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You don't play golf? Why not?
OptionResults
I don't have the time
None of my friends play
I have no idea where to start
I tried it and didn't like it
I think that it is too expensive
My life is tied up with my kids' sports
The clothes
It is elitist
I'm afraid of being embarrassed
This is a multiple choice poll.

2014-08-04 9:06 PM
in reply to: JoelO

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Subject: RE: You don't play golf? Why not?
I'm a former PGA professional...turned sales guy now. I often compare golf to triathlon. In both sports it is what YOU make it. Both can be very boring to practice/train but both can be very exciting to compete in. Both are very individual sports as well. In my younger years I skipped fitness to play golf and now I find myself skipping golf for fitness. Both are pretty expensive. In fact for me, I think triathlon may be more expensive. I laughed the other day when I ordered my new Flo wheels and said "I could buy a new set of irons for that much money". Then add in gym membership, nutrition/supplements, entry fees, apparel, maintenance....

But to answer your question, I would play more if rounds took less time. I tend to only play early morning so I can play in 4 hours. Also having golf be more affordable would be helpful.


2014-08-06 8:06 PM
in reply to: Guest

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Subject: RE: You don't play golf? Why not?
1st, let me say some of the ideas they've come up with to "grow" the game are ridiculous.
Bigger holes? Really?
I love the game and look forward to being able to play often in my older years.
The game itself doesn't need to change...just make sure a good ranger is out there.
The cost? Well, that's another story.
If golfers are willing to pay the high price, the clubs can do well. If not, then I'd assume the price would fall accordingly.
Personally, I'd DEFINITELY play more if it didn't cost an arm and a leg.

btw, shot a 91 today with a quintuple bogey on one hole! STILL loved it! It was my best round in many years. Yes, I need to put more time in to practice...golf skill is a direct correlate to the amount of time one puts into it. STILL love it.

2014-08-07 4:57 PM
in reply to: ChineseDemocracy

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Subject: RE: You don't play golf? Why not?

In my mid-20's, I got a job at a car dealership as a salesman, and a lot of the guys I worked with played golf.  So I figured I should learn.

My buddy and I started going every weekend to play a round, and I'd go to the driving range once or twice a week when I got some free time to hit a bucket of balls.  We weren't very good, but it was a good way for us to hang out and act stupid on a Sunday morning.

Then one morning we decided to play a different course than the two Par 3 courses we had been playing.  And around the 9th or 10th hole I was so ticked off and frustrated that I contemplated throwing my clubs in a pond and leaving.  At the 12th hole we let a group play through, and they were all 16-18 years old.  They out drove me by 50 yards, hit way straighter than I ever could, chipped well, and all 2-putted the hole.  I shot a triple bogey on that hole IIRC.

I talked to a couple guys at work the following Monday, and they all played at least 4-5 times a week, and all shot in the low-90s consistently.  I didn't enjoy the game enough to put in that kind of time to get good enough at it to not embarrass myself and decided to find other pursuits in my free time.

So I went back to Tae Kwon Do.  It's much more satisfying to kick someone in the face than it is to hit a ball.

 

 

2014-08-08 7:35 AM
in reply to: ChineseDemocracy

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Subject: RE: You don't play golf? Why not?
Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy

1st, let me say some of the ideas they've come up with to "grow" the game are ridiculous.
Bigger holes? Really?
I love the game and look forward to being able to play often in my older years.
The game itself doesn't need to change...just make sure a good ranger is out there.
The cost? Well, that's another story.
If golfers are willing to pay the high price, the clubs can do well. If not, then I'd assume the price would fall accordingly.
Personally, I'd DEFINITELY play more if it didn't cost an arm and a leg.

btw, shot a 91 today with a quintuple bogey on one hole! STILL loved it! It was my best round in many years. Yes, I need to put more time in to practice...golf skill is a direct correlate to the amount of time one puts into it. STILL love it.




