General Discussion Triathlon Talk » WTC/Ironman vs. the rest of the field Rss Feed  
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2014-06-04 3:18 PM

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Subject: WTC/Ironman vs. the rest of the field
Interesting article in yesterday's Wall Street Journal about WTC vs. non-WTC Ironman distance races in the US. It certainly seems like Ironman has 'won'. B2B and Vineman get some love, HITS hasn't gained any meaningful traction and there is mention of the new Challenge races, but Ironman juggernaut is the market leader and by a big amount.

When WTC acquired the Chesapeakeman race a few months back, I know there was a fair amount of disappointment by some folks around here. According to the WSJ article, only 144 athletes completed the Chesapeakeman in 2013. I didn't know it was that small - I'm sure the low numbers were a major reasons why Tricolumbia got into financial problems. Now that WTC has acquired that race, I wonder how many folks will race the 2014 and then the 2015 editions? I would bet the numbers surge.

In any case, the article is an interesting read.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/ironman-or-iron-distance-a-triathlon...



2014-06-04 3:26 PM
in reply to: LarchmontTri

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Subject: RE: WTC/Ironman vs. the rest of the field
Originally posted by LarchmontTri

Interesting article in yesterday's Wall Street Journal about WTC vs. non-WTC Ironman distance races in the US. It certainly seems like Ironman has 'won'. B2B and Vineman get some love, HITS hasn't gained any meaningful traction and there is mention of the new Challenge races, but Ironman juggernaut is the market leader and by a big amount.

When WTC acquired the Chesapeakeman race a few months back, I know there was a fair amount of disappointment by some folks around here. According to the WSJ article, only 144 athletes completed the Chesapeakeman in 2013. I didn't know it was that small - I'm sure the low numbers were a major reasons why Tricolumbia got into financial problems. Now that WTC has acquired that race, I wonder how many folks will race the 2014 and then the 2015 editions? I would bet the numbers surge.

In any case, the article is an interesting read.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/ironman-or-iron-distance-a-triathlon...




I don't get why so many athletes b*tch and moan about WTC events but never go elsewhere.

Common complaints:
DRAFTING
Too expensive
Too many nights required to stay
DRAFTING
Need to sign up a year in advance
Course too crowded
DRAFTING
  • ......

  • Rev 3, Challenge, Independent IM's, etc usually have the remedy to these complaints yet few make the switch.

    It's similar to the current prize money problem in triathlon. Pro's want more money and deeper pay, they had that with REV 3 for 3 years and they never really switched over, then showed that Kona points were more important then prize money. Now WTC has no reason to invest more money into the prize pool (however they may switch payouts and races that pay). It's similar to the AG ranks. Athletes make all these complaints but really do no speaking with their feet, again KQ, and having that over-the-to big event feel weight out every other complaint so why should WTC invest more into what they are doing if it sells so well?
    2014-06-04 4:11 PM
    in reply to: LarchmontTri

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    Subject: RE: WTC/Ironman vs. the rest of the field
    Yup I read the article. I was surprised they didn't mention Rev3 actually but I guess it's because they only have one full-distance race.

    I've done 70.3 races by Hits, Rev3 and Ironman as well as other local races. My only full distance was an Ironman. I haven't had a chance to do a Challenge event, yet. But personally I do think there is a huge difference between the experience you get at most small local races and an Ironman or Rev3 Event. When you're going spend all day being hosted by a race company for a full-distance it makes sense to pick the one who offers the best experience, in my opinion.

    So, while I'm a big fan of small businesses and underdogs in general I have to say in my opinion there is a big quality difference between Ironman Races and most local long course races. I could care less what a race is called. But for long course races I have the following things I love to see:
    1. a fairly large field so that I'm not alone for long on the bike or run.
    2. an accurately measured and marked course
    3. personally I love an expo and the pomp that goes with a big race
    4. The bike and run course needs to be clearly marked and generally safe (closed to traffic if possible)
    5. Happy volunteers and a fun finish line.

