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2014-10-31 9:09 PM


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Subject: Ironman vs Iron Distance
Hoping that by writing down the war that is being waged by my head vs wallet, I might get advice from others who experienced the same thing. I am about to embark on the journey that is my first 140.6, and the first question is: Which race should I do? Should I do an Ironman Race, and the price tag that goes along with it, or should I do another well established 140.6. Should I sign up for IMFL 2015 and the appx 700 price tag, or the Great Floridian Triathlon 2015 which is only $250.00 (early sign up)

Is racing an Ironman branded race that much better? Has anybody else beaten themselves up over this?

Thanks for any response



2014-11-01 7:31 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman vs Iron Distance
Originally posted by michael08

Hoping that by writing down the war that is being waged by my head vs wallet, I might get advice from others who experienced the same thing. I am about to embark on the journey that is my first 140.6, and the first question is: Which race should I do? Should I do an Ironman Race, and the price tag that goes along with it, or should I do another well established 140.6. Should I sign up for IMFL 2015 and the appx 700 price tag, or the Great Floridian Triathlon 2015 which is only $250.00 (early sign up)

Is racing an Ironman branded race that much better? Has anybody else beaten themselves up over this?

Thanks for any response




Depends on what you are looking for. If you want crowds, hype, the whole nine yards you'll want a IM Florida. If you want a quality run race, don't mind less crowds, a much less crowded course and no drafting problems Great Floridian is your choice. I don't know the differences in course too much, but of all the independent Ironman races I have heard Florida is at the top with Beach to Battleship as well.

EDIT: Plus if anything were to happen in the next year where you cannot do the race or the full race, Floridian has way more options for changing distances, transfers for the following year, etc. IM Florida you are SOL.

Edited by bcagle25 2014-11-01 7:32 AM
2014-11-03 8:08 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman vs Iron Distance
Originally posted by bcagle25

Originally posted by michael08

Hoping that by writing down the war that is being waged by my head vs wallet, I might get advice from others who experienced the same thing. I am about to embark on the journey that is my first 140.6, and the first question is: Which race should I do? Should I do an Ironman Race, and the price tag that goes along with it, or should I do another well established 140.6. Should I sign up for IMFL 2015 and the appx 700 price tag, or the Great Floridian Triathlon 2015 which is only $250.00 (early sign up)

Is racing an Ironman branded race that much better? Has anybody else beaten themselves up over this?

Thanks for any response




Depends on what you are looking for. If you want crowds, hype, the whole nine yards you'll want a IM Florida. If you want a quality run race, don't mind less crowds, a much less crowded course and no drafting problems Great Floridian is your choice. I don't know the differences in course too much, but of all the independent Ironman races I have heard Florida is at the top with Beach to Battleship as well.

EDIT: Plus if anything were to happen in the next year where you cannot do the race or the full race, Floridian has way more options for changing distances, transfers for the following year, etc. IM Florida you are SOL.


I think bcagle25 hit it right on the head. Not much more to add. But dont pay the extra $500 just for the name, the same amount of work goes into completing both and the same amount of pride comes out of finishing both
2014-11-03 9:27 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman vs Iron Distance
Sorry to throw a curve ball in here, but I believe in Ironman the brand. Yes it's more expensive but look at it this way. After achieving your non ironman brand 140.6 you will spend the year or so explaining "I did an an Ironman, well not actually an ironman" it only carries half the weight. I've done both types of events. Unfortunately for my wallet I did Ironman first. The non ironman event just didn't measure up. I'm sure different events offer different things. With the non even it was like nobody really cared. Ironman spend a lot of your money on making sure everyone in the area is on board the streets are packed with cheering spectators. It's awesome. Didn't get that with the cheaper events. 140.6 is a bloody long way, the more moral support you can get the better. And. Are you officially an Ironman if you don't do an Ironman event?
2014-11-03 9:40 AM
in reply to: Maxwelltri

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Subject: RE: Ironman vs Iron Distance

Originally posted by Maxwelltri Are you officially an Ironman if you don't do an Ironman event?

Yes. Absolutely yes. This is brought up on occasion, and the overwhelming answer is yes you are an Ironman even if your race was non-WTC. No need to explain details to anyone. Trademark details are not relevant here. You did 140.6, you are an Ironman.