I think it's great that courses are trying something new and attempting to recognize that they have a big issue on their hands with the state of the game. I would have liked to play a course with the bigger hole just to see what it's like. If anything it probably gives you more confidence on and around the green, along with the 12-14 strokes you'd save every round. I think Golf Digest did some research a few years ago and said on average people were 11 strokes lower. I do think having rangers on the course that can approach people the right way and speed things up would be a huge help.
2014-08-14 12:53 PM
in reply to: Guest

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Subject: RE: You don't play golf? Why not?

Just the other day my boss and I were discussing golf and where it's headed as a sport so this thread has been particularly interesting for me to read. 

I read somewhere recently that for every new course that opens 10 close.  In my opinion the cost, degree of difficulty, time commitment and the age in which a person takes up the sport stacks the odds against people staying with it.  Especially if you didn't start as a kid it's not likely you'll pick it up as an adult.  I won't argue that triathlon is any cheaper, it can be but it can be very expensive too depending on what you want to invest.

I had friends who golfed as kids and I never once wanted to go along and give it a try.  Maybe if I had I'd be playing now but I didn't so my "exposure" to golf has been as an adult.  I tried going to the range, took a couple lessons and for one summer golfed every Sunday morning with my brother in-law and it felt like work.  In fact I came to dread it which is ridiculous to continue...

To answer the OP if you want to grow the sport I'd say figure out ways to encourage people to come try the sport.  Maybe hold some free or low cost clinics at a range and supply the clubs and "pros" to walk around and help people.  Then follow it up with a voucher for a free 9 or some steep incentive and see if any traction can be developed... And definitely encourage kids as any sport needs grass roots development for sustainability....

I've said to friends that when I'm too old to ride my bike regularly maybe I'll pick up golf however the reality is if I can't ride my bike I'm probably not going to be able to torque my spine to hit a ball I can barely see...

 

2014-08-14 1:04 PM
in reply to: TriMike

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Subject: RE: You don't play golf? Why not?

I have also heard that courses are closing at an alarming rate...  Maybe a lot, during these environmentally sensitive times, can't afford to "go green" OR the cost to maintain them in their current states.  Not everyone is a Pinehurst #2 where they can update the entire course.

But I'm still amazed that gold still takes up 4-6 hours of TV every Saturday and Sunday on the national networks.  Far more than any other sport other than maybe football.  I can't recall seeing more than one baseball game a week on NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox...  Same for hockey and even basketball.  Most of THOSE games are shown on cable networks like ESPN, TNT, etc...  It could also be I'm not really LOOKING for baseball and other sports, so I might have missed it.

 



2014-08-14 1:50 PM
in reply to: Kido

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Subject: RE: You don't play golf? Why not?

Originally posted by Kido

I have also heard that courses are closing at an alarming rate...  Maybe a lot, during these environmentally sensitive times, can't afford to "go green" OR the cost to maintain them in their current states.  Not everyone is a Pinehurst #2 where they can update the entire course.

But I'm still amazed that gold still takes up 4-6 hours of TV every Saturday and Sunday on the national networks.  Far more than any other sport other than maybe football.  I can't recall seeing more than one baseball game a week on NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox...  Same for hockey and even basketball.  Most of THOSE games are shown on cable networks like ESPN, TNT, etc...  It could also be I'm not really LOOKING for baseball and other sports, so I might have missed it.

 

Slight tangent, when I watch a few minutes of golf on TV I usually look to see what kind of gut the guys are carrying around.  It's amazing how many "young" golfers are chubs.... There's virtually nothing physical about the players that makes a casual observer want to watch more.... For example my wife always comments on the bodies of soccer players and how fit they are etc... She likes the game a little but likes the bodies a lot.... There's nothing about golf that she'd comment on other than the occasional good looking golfer but that's totally random, not sport specific.... There are zero chubs in serious soccer....

2014-08-14 2:38 PM
in reply to: TriMike

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Subject: RE: You don't play golf? Why not?

Originally posted by TriMike

Originally posted by Kido

I have also heard that courses are closing at an alarming rate...  Maybe a lot, during these environmentally sensitive times, can't afford to "go green" OR the cost to maintain them in their current states.  Not everyone is a Pinehurst #2 where they can update the entire course.

