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2014-11-13 1:15 PM

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Subject: confused about bikes
I trained and raced using a cruiser (Townie ) for my first sprint Tri 3 months ago. I would like to upgrade.

' don't want to repeat the post by BTuser "eclat404", but I have some questions:

-The bike course where I train usually has sands, rocks, gravel etc, can a tri bike handle this road condition?

-Do you train on a road bike then race on a tri bike?

-I went to http://www.ebicycles.com/bicycle-tools/frame-sizer/road-bikefor bike sizing. I'm short, according to this site, the best fit for me is a female bike 47cm frame and 165mm crank size. Any bike recommendations?

For the past few months, I checked craigslists/yard sale for a race bike, but so far, most bikes for sale are for tall people.






2014-11-13 1:29 PM
in reply to: Phebes


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Subject: RE: confused about bikes
If you have those road conditions for training only, your best bet is to buy a cyclocross bike and a second wheelset for actual road surfaces that you can swap come raceday. Even with the more aggressive CX tires you can still up the air pressure and move along quite well on the road. Different geometry but workable for less than HIM.
2014-11-13 4:15 PM
in reply to: Phebes


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Subject: RE: confused about bikes
Isn't a tri bike the same as a road bike with aero bars?

I would be curious to hear other's opinion. Personally I ride my road bike in gravel roads when I need to, I hit occasional bumps when I am bad lucky and such. I think it is much more solid then people would have you believe. I would also believe that knowing your bike before the race is also an advantage.

My experience with road bikes is relatively new so take it for what it is worth.

Just to clarify, when you say rock, sand and gravel, you mean dirt on the road or trail biking? There is a difference between having sand on a street and navigating a sand pit...
2014-11-13 6:47 PM
in reply to: Antoine tri

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Groton, New York
Subject: RE: confused about bikes
Originally posted by Antoine tri

Isn't a tri bike the same as a road bike with aero bars?




The geometry is all different. A triathlon specific bike shifts the body towards the handlebars while opening up the space between the rib-cage and your legs when they are at the top of the pedal stroke. While you can use aero bars on a regular road bike, there is only so much you can adjust to get the same results. Typically, you will find you are closing the space between your legs and your ribs when you are in an aero position using aero bars on a standard road bike.
2014-11-13 7:15 PM
in reply to: keqwow

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Northern IL
Subject: RE: confused about bikes

Originally posted by keqwow
Originally posted by Antoine tri Isn't a tri bike the same as a road bike with aero bars?
The geometry is all different. A triathlon specific bike shifts the body towards the handlebars while opening up the space between the rib-cage and your legs when they are at the top of the pedal stroke. While you can use aero bars on a regular road bike, there is only so much you can adjust to get the same results. Typically, you will find you are closing the space between your legs and your ribs when you are in an aero position using aero bars on a standard road bike.

The amount of space *should* be about the same on either bike, but the tri bike is intended to be more forward with it. As in the position of the saddle in relation to the bottom bracket will be farther forward so the rider can rotate the position around that bottom bracket more for better aerodynamics as the torso should be flatter. The tri bike is meant to go forward rather fast and isn't going to maneuver quite as well as the road bike. The design of the front end (the entire fork area) is to help keep the rider more steady with different fork angles and positioning of the wheel. You can track pretty well with the smaller adjustments, but won't be able to dive into corners as quite aggressively as with a road bike, for example. The front end can have a tendency to feel it may flop over at some point. A decent rider will still do well enough with this that it's really not a big deal. Fairly simple to pick up if you can already ride something well.

2014-11-14 9:47 AM
in reply to: Antoine tri

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Subject: RE: confused about bikes
Originally posted by Antoine tri

Just to clarify, when you say rock, sand and gravel, you mean dirt on the road or trail biking? There is a difference between having sand on a street and navigating a sand pit...


Where I live, a little rain, wind or even snow produces piles of rocks, sands , gravel on the road. I have been living here for 4 yrs now and I have not seen road sweeper sweep bike lanes.

' will definitely study about bikes before buying one, since I don't have space in my garage to accumulate tri toys


2014-11-14 10:47 AM
in reply to: Phebes

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Subject: RE: confused about bikes

 

If you truly can't avoid riding on rocks, sand, gravel, then a TT bike is going to be a bad idea IMO. There is so much weight on the front end that the front tire tends to just dig in to anything softer than asphalt. Yes it can be done by riding on the bullhorns, but then you are defeating the purpose of the TT bike. If the road conditions are really that bad I agree with the idea of a cyclocross bike. It is very similar to a road bike but can accommodate bigger/wider tires. You can always swap regular road tires onto a cross bike for races. A cross bike can be just as fast as a regular road bike with the right tire setup. Given your conditions I think the cross bike would serve you well unless you want to get started on a big bike collection, in which case you need road, cross, TT, MTB, etc.  