    I think Rev3 puts on a great race. I am on the East Coast of Florida so if their Florida event was where I didn't need to travel I'd do it every year. Since it's in Venice I'm I think on an every other year schedule. I would happily do another Rev3 event if it worked with my race schedule.

    I just did my first North American Ironman 70.3 event in Raleigh. I have to say it was fabulous. They really did a great job. The swim course was the absolutely best marked course I've ever swum. Obviously there is some difference between Ironman events since even though they carry the name the race directors can be different but I was very impressed and I had a great time. So I can see why people choose this brand over and over.

    I will never do a Hits event again - even if it's free. The one I did in Ocala I paid full price so close to $300. Each leg of the course was significantly off in distance, the roads were all open to aggressive traffic, there were practically no volunteers and the icing on the cake - they ran out of water on the run which in Florida in my opinion is unacceptable and the finish line was quite frankly pathetic. I hope they've gotten better but actually I don't care. I won't choose them again. I could care less about their snazzy transition area because I only plan to spend about 6 minutes there all day. Their race director is a really nice guy, I will say that.
    2014-06-04 4:24 PM
    in reply to: miamiamy

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    Subject: RE: WTC/Ironman vs. the rest of the field

    Thanks for the info.  I had actually been considering doing Ocala for the half-distance next year.  I may keep looking, don't like aggressive drivers and do like water.

    2014-06-04 7:23 PM
    in reply to: LarchmontTri


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    , Virginia
    Subject: RE: WTC/Ironman vs. the rest of the field
    I'm fairly new to this having only started doing triathlons last year. My wife has done them for a number of years.

    I've done a few local races, a few by Setup, and I did Rev3 Williamsburg last year. I also volunteered at Rev3 Rush this year in Richmond. Last weekend, my wife did Raleigh 70.3. I was there as a spectator. It was our first Ironman experience.

    I have to say that there is simply no comparison. Setup puts on good races. They are fairly well organized, the courses are well marked, and the volunteers are good and helpful.

    Rev3 Williamsburg last year was a fiasco. They couldn't get athletes to the start on time, they let people park in the transition area and had to change the course a the last minute resulting in a delayed start. The worst part, however, was due to the traffic problems in Williamsburg, they couldn't get bags to the finish line for 4 hours after Olympic racers finished! It was the first year of the race and they did change it dramatically this year, and they gave last year's participants a large discount for this year's race. We'll see how it goes next week.

    Volunteering at Rev3 Rush gave me another perspective on Rev3. They have way too many people that are "Staff" and too few volunteers. Nobody seems to be in charge of anything, so they provided conflicting information to participants and volunteers. Every "Staff" person seems to have power issues and contempt for volunteers. They seemed shocked that they needed volunteers on the run course. This is a leadership and management problem of the company.

    Raleigh 70.3, by contrast, was an amazing experience. WTC clearly knows what it is doing and how to put on a quality race. The atmosphere was electric; the volunteers were numerous and really went the extra mile to make sure that the participants had a tremendous experience. They clearly provide a great deal of guidance and training to volunteers. It's more than just the number, it's also about organization and leadership to provide proper guidance. The finish line experience was amazing. The crowds were huge. Watching the pros race was awesome! This is a big loss for Rev3 to drop its pro series.

    I'm all for competition. I like lower prices and not having to register so far in advance. But, now I get it after Raleigh. Ironman clearly knows how to put on a great race and a quality experience. If you are going to train for so many hours and months, spend a weekend at a race site, and spend so many hours on the course, you want a quality experience.

    Do you have any idea how desolate a 140.6 mile course is with less than 200 competitors?
    2014-06-05 7:25 AM
    in reply to: bcagle25

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    Subject: RE: WTC/Ironman vs. the rest of the field
    Originally posted by bcagle25

    Originally posted by LarchmontTri

    Interesting article in yesterday's Wall Street Journal about WTC vs. non-WTC Ironman distance races in the US. It certainly seems like Ironman has 'won'. B2B and Vineman get some love, HITS hasn't gained any meaningful traction and there is mention of the new Challenge races, but Ironman juggernaut is the market leader and by a big amount.