But I'm still amazed that gold still takes up 4-6 hours of TV every Saturday and Sunday on the national networks.  Far more than any other sport other than maybe football.  I can't recall seeing more than one baseball game a week on NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox...  Same for hockey and even basketball.  Most of THOSE games are shown on cable networks like ESPN, TNT, etc...  It could also be I'm not really LOOKING for baseball and other sports, so I might have missed it.

 

Slight tangent, when I watch a few minutes of golf on TV I usually look to see what kind of gut the guys are carrying around.  It's amazing how many "young" golfers are chubs.... There's virtually nothing physical about the players that makes a casual observer want to watch more.... For example my wife always comments on the bodies of soccer players and how fit they are etc... She likes the game a little but likes the bodies a lot.... There's nothing about golf that she'd comment on other than the occasional good looking golfer but that's totally random, not sport specific.... There are zero chubs in serious soccer....

Weird, I almost see the opposite.  The old guys like Phil, Colin, VJ, Kenny Perry (don't even talk about Stadlers!) seem to be a little more "round".

All the new generations?  Athletes.  Mostly because Tiger showed the more fit you are, the better player you can be.  Rory, Ricky, Adam Scott, Justin Johnson, Bubba, Kaymer, Hunter, Webb...  They are all fit guys.  I could go on an on.  Ryan Moore and Justin Reed are the few that come to mind that are a bit chunky from the new generation..  But there are all sorts of body types in every sport...  Charles Barkley was not the lean mean fighting machine that LeBron is..

Thought not "chubs" Lionel Messi is not going to change his career to be a fitness model like a Ronaldo or Bekham could and he's only the best player in the world, arguable.

I'm not defending golfers.  I know it's a sport where technique is far more important than aerobic capacity, but I don't think it's the sport of chubbies anymore either.

2014-08-14 3:25 PM
in reply to: Kido

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Subject: RE: You don't play golf? Why not?

Originally posted by Kido

Originally posted by TriMike

Originally posted by Kido

I have also heard that courses are closing at an alarming rate...  Maybe a lot, during these environmentally sensitive times, can't afford to "go green" OR the cost to maintain them in their current states.  Not everyone is a Pinehurst #2 where they can update the entire course.

But I'm still amazed that gold still takes up 4-6 hours of TV every Saturday and Sunday on the national networks.  Far more than any other sport other than maybe football.  I can't recall seeing more than one baseball game a week on NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox...  Same for hockey and even basketball.  Most of THOSE games are shown on cable networks like ESPN, TNT, etc...  It could also be I'm not really LOOKING for baseball and other sports, so I might have missed it.

 

Slight tangent, when I watch a few minutes of golf on TV I usually look to see what kind of gut the guys are carrying around.  It's amazing how many "young" golfers are chubs.... There's virtually nothing physical about the players that makes a casual observer want to watch more.... For example my wife always comments on the bodies of soccer players and how fit they are etc... She likes the game a little but likes the bodies a lot.... There's nothing about golf that she'd comment on other than the occasional good looking golfer but that's totally random, not sport specific.... There are zero chubs in serious soccer....

Weird, I almost see the opposite.  The old guys like Phil, Colin, VJ, Kenny Perry (don't even talk about Stadlers!) seem to be a little more "round".

All the new generations?  Athletes.  Mostly because Tiger showed the more fit you are, the better player you can be.  Rory, Ricky, Adam Scott, Justin Johnson, Bubba, Kaymer, Hunter, Webb...  They are all fit guys.  I could go on an on.  Ryan Moore and Justin Reed are the few that come to mind that are a bit chunky from the new generation..  But there are all sorts of body types in every sport...  Charles Barkley was not the lean mean fighting machine that LeBron is..

Thought not "chubs" Lionel Messi is not going to change his career to be a fitness model like a Ronaldo or Bekham could and he's only the best player in the world, arguable.

I'm not defending golfers.  I know it's a sport where technique is far more important than aerobic capacity, but I don't think it's the sport of chubbies anymore either.