2014-11-14 11:57 AM
in reply to: Phebes

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Albuquerque, New Mexico
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Subject: RE: confused about bikes

Are you riding on paved roads (asphalt or concrete) with some debris (sand, gravel, etc) on top, or on sand and gravel surfaces?  Is it constant or the occasional patch of loose debris?  

An experienced rider on a tri bike can handle loose debris on paved roads, but it usually means holding steady or getting out of aero and sitting up with your hands on the bull bars.  Riding a road bike with your hands over the hoods is a lot more foregiving than an aero position and you wouldn't be switching back and forth between aero and not.  

Wheel clearances are often larger on road bikes because aerodynamics aren't as important when riding in a group.  If you pick up anything in the tire of a tri bike where clearances are minimal, you'll scratch the frame, cut the tire, or lock up the wheel.  You probably couldn't put a heavier/wider tire on a tri bike without it interfering.  

Either way, get a set of bulletproof tires.  I have Continental Gatorskins but have also ridden Bontrager Hardcases.  I don't like to fix flat tires.  

2014-11-14 5:25 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: confused about bikes
Originally posted by McFuzz

Are you riding on paved roads (asphalt or concrete) with some debris (sand, gravel, etc) on top, or on sand and gravel surfaces?  Is it constant or the occasional patch of loose debris?  

An experienced rider on a tri bike can handle loose debris on paved roads, but it usually means holding steady or getting out of aero and sitting up with your hands on the bull bars.  Riding a road bike with your hands over the hoods is a lot more foregiving than an aero position and you wouldn't be switching back and forth between aero and not.  

Wheel clearances are often larger on road bikes because aerodynamics aren't as important when riding in a group.  If you pick up anything in the tire of a tri bike where clearances are minimal, you'll scratch the frame, cut the tire, or lock up the wheel.  You probably couldn't put a heavier/wider tire on a tri bike without it interfering.  

Either way, get a set of bulletproof tires.  I have Continental Gatorskins but have also ridden Bontrager Hardcases.  I don't like to fix flat tires.  




So I need practice on riding tri bikes on the debris on the road, they are not constant but I have to watch the road. 'tons of goat heads too even on pave roads

Edited by Phebes 2014-11-14 5:27 PM
2014-11-14 9:44 PM
in reply to: Phebes

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Subject: RE: confused about bikes
Are there any good trails in your area? I haven't put many miles on my road bike in the last year but I've done a lot of commuting and trail riding on my mountain bike. Riding on trails is great for bike handling skills and it's definitely possible to get a good workout. Speed on race day is an important consideration but fun and versatility on the other 360 days of the year are also worth considering. You can use skinny tires for a little more speed on race day. Or maybe you'll fall in love with trails and race Xterra.

I don't know much about cyclocross but that sounds like an interesting idea as well.
Don
2014-11-15 3:54 PM
in reply to: donw

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Subject: RE: confused about bikes
Originally posted by donw

Are there any good trails in your area? I haven't put many miles on my road bike in the last year but I've done a lot of commuting and trail riding on my mountain bike. Riding on trails is great for bike handling skills and it's definitely possible to get a good workout. Speed on race day is an important consideration but fun and versatility on the other 360 days of the year are also worth considering. You can use skinny tires for a little more speed on race day. Or maybe you'll fall in love with trails and race Xterra.

I don't know much about cyclocross but that sounds like an interesting idea as well.
Don


Lot's of beautiful trails here. My husband bike trails all the time.

I read here in BT that some BTers were mountain bikers before getting into tri bike/race. They said that riding trails help them to improve bike handling skills.


2014-11-17 9:14 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: confused about bikes
Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by keqwow
Originally posted by Antoine tri Isn't a tri bike the same as a road bike with aero bars?
The geometry is all different. A triathlon specific bike shifts the body towards the handlebars while opening up the space between the rib-cage and your legs when they are at the top of the pedal stroke. While you can use aero bars on a regular road bike, there is only so much you can adjust to get the same results. Typically, you will find you are closing the space between your legs and your ribs when you are in an aero position using aero bars on a standard road bike.

