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2014-07-28 3:31 PM

Vancouver, BC
Subject: Vancouver Stanley Park Drive - A cyclist's guide
Nut Buster Map



1. First attraction is the roundabout of chance. Especially coming from Pipeline Road, you get to play the guessing game whether north bound cars will see you coming around the big tree in the middle.

2. During certain times of day, you may be lucky enough to find the road covered in diluted horse dung, which will refresh your calves as it sprays up onto your bike.

3. Enjoy the misplaced stop sign that should be on the other side, you know, the side where cars are coming out of a parking lot. Stand up on your bike and look carefully for traffic to the right, and you can pretend the stop sign doesn't exist.

4. For those who enjoy tight left turns, especially when cars miss the stop line. This poorly designed intersection will bring loads of drama to your boring average ride. You may even be lucky enough to see a driver turn the wrong way into one-way traffic.

5. Congratulations on making it up the biggest hill and now for your reward, cars speeding at 60 kph from Prospect Point Cafe all the way to Second Beach. Bicycles go at 60 kph, so why not cars too? Oh right, I forgot section 146 of the BC MVA applies specifically to motor-vehicles.

6. Do you want a right hook with your tea? Watch out for cars turning from the left lane into the teahouse. Best to say in the left lane, also for attraction #7.

7. That tea was relaxing, now let's blow through a stop sign. It's not uncommon for cars to ignore that stop sign completely, so they will be "merging" with the right lane.


Do you have other attractions to share? Agree or disagree with this list?





2014-07-28 11:37 PM
in reply to: meepx2

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Subject: RE: Vancouver Stanley Park Drive - A cyclist's guide

Haha, I like this.  I've definitely seen all of those issues numerous times.

Except for #5 I feel the exact opposite, my issue is usually people driving the speed limit side by side.  Drives me crazy.  Either drive 60km/h+ so you are not blocking the bikes or drive single file! Leave somewhere for the bikes to ride!   I hate getting to the top of the hill looking forward to flying down the other side and being stuck going 30km/h the whole way down.  Grrr...

 

P.S. when you say "t section 146 of the BC MVA applies specifically to motor-vehicles" are you saying that the speed limit doesn't apply to bikes?

P.P.S. who is doing the Vancouver Triathlon in Stanley Park this year? I'm on the fence as to whether or not I'm doing it...

2014-07-29 8:33 PM
in reply to: Chillin

Vancouver, BC
Subject: RE: Vancouver Stanley Park Drive - A cyclist's guide
Ya, #5 is debatable. On the stretch just before the downhill, I find cars to speed. Maybe people forget the speed limit coming out of prospect point or maybe the long stretch of straight road lends itself to naturally higher speeds.

I am open to do the Stanley Park Triathlon as part of a team effort if anyone is looking for a cyclist. I've only been training cycling this summer.

Regarding speed limits and bicycles, here is the 146 section from the BC MVA:

Speed limits

146 (1) Subject to this section, a person must not drive or operate a motor vehicle on a highway in a municipality or treaty lands at a greater rate of speed than 50 km/h, and a person must not drive or operate a motor vehicle on a highway outside a municipality at a greater rate of speed than 80 km/h.

(2) The minister responsible for the administration of the Transportation Act may, by causing a sign to be erected or placed on a highway limiting the rate of speed of motor vehicles or a category of motor vehicles driven or operated on that portion of the highway, increase or decrease the rate of speed at which a person may drive or operate a motor vehicle or a category of motor vehicle on that portion of the highway.

(3) If the minister responsible for the administration of the Transportation Act has caused a sign to be erected or placed on a highway limiting the rate of speed of motor vehicles or a category of motor vehicles driven or operated on that portion of the highway, a person must not, when the sign is in place on the highway, drive or operate a vehicle on that portion of the highway at a greater rate of speed than that indicated on the sign for that category of motor vehicle.

(4) The minister responsible for the administration of the Transportation Act may, by notice in the Gazette, define areas in the unorganized area of British Columbia, and may by causing signs to be erected at the entrance to an area so defined direct the rate of speed at which a person may drive or operate a motor vehicle or a category of motor vehicle in that area, but the rate of speed must not be greater than 60 km/h.

(5) If the minister responsible for the administration of the Transportation Act has caused signs to be erected or placed on a highway in accordance with subsection (4), a person must not, when the sign is in place on the highway, drive or operate a vehicle on a highway at a greater rate of speed than that indicated on the sign for that category of motor vehicle, unless another sign on a specific highway in the defined area so indicates.

