General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Running slower now? What happened??? Rss Feed  
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2014-09-03 4:54 PM

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Subject: Running slower now? What happened???
Greeting everyone!

It's me again. This time I'm posting about question about my recent running pace. This year has been by far my longest training streak in a calendar year without injuries to sideline me so I think my body is kinda tired now but I also want to see what you guys think.

I've been training for a couple triathlons this year since February and have been using Jeff Galloway's Magic Mile to measure my improvements in running efficiency:

March: 7:43
April: 7:16
May: 7:03
June: 7:01
July: 7:27 (windy day)

I averaged 156-158bpm HR for all these tests which is slightly above my LTHR.

Raced Vineman 70.3 mid July and Goleta Beach Olympic 2 weeks after. I think I recovered well enough between those 2 races and enough after Goleta. My logs are up to date if you'd like to how much recovery I did. I'm now in full marathon training mode so I'm running alot more and putting some bike and swim in for cross training along with maintaining my strength training.

What's weird is I just ran a magic mile test yesterday and timed a 7:52 mile @ 150bpm avg HR. Back to where I started!?!?!? O_O

Is this normal having trained as long as I have this year? Please give me your thoughts! =D

Thanks!
Roland =^.^=


2014-09-03 5:40 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Running slower now? What happened???

Short of conditions (such as wind, hills, temp) affecting your performance.  Or- just having an off day.  my guess is that your chronic training load is pretty high.  So, while acute training load has recovered, you're still buried in fatigue.  

For me- I never know how fast I am until race day.  I've looked at years of strava run segment data, trying to find trends and compare HR and pace over the same, often run portions- and i can find little to no correlation.

but I just PRed an annual 8 mile race on monday... by 3 Friggen Minutes!  So that pretty much seals it for me.  I AM way faster than I was- but I can barely tell via training runs.

2014-09-03 6:32 PM
in reply to: #5046585


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Subject: RE: Running slower now? What happened???
What has your weight looked like?
2014-09-03 6:33 PM
in reply to: morey000

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Master
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Subject: RE: Running slower now? What happened???
Originally posted by morey000

still buried in fatigue.  




I think you're right. >.<
2014-09-03 6:34 PM
in reply to: #5046614


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Subject: RE: Running slower now? What happened???
Also "kinda tired now" is vague, would need a good history of extended and recent training load.
2014-09-03 6:34 PM
in reply to: ImSore

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Subject: RE: Running slower now? What happened???
Originally posted by ImSore

What has your weight looked like?


Not much change. I think I gained 1-2 pounds since peaking for Vineman.


2014-09-03 6:38 PM
in reply to: ImSore

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Subject: RE: Running slower now? What happened???
Originally posted by ImSore

Also "kinda tired now" is vague, would need a good history of extended and recent training load.


I've been building up my fitness since February this year. I raced Oceanside 70.3 March 2013, HM in August and December 2013. Also raced in 2012 and 2011. Been into triathlons since 2011. Feel free to look at my training logs.
2014-09-03 7:55 PM
in reply to: #5046616

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Subject: RE: Running slower now? What happened???
Is the idea of a magic mile test that it's at race pace effort? If so, you should be well above LTHR for one mile distance. You would really need to max out your effort in a mile to use it as a measuring stick for fitness gains so the differences could just be how hard you pushed and not fitness.
2014-09-03 8:06 PM
in reply to: Landmammal


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Subject: RE: Running slower now? What happened???
Looks like you averaged around 2.5 to 3 hours of running per week for most of the year, but recently you did 5 hrs, then 8 hrs. I'm guessing its tired legs. Nothing to be worried about IMO, just keep to your plan. If you put those types of numbers on the board consistently, you're going to improve, no need to test yourself.
2014-09-03 8:54 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland


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Subject: RE: Running slower now? What happened???
Originally posted by kloofyroland

Originally posted by ImSore

Also "kinda tired now" is vague, would need a good history of extended and recent training load.


I've been building up my fitness since February this year. I raced Oceanside 70.3 March 2013, HM in August and December 2013. Also raced in 2012 and 2011. Been into triathlons since 2011. Feel free to look at my training logs.


Total Running Volume

August- 20.85
July 7.71
June 13.63
May 15.06
April 13.13
March 11.87

Though August you have run significantly more. And one thing I noticed is that in August you've been doing a long run once per week in the 2 to 3 hour range. Those long runs also look like pretty large percentage of your total weekly running for the last 3 weeks of August in the 40 to 50 % range if I looked at the charts right. It looks like you haven't run greater than two hours for individual runs in the few previous months I looked at, and now you did it 3 weeks in a row.

In short, pretty much what most people said. You're carrying fatigue. (Although 1 or 2 pounds could be 2 to 4 seconds per mile by some estimates!)