2014-11-03 10:18 AM
in reply to: michael08

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Subject: RE: Ironman vs Iron Distance

 Most of the Iron distance races I have done have been IM branded .. and yes they are brilliant.

But i would also add that one of the best Iron distance races - Challenge Roth - is not IM branded

 

 

 



2014-11-03 10:53 AM
in reply to: brucemorgan

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Subject: RE: Ironman vs Iron Distance

Originally posted by brucemorgan

Originally posted by Maxwelltri Are you officially an Ironman if you don't do an Ironman event?

Yes. Absolutely yes. This is brought up on occasion, and the overwhelming answer is yes you are an Ironman even if your race was non-WTC. No need to explain details to anyone. Trademark details are not relevant here. You did 140.6, you are an Ironman.

Yes Yes Yes.  There was the ironman distance long before there was the WTC trademark.

2014-11-03 11:39 AM
in reply to: michael08

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Subject: RE: Ironman vs Iron Distance

I've done one of each.  The 'vibe' at each race was decidedly different.  If you have done a 'big' race of any kind (oly, HIM, marathon, etc.) and a smaller, more 'low key', local kind of race of the same/similar distance, then you have probably already experienced some of this difference.  I like different aspects of each kind of 'vibe' and so had no problems doing an IM with 2,000 people and one with about 100.  I'd consider doing either type of event again and certainly don't feel that one carries only "half the weight".  It is, however, certain that one carries more than twice the cost.  Whether that cost is 'worth it', is a personal decision.  What are you looking for?  What do you expect?  Those are the kinds of questions you should ask yourself and see which event satisfies them.

2014-11-03 3:11 PM
in reply to: michael08

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Subject: RE: Ironman vs Iron Distance

Is it better?  That's a purely personal decision.

 

Is there more hoopla, bigger crowds, more participants, basically a "life experience" at WTC events?  Yes, most definitely.  That really is the WTC's bread and butter.  They sell the experience.  A quality independent 140.6 race is just as good of a product between the ropes, but you may not get the same "feel".  

 

Again it's all about what you want and what your expectations are going in.  I feel people tend to be less satisfied with non branded events because their expectations are out of whack going in.

2014-11-03 3:29 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman vs Iron Distance

What will it cost you to train for a year and prepare for an iron distance race?  
Running shoes
Tires/Tubes
Gym fees
Coaching if you choose
Training nutrition (we'll ignore meals for now)

What will it cost you to travel to Panama City Beach so you can race IMFL?
What will it cost you to travel to Clermont to race Great Floridian?
In both cases, you're looking at transportation, lodging, meals, etc.  

What is the difference in price to register for GF compared to IMFL?  

By the time you add up all of the costs, the difference in registration fees is relatively small.  

I just did my third (IMCdA, Vineman, Beach2Battleship) iron distance race and each was unique.  There is something to be said for the adrenaline of 2500 participants nervously waiting for the cannon to start their day.  Also for the finish line crowds.  Both reasons to sign up for an M-dot race.  There's also something to being able to ride a relatively draft-free bike course.  There's something to being able to park within 1/4 mile of transition (before and after a race).  There's something to be said for ocean versus lake swims.  

I haven't done either, but I've heard the GF bike course has constant rollers, which makes it a dramatically different ride than IMFL's flat but often windy bike course.  

Maybe this answers the economic issues.  You'll still have to decide for yourself what other race characteristics are important to you.  If you're already worried about "justifying" your race/M-dot tattoo, don't expect that to go away.  Yes, I did an M-dot as my first.  No, I still don't have a tattoo.  I didn't buy finisher gear at any of the three events.  Personally, I don't care what you call yourself once you've completed an iron distance race.  My personal preference is to pick a race that will be memorable rather than convenient, particularly for my "first."  

2014-11-03 3:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman vs Iron Distance

I've done three so far - one IM branded, one Challenge and one independent company.

I pick the race and not the packaging.  The course is what you see most of and IM 'The Brand' only comes into it's own at the finish line and in the apparel tent.

As others have said, it's about which parts of the offering matter to you.

For me it's all about the race and IM can fall down in that regard sometimes.  Usually a high proportion of first timers which means breast stroke, bad cycling etiquette and if it's a multi lap run there can be a lot of walkers which makes it harder to ignore that voice in your head telling you to walk!