(6) Subject to subsections (2) and (3), a municipality may by bylaw direct the rate of speed at which a person may drive or operate a motor vehicle on a highway in the municipality.

(7) If, under a bylaw adopted by a municipality or a law enacted by a treaty first nation, signs have been erected or placed on a highway limiting the rate of speed of motor vehicles driven or operated on a designated portion of the highway, a person must not, when the sign is in place on the highway, drive or operate a motor vehicle on that portion of the highway at a greater rate of speed than that indicated on the sign.

(8) A municipality may by bylaw direct that the rate of speed at which a person may drive or operate a motor vehicle in the municipality on a lane not exceeding 8 m in width must not be in excess of 20 km/h.

(9) Despite section 260 (3)[enforcement powers] of the Community Charter, a person who contravenes a bylaw made under subsection (6) or (8) does not commit an offence against the bylaw.

(10) A municipality that has enacted a bylaw under subsection (8) and a treaty first nation that has enacted a law having the same effect are not required to erect signs designating the rate of speed at which motor vehicles may be driven or operated.

(11) A person must not drive or operate a motor vehicle on a lane in a municipality that has enacted a bylaw under subsection (8) or in the treaty lands of a treaty first nation that has enacted a law having the same effect at a greater rate of speed than 20 km/h.

Two exceptions to this:

1) Section 140 pertaining to construction zones, where it says vehicle and not motor-vehicle:

140 Where traffic control devices as indicated in section 138 or 139 are erected or placed on the highway, a person must not drive or operate a vehicle at a greater rate of speed than, or in a manner different from, that indicated on the signs.

2) Section 147 pertaining to schools and playgrounds:

147 (1) A person driving a vehicle on a regular school day and on a highway where signs are displayed stating a speed limit of 30 km/h, or on which the numerals "30" are prominently shown, must drive at a rate of speed not exceeding 30 km/h while approaching or passing the school building and school grounds to which the signs relate, between 8 a.m. and 5 p.m., or subject to subsection (1.1), between any extended times

One possible pitfall is City of Vancouver STREET AND TRAFFIC BY LAW NO. 2849c:

ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC REGULATIONS RESPECTING PUBLIC PARKS

63.A (4) Drive any vehicle in any public park (except as provided in section 44) at a
greater speed than 40 kilometres per hour or such lesser speed as may be
directed by traffic signs.

Technically you don't "drive" a bicycle, but their definition of Drive is: means to drive, operate, propel, or otherwise control a vehicle.

And their definition of vehicle is: includes any device by which any person or property may be transported on a roadway, irrespective of the motive power, but does not include railway cars running upon rails.

So maybe you could be given a ticket under 63.A(4), but you could argue that the MVA never intended speed limits to apply to bicycles, and thus the bylaw is unenforceable. Or you could argue that the causeway that goes through Stanley Park, and directly conflicts the bylaw since it is within Stanley Park, so it can't be both ways.

Here's a related topic that someone wrote with regards to the non-application of speed limits to bicycles in Ontario: http://therecord.blogs.com/take_the_lane/2009/09/cyclists-cant-be-c...
2014-07-31 12:38 AM
in reply to: meepx2

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Subject: RE: Vancouver Stanley Park Drive - A cyclist's guide

Interesting, thanks for the info.

 

Maybe that explains what happened to me a few weeks ago:  I was flying down Stanley Park Drive, on section 5 of your map, right where it turns hard to the right and the speed limit drops to 20km/h when at the last second I saw a cop there with a radar gun, I was going 61.1km/h (so over triple the speed limit).  He saw me, lowered his gun and just gave me a little nod. Then as soon as I was passing him he raised his radar gun up again.  I thought he was just being nice to me, but maybe that's not why. 

2014-07-31 12:38 AM
in reply to: meepx2

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Subject: RE: Vancouver Stanley Park Drive - A cyclist's guide

Interesting, thanks for the info.

 

Maybe that explains what happened to me a few weeks ago:  I was flying down Stanley Park Drive, on section 5 of your map, right where it turns hard to the right and the speed limit drops to 20km/h when at the last second I saw a cop there with a radar gun, I was going 61.1km/h (so over triple the speed limit).  He saw me, lowered his gun and just gave me a little nod. Then as soon as I was passing him he raised his radar gun up again.  I thought he was just being nice to me, but maybe that's not why. 