I'm just not fluent enough with young golfers to counter with names however for every name you listed that's fit there are X more who have the entry level gut that will expand with their career... Maybe you don't see it hanging over their belt yet, however a "trim" waist at 20-something doesn't equate to fitness... And to be clear, young golfers with budding guts doesn't make them bad people, my point is they also don't draw in the young fans from purely a watching standpoint...

I had to do a little research to locate the name of the guy I'm picturing as I make the comments on the fitness aspect of golf...Jason Dufner is the name and from some of the things I've read about him he's a great guy, just putting a name with my point.  And to be honest he may be more of an extreme, not unlike John Daly..

As for the new generation being all athletes, no way.  As for the athlete part, someone more knowledgeable on this hopefully will weigh in but from the few serious golfers I know, they say the true athletes playing golf will have the shortest careers of all because of the combination of muscle and desire as it relates to torque on the back.  Tiger is a great example... He's breaking down big time and honestly I think Jack's major record is quite safe...

As for Messi, that's a huge reach as my point was based on fitness/physiques not looks... Messi is a supermodel if you compare him to Frank Ribery, Neymar, Zlatan Ibrihimovich to name a few...  

 

2014-08-14 5:03 PM
in reply to: TriMike

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Subject: RE: You don't play golf? Why not?

Fair enough.  It has to be a perception thing or what we decide is the measuring stick.  Because if you feel that you can, for every name I give you, give me x times more names that are OUT of shape?  I don't know what your gauge is.

I looked at the top 75 on the leaderboard for the PGA Championship that just happened.  Other than some of the names I mentioned, you are not going to see "fat" guys on the list - unless we have differently ways to measure that.  Seriously, go down the list and find more guys one there that are chubby than "fit"... 

I'm not going to get into the nice/bad people thing with you.  Too much there to get involved in and has nothing to do with being chubby or not.

It doesn't matter to me what you or others think of pro golfers - I'm not part of that group to take it personally.  I guess it's generalizations about entire groups of people based on (TO ME) a limited group of examples always tends to rub me the wrong way in just about every aspect in life.

The Messi comment had nothing to do with looks.  The point is that his "body" is not some marvel of genetics or screams "athlete".  Fit, of course, but he's not going to model underwear either but he's the best player in the world.  Same for Charles Barkley (as mentioned).  I have a difficult time not defending groups of people when judged purely on outward appearances - especially when it seems to be a small sample size.

 

2014-08-14 8:00 PM
in reply to: Kido

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Subject: RE: You don't play golf? Why not?

Originally posted by Kido

Fair enough.  It has to be a perception thing or what we decide is the measuring stick.  Because if you feel that you can, for every name I give you, give me x times more names that are OUT of shape?  I don't know what your gauge is.

I looked at the top 75 on the leaderboard for the PGA Championship that just happened.  Other than some of the names I mentioned, you are not going to see "fat" guys on the list - unless we have differently ways to measure that.  Seriously, go down the list and find more guys one there that are chubby than "fit"... 

I'm not going to get into the nice/bad people thing with you.  Too much there to get involved in and has nothing to do with being chubby or not.

It doesn't matter to me what you or others think of pro golfers - I'm not part of that group to take it personally.  I guess it's generalizations about entire groups of people based on (TO ME) a limited group of examples always tends to rub me the wrong way in just about every aspect in life.

The Messi comment had nothing to do with looks.  The point is that his "body" is not some marvel of genetics or screams "athlete".  Fit, of course, but he's not going to model underwear either but he's the best player in the world.  Same for Charles Barkley (as mentioned).  I have a difficult time not defending groups of people when judged purely on outward appearances - especially when it seems to be a small sample size.

 

I think if you re-read my posts it's pretty clear I wasn't judging golfers other than to say they don't bring in viewers based on their physiques and athleticism like other sports and I chose soccer as my example.  That's just a fact regardless if we go down the top 75 of the PGA and tally what I define as chubs and what you define as athletes and you have more in your athlete column ..