I've entered Challenge Roth and Ironman Florida next year - both flattish bikes which suits how I train, a sea swim at florida which I'm hoping will mean my strong swim is worth more.  I entered Roth for the packaging too - I've heard too many times that the atmosphere around the race is incredible.

I couldn't disagree with the guy who said you have to explain yourself when asked if you haven't done and IM branded long distance triathlon.  That's a bit silly in my opinion.  The race lengths are the same - anything after that is chocolate buttons.

 



Edited by Dan-L 2014-11-03 3:40 PM


2014-11-03 4:20 PM
in reply to: McFuzz

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Subject: RE: Ironman vs Iron Distance

These are good things to think about/remember, but ...

Originally posted by McFuzz

What will it cost you to train for a year and prepare for an iron distance race?  
Running shoes
Tires/Tubes
Gym fees
Coaching if you choose
Training nutrition (we'll ignore meals for now)

... for things like these it would make a difference in some, but not others. Someone more like me races more short course now, but is going to train a lot regardless. These would not really change if an IM ever came into the plans.

What will it cost you to travel to Panama City Beach so you can race IMFL?
What will it cost you to travel to Clermont to race Great Floridian?
In both cases, you're looking at transportation, lodging, meals, etc.

 What is the difference in price to register for GF compared to IMFL?  

By the time you add up all of the costs, the difference in registration fees is relatively small. 

It was a $475 difference with the early pricing. GFT goes up incrementally, though IMFL just sold out general and is now $1,450 for a Foundation Slot, so it's whatever one wants to do with that.

In the overall scheme it might be small, but for some of us it does help to keep track of this as we would not just blow that off anywhere. Or might feel a little sting if unexpected expenses that big came up. This amount would also just about cover (or maybe entirely cover) my racing season this year of 5 tris, a duathlon, plus several run and swim events.

And not saying any of this is wrong, but rather bringing in other viewpoints for the OP to factor in.

2014-11-03 5:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman vs Iron Distance
I just went through this same process myself. What I came out with is go IM branded race for the first one, and then see from there. This is the most-often given advice from all the folks here locally that I talked to.

I think the reason why is just the "total package" from an IM branded race is a better deal to most folks, although lots of folks beg to differ on that point. But for me, and perhaps the average bear, I concluded the IM branded race is worth the extra initial expense.

Now, that being said, one thing I did notice was, like some have mentioned, you get a lot of "bucket list" people, just there to do an ironman event. There was a noticeable difference from the 70.3 IM race I did last year to the other distance tri's I did in my area to prepare. In the water, people went out like a bat out of hell, and then stopped, took a break, started another stroke, etc. This clogged things up quite a bit. I was jamming right along and got kicked in the face by some dude who just stopped, and then decided he needed to do a breast stroke the rest of the way (I suppose). On the bike, people again shot by me like a bat out of hell, only to blow up on the run. So pacing was definitely a big issue for these folks with little previous racing experience. The upshot of it all, I saw much better racing in local sprint and int'l distance events.

But it is what it is. There is something about a IM branded event. It transcends just being a triathlon, IMHO. That's why a lot of folks want to say they've done one. So with the good goes the bad.

For me personally, the challenge is just doing an Iron-distance event. This has been a dream of mine for some time. I have been working up to this point for 4 years. I signed up for IM Choo at Augusta and am just starting prep work.

Bottom line, I just want to finish and get that M-dot tattoo. Although some will say you don't deserve it for a down-current swim. Just goes to show you, there are many different opinions in this sport. For some not even an IM branded race is enough. If it isn't up to their standards, you're not an ironman, regardless.

Edited by NewDiz 2014-11-03 5:14 PM
2014-11-03 9:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman vs Iron Distance
I had this same decision last year.

My choice was IMTX or Redman (Ok City). I went with Redman based on cost and a friend at the gym who had done it.

For me it was the right choice. I loved it, not only was it less crowded, the people at the event were awesome. I am not saying that branded events don't have great people, but I felt a great spirit of community with the smaller race.

One additional thing in regards to cost to consider. IMTX required registration on Thursday, where Redman was Friday, which was an extra day of hotel. Also at IMTX they doubled the hotel rates race week. So IMTX would have been 3 nights at $250+ vs 2 nights at $110. The OKC hotel offered a discount for Redman. This is very site dependent, but check into it before making a choice based on price.