2014-07-31 3:51 AM
in reply to: Chillin

Vancouver, BC
Subject: RE: Vancouver Stanley Park Drive - A cyclist's guide
Speed limits on a yellow background are suggestions. The true speed limit is whatever is on a white background.

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/popular-topics/faq.htm#traffic_signs

That spot for catching speeders is pointless, because everyone is going 50~60 kph there. They should setup in places where it's flat or uphill to catch the true speeders.


2014-07-31 2:21 PM
in reply to: meepx2

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Vancouver, BC
Subject: RE: Vancouver Stanley Park Drive - A cyclist's guide

What? You don't stand on the hill to prospect point?

Also, I dare you to mark all of the strava segments. 

2014-08-01 1:16 AM
in reply to: jeng

Vancouver, BC
Subject: RE: Vancouver Stanley Park Drive - A cyclist's guide
I stay in aero up that hill.

I'll write an app that detects the bumpiness of the road based on vibrations in the phone, coordinates with GPS, and centralizes that data for all users to download. I'll make money by selling the data to municipalities who want to monitor the quality of their roads.
2014-08-01 12:48 PM
in reply to: meepx2

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Subject: RE: Vancouver Stanley Park Drive - A cyclist's guide

Okay.

#1 yep. Usually just take the right of way and adjust my pace accordingly.

#2 The horse dung can be found anywhere the horses are. I actually notice the most from after it levels out again after Brocton Point (#3) to just before the merging traffic #4. Can't they catch that stuff before it hits the ground?

Adding #2.5, the parking lot and left turn just past Deadman's Island. so many cars will turn left from the right lane. Keep your head up.

Totally agree with #3. Even if a car is coming, it's going so slow, I can get in front of it anyway.

#4, I stay in the right lane and usually it's okay.

Adding #4.5. The hill. 

a- So many slow buses, especially the trolley's that you actually have to pass going up hill. And man are they stinky and hot.

b- If you are in the right lane riding up the hill by yourself, better stay further to the right. Even though cars pass you in the left lane, they just can't wait to get back to the right lane, so are often riding with 2 of their wheels in your lane.

c- Just before the parking lot at prospect point. Be aware of cars turning right into the parking lot from the left lane. They thought they could pass you and turn right in front of you, but it turns out that you are going the same pace they are and they can't.

#5 I'll take the speeding cars over the slow cars. Especially those that randomly brake.

#6 Yeah, if there is any traffic at all, stay in the left lane.

#7 Yeah, stay in the left lane. i also think it is shorter to go straight past those trees and not the little arc that goes right. You aren't going to win the strava segment if you stay right.

I'm going to add #8 just past second beach concession. If you are going straight in the right lane to leave the park, watch for all of the traffic that is still in the left lane to realize that they don't want to go left and just move over to the right.

Also, going to add the people who randomly stop anywhere around the loop, even though there is a sign that says no stopping about every 5 feet. They signs are so abundant, the people stopping are usually under one.

2014-08-01 12:49 PM
in reply to: jeng

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Subject: RE: Vancouver Stanley Park Drive - A cyclist's guide

PS - I love Stanley park. You can almost see where I live on your map. I ride there or through there at least once a week all year long.

2014-08-01 9:15 PM
in reply to: 0

Vancouver, BC
Subject: RE: Vancouver Stanley Park Drive - A cyclist's guide
I thought they use to have bags on the horses years ago. They should pay someone to follow the horse with a shovel, what a great job that would be. Dog owners don't get a pass, why don't horse owners have to pick up their animal's turds?

Good point about #2.5, as well as cars pulling out from the parallel parking spots without looking.

I can't remember ever passing a bus going uphill to prospect point. As the roar of their engines approach, it becomes a challenge to stay in front for as long as possible, only to end up eating a mouthful of exhaust.

Good additions! What's your average lap speed?

Edited by meepx2 2014-08-01 9:16 PM


2014-08-05 1:29 AM
in reply to: 0

Vancouver, BC
Subject: RE: Vancouver Stanley Park Drive - A cyclist's guide
The police were at their favorite speed trap location today between 3 pm and 4 pm. Looks like they were hungry for tourists, as it looked like most of the cars they stopped had US plates. Once they have someone pulled over, it blocks off one lane and causes congestion. Next time, I'll ask if they are citing section 146 or the by-law.

Edited by meepx2 2014-08-05 1:29 AM
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