I would also say if Messi doesn't scream athlete I'd need to know your gauge for defining athletes....You say you're not talking about looks then go back to commenting on looks, the latest being underwear models.  Messi truly looks like an athlete, screams it in fact.... You may be confusing his lack of height  and stockyness for non-athleticism which again means you need to define what an athlete looks like....

And to bolster your point using Barkley isn't fair to either of them as Barkley and the "round mound of rebound" was just catchy..



2014-08-15 10:56 AM
in reply to: TriMike

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Subject: RE: You don't play golf? Why not?

Originally posted by TriMike

Originally posted by Kido

Fair enough.  It has to be a perception thing or what we decide is the measuring stick.  Because if you feel that you can, for every name I give you, give me x times more names that are OUT of shape?  I don't know what your gauge is.

I looked at the top 75 on the leaderboard for the PGA Championship that just happened.  Other than some of the names I mentioned, you are not going to see "fat" guys on the list - unless we have differently ways to measure that.  Seriously, go down the list and find more guys one there that are chubby than "fit"... 

I'm not going to get into the nice/bad people thing with you.  Too much there to get involved in and has nothing to do with being chubby or not.

It doesn't matter to me what you or others think of pro golfers - I'm not part of that group to take it personally.  I guess it's generalizations about entire groups of people based on (TO ME) a limited group of examples always tends to rub me the wrong way in just about every aspect in life.

The Messi comment had nothing to do with looks.  The point is that his "body" is not some marvel of genetics or screams "athlete".  Fit, of course, but he's not going to model underwear either but he's the best player in the world.  Same for Charles Barkley (as mentioned).  I have a difficult time not defending groups of people when judged purely on outward appearances - especially when it seems to be a small sample size.

 

I think if you re-read my posts it's pretty clear I wasn't judging golfers other than to say they don't bring in viewers based on their physiques and athleticism like other sports and I chose soccer as my example.  That's just a fact regardless if we go down the top 75 of the PGA and tally what I define as chubs and what you define as athletes and you have more in your athlete column ..

I would also say if Messi doesn't scream athlete I'd need to know your gauge for defining athletes....You say you're not talking about looks then go back to commenting on looks, the latest being underwear models.  Messi truly looks like an athlete, screams it in fact.... You may be confusing his lack of height  and stockyness for non-athleticism which again means you need to define what an athlete looks like....

And to bolster your point using Barkley isn't fair to either of them as Barkley and the "round mound of rebound" was just catchy..

Whatever....  I'm tired and deleted a dissertation.

Agree to disagree.  You think golfers are chubby and non athletes.  I give them more credit.  BTY, many were multi sport athletes in HS and college but chose golf to have a perfession.  Folwlr races motorcross,  Bradley and others are good downlhill skiers.  Nicklaus was a fantastic football and baseball player before turning to golf for a profession.

What's funny, if you admit you don't even know who they are, but yet have made decisions based on some "chubby" factor you ascertained over the "few seconds" of golf you watch (also admitted)...

Also, can you provide any data that they don't bring in viewers because of the "non athletic/chubby" factor?  I would love to see it.  Are you in the TV industry or with Neilson or is that based on a few seconds of watching golf and seeing a few chubby guys?

It's obvious you don't get what I'm trying to say and you keep thinking I'm talking about being "handsome" is a factor of athleticism.  I give up on trying to explain.  It's a waste of breath. 

Very simply, I was saying you can't judge people simply by how they look - I have repeated that over and over and tried to give examples of you can't judge by how someone looks but the message is missed.  You can't tell if someone is an "athlete" buy a seconds glance and if they have a belly or not.  You can't tell if they are good people or not by a look - which is something I chose not to even get into with you.  You can't tell Messi is the world's best futball player at a glance.  And NO, not because of his facial symmetry, skin tone, or nose shape - to make SURE that I'm not talking about being handsome which is the message you seemed to have gotten from my example.  Can't judge people by a glance, much less a whole GROUP of people based on a few people.  _Well, at least that's how I feel.

I get your opinion about golfers and athleticism.  I chose to give them more credit.  Agree to disagree and move on.  World would be boring if we all thought alike. 