    When WTC acquired the Chesapeakeman race a few months back, I know there was a fair amount of disappointment by some folks around here. According to the WSJ article, only 144 athletes completed the Chesapeakeman in 2013. I didn't know it was that small - I'm sure the low numbers were a major reasons why Tricolumbia got into financial problems. Now that WTC has acquired that race, I wonder how many folks will race the 2014 and then the 2015 editions? I would bet the numbers surge.

    In any case, the article is an interesting read.

    http://online.wsj.com/articles/ironman-or-iron-distance-a-triathlon...




    I don't get why so many athletes b*tch and moan about WTC events but never go elsewhere.

    Common complaints:
    DRAFTING
    Too expensive
    Too many nights required to stay
    DRAFTING
    Need to sign up a year in advance
    Course too crowded
    DRAFTING
  • ......

  • Rev 3, Challenge, Independent IM's, etc usually have the remedy to these complaints yet few make the switch.

    It's similar to the current prize money problem in triathlon. Pro's want more money and deeper pay, they had that with REV 3 for 3 years and they never really switched over, then showed that Kona points were more important then prize money. Now WTC has no reason to invest more money into the prize pool (however they may switch payouts and races that pay). It's similar to the AG ranks. Athletes make all these complaints but really do no speaking with their feet, again KQ, and having that over-the-to big event feel weight out every other complaint so why should WTC invest more into what they are doing if it sells so well?



    x2 to all of this!


    2014-06-05 9:16 AM
    in reply to: 0

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    Subject: RE: WTC/Ironman vs. the rest of the field

    I've done 4 WTC IMs and 3 non WTC IMs.

    I think a big issue the non WTC iron distance races don't have is momentum or good reputation.....if the first race is good and folks like it more sign up for it but if the first race is poorly done race is dead.  I hope Challenge Atlantic City goes well this year.

    There seems to be a minimum number of athletes to have that vibe, excitement similar to an WTC IM. Plus fans at most IMs are really into it and add quite a bit to the fun of doing the race.

    As an athlete, I want similar to what other folks do.....atmosphere, large enough field that as a BOPer I'm not alone, confidence in the event that it will go off (some new races cancel or make big changes with low participation), good location and race course.

    We did a local first year Iron distance race as a relay. We finished about 12 hours and at the finish line there were no fans other than our group and the finish line workers of about 3 teenagers. Our runner when finishing didn't get that cool vibe of being close to the finish and the cheers of the fans.  I did the bike and it was a bit of a cluster in parts of the race where we were going thru major intersections where cops were not controlling traffic well first couple loops. By last loop they had coned off a bike lane which helped a lot. I didn't feel very safe at points due to the traffic and so few athletes cars didn't know what was going on.  Runners did 4 out and backs on one road talk about boring!  I would do that race as relay as it was fun but not as my A race due to the lack of excitement, the vibe and more but after year 2 they stopped doing the IM distance race or maybe they canceled the IM race right before the race due to lack of participation.  They did some great things like excellent pre race meeting with powerpoint and some unique and well thought out plans. Water safety plan that included a in the water triage boat or pontoon with medical professionals and more lifeguard boats than a typical WTC IM with less than 10% of the participants.

    I've done Chesapeake twice as a ABer. Well organized race, but few participants and low fanfare environment. Great course for the bike, run I heard was either 3 or 4 out and backs which is super boring. I remember finishing my first loop on the bike and seeing a few spectators for the first time since the swim and nothing from them. Again I think it was a fun race but not what I would want to do as my A race.

    We were signed up to do Challenge Atlantic City as a relay, but due to health concerns backed out. I'd do it as a ABer in the future if the reports back from this year are good.

    Pressure to sign up now forces athletes to decide to sign up a year out. Other races that don't fill, no pressure and folks sitting on the fence may not sign up. Just getting into a WTC race feels like an accomplishment. Now that many races are not selling out as fast, things may change a little. The races that don't sell out have a different attitude about them such as TX and KY.

