
Here are some wise words on the subject, from an unconventional source...



(dremel.jpg)



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2014-06-05 9:24 AM
in reply to: Danno77

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Subject: RE: I can't go slow
Originally posted by Danno77

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by pnwdan Sounds like your zones are off. Zone 2 should feel like work. My zone 2 is also in the 130's, and 133 bpm (for me) is a moderate effort on the bike. If I just waffle about my HR stays under 120.

Do you have different HR zones for swim, bike, and run? (I am not talking about you specifically, but the collective "you")  There can be huge variances between the different disciplines.


I have different zones for bike and run. In general the run zones for me are slightly higher than the bike ones. Joel Friel has some good zone info if you google it. I got my run zones from him and my bike zones from sufferfest.


Danno,

Do you just know your zones and can keep track of what zone you're in by looking at the actual HR #? I'm not sure my watch (Forerunner 310xt) does multiple zone sets... Would it be best to set the zone for my weakest leg (running) if I can only set one?

The reason I ask is I'm 3 weeks into an OLY plan and my new replacement HRM from Garmin came yesterday. This morning was my first workout with being able to track my HR zone. It was a 25 minute run, 10 mins in Z2, 6 in Z4, 1 minute walk, 8 mins in Z2 and I struggled to keep in Z2. I was like 3.2-3.7 and my Z4 minutes were 4.8-5.1. Even the Z3 stuff felt quite easy and the Z4 was easier than I had been pushing my Z4's without the HRM.

Cheers
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