2014-08-15 1:08 PM
in reply to: Kido

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Subject: RE: You don't play golf? Why not?

Originally posted by Kido

Originally posted by TriMike

Originally posted by Kido

Fair enough.  It has to be a perception thing or what we decide is the measuring stick.  Because if you feel that you can, for every name I give you, give me x times more names that are OUT of shape?  I don't know what your gauge is.

I looked at the top 75 on the leaderboard for the PGA Championship that just happened.  Other than some of the names I mentioned, you are not going to see "fat" guys on the list - unless we have differently ways to measure that.  Seriously, go down the list and find more guys one there that are chubby than "fit"... 

I'm not going to get into the nice/bad people thing with you.  Too much there to get involved in and has nothing to do with being chubby or not.

It doesn't matter to me what you or others think of pro golfers - I'm not part of that group to take it personally.  I guess it's generalizations about entire groups of people based on (TO ME) a limited group of examples always tends to rub me the wrong way in just about every aspect in life.

The Messi comment had nothing to do with looks.  The point is that his "body" is not some marvel of genetics or screams "athlete".  Fit, of course, but he's not going to model underwear either but he's the best player in the world.  Same for Charles Barkley (as mentioned).  I have a difficult time not defending groups of people when judged purely on outward appearances - especially when it seems to be a small sample size.

 

I think if you re-read my posts it's pretty clear I wasn't judging golfers other than to say they don't bring in viewers based on their physiques and athleticism like other sports and I chose soccer as my example.  That's just a fact regardless if we go down the top 75 of the PGA and tally what I define as chubs and what you define as athletes and you have more in your athlete column ..

I would also say if Messi doesn't scream athlete I'd need to know your gauge for defining athletes....You say you're not talking about looks then go back to commenting on looks, the latest being underwear models.  Messi truly looks like an athlete, screams it in fact.... You may be confusing his lack of height  and stockyness for non-athleticism which again means you need to define what an athlete looks like....

And to bolster your point using Barkley isn't fair to either of them as Barkley and the "round mound of rebound" was just catchy..

Whatever....  I'm tired and deleted a dissertation.

Agree to disagree.  You think golfers are chubby and non athletes.  I give them more credit.  BTY, many were multi sport athletes in HS and college but chose golf to have a perfession.  Folwlr races motorcross,  Bradley and others are good downlhill skiers.  Nicklaus was a fantastic football and baseball player before turning to golf for a profession.

What's funny, if you admit you don't even know who they are, but yet have made decisions based on some "chubby" factor you ascertained over the "few seconds" of golf you watch (also admitted)...

Also, can you provide any data that they don't bring in viewers because of the "non athletic/chubby" factor?  I would love to see it.  Are you in the TV industry or with Neilson or is that based on a few seconds of watching golf and seeing a few chubby guys?

It's obvious you don't get what I'm trying to say and you keep thinking I'm talking about being "handsome" is a factor of athleticism.  I give up on trying to explain.  It's a waste of breath. 

Very simply, I was saying you can't judge people simply by how they look - I have repeated that over and over and tried to give examples of you can't judge by how someone looks but the message is missed.  You can't tell if someone is an "athlete" buy a seconds glance and if they have a belly or not.  You can't tell if they are good people or not by a look - which is something I chose not to even get into with you.  You can't tell Messi is the world's best futball player at a glance.  And NO, not because of his facial symmetry, skin tone, or nose shape - to make SURE that I'm not talking about being handsome which is the message you seemed to have gotten from my example.  Can't judge people by a glance, much less a whole GROUP of people based on a few people.  _Well, at least that's how I feel.

I get your opinion about golfers and athleticism.  I chose to give them more credit.  Agree to disagree and move on.  World would be boring if we all thought alike. 

Agree to disagree indeed.

I fail to make my points with you as well and honestly it doesn't really matter.  My opinion is golfers aren't visually pleasing "athletes" to the point they will draw in a novice and have that novice become interested in the sport. I admit I labeled the whole based on a few.

Can we agree women's beach volleyball retains 100% of the channel surfers who stumble onto their match???

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