Also, there is a pretty good rule of thumb that suggests that your long runs should be approximately 25 to 30 % of your weekly run volume, so I would look at that. Keep up the consistency though, and you will get faster no doubt.

I also wanted to tell you I am jealous of how diligently you keep your logs. I can get the training done, but when it comes to logging, I am terrible.
2014-09-03 9:11 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Running slower now? What happened???
I don't think you ran hard enough for your last test, evidenced by your low HR. If you were overtrained you would be slower for a given HR.

Do you have bodyweight, time of day you did the test, and temp/humidity for the time you did the test? Did you run the same mile for each test or does the terrain vary? There are a ton of factors that affect performance and the variation you pointed out doesn't seem out of line given the limited data.


2014-09-03 10:44 PM
in reply to: Landmammal

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Subject: RE: Running slower now? What happened???
Originally posted by Landmammal

Is the idea of a magic mile test that it's at race pace effort? If so, you should be well above LTHR for one mile distance. You would really need to max out your effort in a mile to use it as a measuring stick for fitness gains so the differences could just be how hard you pushed and not fitness.


I ran the 1 mile TT at a pace as hard as I could sustain per the instructions written here:

http://www.jeffgalloway.com/training/magic-mile/

I'm certain I paced each test I've done to the point where I didn't puke at the end of it (just nearly).

And yes, at the end of each test, I finished at a HR well above LTHR.
2014-09-03 10:54 PM
in reply to: ImSore

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Subject: RE: Running slower now? What happened???
Originally posted by ImSore

Total Running Volume

August- 20.85
July 7.71
June 13.63
May 15.06
April 13.13
March 11.87

Though August you have run significantly more. And one thing I noticed is that in August you've been doing a long run once per week in the 2 to 3 hour range. Those long runs also look like pretty large percentage of your total weekly running for the last 3 weeks of August in the 40 to 50 % range if I looked at the charts right. It looks like you haven't run greater than two hours for individual runs in the few previous months I looked at, and now you did it 3 weeks in a row.

In short, pretty much what most people said. You're carrying fatigue. (Although 1 or 2 pounds could be 2 to 4 seconds per mile by some estimates!)

Also, there is a pretty good rule of thumb that suggests that your long runs should be approximately 25 to 30 % of your weekly run volume, so I would look at that. Keep up the consistency though, and you will get faster no doubt.

I also wanted to tell you I am jealous of how diligently you keep your logs. I can get the training done, but when it comes to logging, I am terrible.


Thanks for the compliment!

You make a good point about my long runs. I'll start spreading out more short runs during the week to compensate for my recent LSD run percentage. Thanks for pointing this out.
2014-09-04 12:26 AM
in reply to: pnwdan

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Subject: RE: Running slower now? What happened???
Originally posted by pnwdan

I don't think you ran hard enough for your last test, evidenced by your low HR. If you were overtrained you would be slower for a given HR.

Do you have bodyweight, time of day you did the test, and temp/humidity for the time you did the test? Did you run the same mile for each test or does the terrain vary? There are a ton of factors that affect performance and the variation you pointed out doesn't seem out of line given the limited data.


Believe me I ran as hard as I could without puking. I was a bit surprised myself at how that HR turned out to be. I logged the weather conditions and trained about the same time for each test.

Looks like I have a new LTHR as well as new recommended training paces.

2014-09-05 7:17 AM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Running slower now? What happened???
When I'm tired I can't push my HR up to run faster. Just like you I have my HR/Pace pretty much nailed down. You give me a HR and I can tell you how fast I am running.

Looks like you said your average was 150 compared to 156-158. That's a pretty big difference in effort. Easily 30 seconds on a mile.

Have you been pushing into the 160's or 170's? at all?

It seems like you have a decent base and should be able to hit a little higher HR on the mile.

Run 400's!
2014-09-05 11:40 AM
in reply to: Nick B

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Subject: RE: Running slower now? What happened???
Originally posted by Nick B

When I'm tired I can't push my HR up to run faster. Just like you I have my HR/Pace pretty much nailed down. You give me a HR and I can tell you how fast I am running.

Looks like you said your average was 150 compared to 156-158. That's a pretty big difference in effort. Easily 30 seconds on a mile.

Have you been pushing into the 160's or 170's? at all?

It seems like you have a decent base and should be able to hit a little higher HR on the mile.

Run 400's!


You're right man. I haven't been doing much speed work lately other than strides this past month. And nope, I haven't pushing 160s or 170s either. >.< I was concerned with burning myself out too early after racing in July so I stuck with mostly easy effort runs.

I'm gonna run 400s @ 5K effort on the track starting next week. Let's see how high my HR goes! =D


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