I may or may not do a branded event in the future, but have no regrets in my choice for my first.
2014-11-04 1:08 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman vs Iron Distance
I've done 3 IM distance races all WTC. All have been epic, and memorable...of course at a cost

The WTC cost is the $700 entry fee. You save a bit on lower cost races but the accommodations, airline , rental car, time off work, and misc costs are the same. So maybe you save like $ 400 overall doing a non-WTC race from out of the area.

If that is important to you, then go for it. I am sure there are good non-WTC races too, but I just haven't done them.

Yet, I would say the WTC races have been well run, and just amazing for me.

Edited by metafizx 2014-11-04 1:08 AM
2014-11-04 7:27 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman vs Iron Distance
Originally posted by Maxwelltri

Sorry to throw a curve ball in here, but I believe in Ironman the brand. Yes it's more expensive but look at it this way. After achieving your non ironman brand 140.6 you will spend the year or so explaining "I did an an Ironman, well not actually an ironman" it only carries half the weight. I've done both types of events. Unfortunately for my wallet I did Ironman first. The non ironman event just didn't measure up. I'm sure different events offer different things. With the non even it was like nobody really cared. Ironman spend a lot of your money on making sure everyone in the area is on board the streets are packed with cheering spectators. It's awesome. Didn't get that with the cheaper events. 140.6 is a bloody long way, the more moral support you can get the better. And. Are you officially an Ironman if you don't do an Ironman event?


Sorry but this is a bit ridiculous. So if I did one of Ironman 70.3 race am I an Ironman, because it was an Ironman branded event right?

Also, Ironman doesn't spend a lot of money to make sure "everyone is on board'. The streets are packed not because random people come to watch the race, but athletes brings large groups of family and friends to watch, if they had a race of 500-1000 you would see far less spectators. If you want to see a race having streets packed go check out Challenge Roth, where about 250,000 come out to watch, also a non-Ironman branded race.

What about the original 12 that did the Ironman back in '78 in Oahu? That was before the Ironman brand existed, are they considered Ironman finishers?

Edited by bcagle25 2014-11-04 7:33 AM


2014-11-04 9:15 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman vs Iron Distance

Originally posted by bcagle25What about the original 12 that did the Ironman back in '78 in Oahu? That was before the Ironman brand existed, are they considered Ironman finishers?

At the time, only the winner was given the title of the 'Ironman'.  No m-dot tats allowed for the others.

2014-11-04 2:21 PM
in reply to: Maxwelltri

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Subject: RE: Ironman vs Iron Distance
Originally posted by Maxwelltri

Sorry to throw a curve ball in here, but I believe in Ironman the brand. Yes it's more expensive but look at it this way. After achieving your non ironman brand 140.6 you will spend the year or so explaining "I did an an Ironman, well not actually an ironman" it only carries half the weight. I've done both types of events. Unfortunately for my wallet I did Ironman first. The non ironman event just didn't measure up. I'm sure different events offer different things. With the non even it was like nobody really cared. Ironman spend a lot of your money on making sure everyone in the area is on board the streets are packed with cheering spectators. It's awesome. Didn't get that with the cheaper events. 140.6 is a bloody long way, the more moral support you can get the better. And. Are you officially an Ironman if you don't do an Ironman event?


You may be overthinking this (crazy thought, for a triathlete!). I did one non-branded IM (B2B) and I don't think a single person cared that it was not branded...the response from friends and acquaintainces was overwhelmingly "wow, thats an amazing achievement" or "geez, you're nuts, I can't imagine doing that" but not a single "poor guy, all that training and you didn't even do an ironman race...what a fool". I've done several 70.3 races (IM brand and non) and there again, no-one cared about the branding, unless you are a triathlete fussing about it.

To the OP, as others have said, its a personal choice based on a variety of factors. I doubt you will feel cheapened when you cross the finish line of 140.6 and it is not tagged with a particular brand though. Unless that is one of the factors that is important to you :-)
2014-11-08 6:47 PM
in reply to: louiskie


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Subject: RE: Ironman vs Iron Distance
As the OP, I do appreciate all of the discussions and different points of view. I ended up registering for GFT, and feel really great about my decision, in part, due to the responses I read here. Thanks again.
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