    WTC niche in the market is tough to crack. I do hope other players make it and have awesome races to allow for choice.

    For me the Kona draw is nothing but I think for many it is. I suspect on the starting line maybe 5% are really in competition for a Kona slot though many more think they are or maybe dream about the possibility.

     

     



    Edited by KathyG 2014-06-05 9:17 AM
    2014-06-05 11:47 AM
    in reply to: bcagle25

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    Subject: RE: WTC/Ironman vs. the rest of the field

    Originally posted by bcagle25
    Originally posted by LarchmontTri Interesting article in yesterday's Wall Street Journal about WTC vs. non-WTC Ironman distance races in the US. It certainly seems like Ironman has 'won'. B2B and Vineman get some love, HITS hasn't gained any meaningful traction and there is mention of the new Challenge races, but Ironman juggernaut is the market leader and by a big amount. When WTC acquired the Chesapeakeman race a few months back, I know there was a fair amount of disappointment by some folks around here. According to the WSJ article, only 144 athletes completed the Chesapeakeman in 2013. I didn't know it was that small - I'm sure the low numbers were a major reasons why Tricolumbia got into financial problems. Now that WTC has acquired that race, I wonder how many folks will race the 2014 and then the 2015 editions? I would bet the numbers surge. In any case, the article is an interesting read. http://online.wsj.com/articles/ironman-or-iron-distance-a-triathlon...
    I don't get why so many athletes b*tch and moan about WTC events but never go elsewhere. Common complaints: DRAFTING Too expensive Too many nights required to stay DRAFTING Need to sign up a year in advance Course too crowded DRAFTING ....... Rev 3, Challenge, Independent IM's, etc usually have the remedy to these complaints yet few make the switch. It's similar to the current prize money problem in triathlon. Pro's want more money and deeper pay, they had that with REV 3 for 3 years and they never really switched over, then showed that Kona points were more important then prize money. Now WTC has no reason to invest more money into the prize pool (however they may switch payouts and races that pay). It's similar to the AG ranks. Athletes make all these complaints but really do no speaking with their feet, again KQ, and having that over-the-to big event feel weight out every other complaint so why should WTC invest more into what they are doing if it sells so well?

     

    Wait a minute... We can draft at WTC races?!?! That changes my whole race plan for IMCDA! Woohoo!!!

     

    2014-06-07 12:13 PM
    in reply to: cchs93

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    Subject: RE: WTC/Ironman vs. the rest of the field
    Hi There,

    I have done lots of independent 70.3's and some WTC 70.3s. I did IM Louisville last year. And I signed up for IM Maryland this year. If it was still the Chesapeakeman I would not have signed up for it.

    I think there needs to be a minimum amount of racers on a course to make it enjoyable for the racers and the volunteers. And 144 people is way too low in my opinion. One other big deal for me is support before, during, and after the race. With a WTC event you know that the logistics are taken care of. Other organizations' support varies so much that you have to be aware of their past support.

    I would still do some non WTC iron distance races, like GFT if my schedule allows it and they get more people back there.


    Rip..
    2014-06-07 10:29 PM
    in reply to: LarchmontTri

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    Subject: RE: WTC/Ironman vs. the rest of the field
    Having done my first WTC event this year, I can see why the fan fare about WTC events. Every detail of a WTC event has been meticulously thought out from gear bags, to volunteers, to transportation. I did Ironman Raleigh 70.3 last week, and it was point to point (swim and bike). Everything about getting bikes checked in, to getting gear bags to the finish area was laid out and executed perfectly. That, coupled with a phenomenal finish line environment makes it worth the price tag attached. I have done the Beach 2 Battleship 70.3 twice and really enjoyed that experience as well. Setup Events has done a great job with that event, nailing everything, including logistics and volunteer support. At the end of the day, the cost for B2B was not drastically different from the Ironman Raleigh 70.3. Both were executed great, with terrific support, volunteers, course marking and overall experience. I will definitely be doing both races in the future.
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