The amount of space *should* be about the same on either bike, but the tri bike is intended to be more forward with it. As in the position of the saddle in relation to the bottom bracket will be farther forward so the rider can rotate the position around that bottom bracket more for better aerodynamics as the torso should be flatter. The tri bike is meant to go forward rather fast and isn't going to maneuver quite as well as the road bike. The design of the front end (the entire fork area) is to help keep the rider more steady with different fork angles and positioning of the wheel. You can track pretty well with the smaller adjustments, but won't be able to dive into corners as quite aggressively as with a road bike, for example. The front end can have a tendency to feel it may flop over at some point. A decent rider will still do well enough with this that it's really not a big deal. Fairly simple to pick up if you can already ride something well.




Do you mean that the only difference between a road bike and a tri bike is that a tri bike is more comfy in aero position than a road bike, but in terms of speed performance, the are the same?

Could you add/replace any of these bikes with elbow rest handle bars?

Edited by Phebes 2014-11-17 9:33 AM
2014-11-17 9:39 AM
in reply to: Phebes

Master
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Northern IL
Subject: RE: confused about bikes

Originally posted by Phebes
Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by keqwow
Originally posted by Antoine tri Isn't a tri bike the same as a road bike with aero bars?
The geometry is all different. A triathlon specific bike shifts the body towards the handlebars while opening up the space between the rib-cage and your legs when they are at the top of the pedal stroke. While you can use aero bars on a regular road bike, there is only so much you can adjust to get the same results. Typically, you will find you are closing the space between your legs and your ribs when you are in an aero position using aero bars on a standard road bike.

The amount of space *should* be about the same on either bike, but the tri bike is intended to be more forward with it. As in the position of the saddle in relation to the bottom bracket will be farther forward so the rider can rotate the position around that bottom bracket more for better aerodynamics as the torso should be flatter. The tri bike is meant to go forward rather fast and isn't going to maneuver quite as well as the road bike. The design of the front end (the entire fork area) is to help keep the rider more steady with different fork angles and positioning of the wheel. You can track pretty well with the smaller adjustments, but won't be able to dive into corners as quite aggressively as with a road bike, for example. The front end can have a tendency to feel it may flop over at some point. A decent rider will still do well enough with this that it's really not a big deal. Fairly simple to pick up if you can already ride something well.

Do you mean that the only difference between a road bike and a tri bike is that a tri bike is more comfy in aero position than a road bike, but in terms of speed performance, the are the same?

Different view of this, really. Comfort is more a function of the fitting process than either of these two bike types. Both types can be set up so one can ride for a long time in them. The advantage of the tri bike is that a comfortable position could also be quite a bit more aerodynamic than that of the road position so the rider can go faster more easily.

I had noted about the handling aspects too, perhaps this is where you thought the speed performance is the same? Going fairly straight ahead the tri bike will outrun the road bike due to the aerodynamic advantage.

2014-11-17 10:57 AM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: confused about bikes
There is a new type of bike that companies are coming out with more often now that seems to fit your description perfectly. They are called gravel bikes. They tend to have the same geometry as an endurance road bike, but with more space between the stays and tubes to allow for a larger tire. You could run a 38mm tire for training, then swap to a 23 or 25 for race days. Changing to smaller tires for races will also benefit you a lot because you will be used to training with a lot more rotating weight, then be a little faster during races when reducing the weight with smaller tires.

If you are in the market for a new bike, I'd look into these.
2014-11-17 3:14 PM
in reply to: Phebes

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Champion
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Albuquerque, New Mexico
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Subject: RE: confused about bikes

Originally posted by Phebes
Originally posted by McFuzz

Are you riding on paved roads (asphalt or concrete) with some debris (sand, gravel, etc) on top, or on sand and gravel surfaces?  Is it constant or the occasional patch of loose debris?  

An experienced rider on a tri bike can handle loose debris on paved roads, but it usually means holding steady or getting out of aero and sitting up with your hands on the bull bars.  Riding a road bike with your hands over the hoods is a lot more foregiving than an aero position and you wouldn't be switching back and forth between aero and not.  

Wheel clearances are often larger on road bikes because aerodynamics aren't as important when riding in a group.  If you pick up anything in the tire of a tri bike where clearances are minimal, you'll scratch the frame, cut the tire, or lock up the wheel.  You probably couldn't put a heavier/wider tire on a tri bike without it interfering.  

Either way, get a set of bulletproof tires.  I have Continental Gatorskins but have also ridden Bontrager Hardcases.  I don't like to fix flat tires.  

So I need practice on riding tri bikes on the debris on the road, they are not constant but I have to watch the road. 'tons of goat heads too even on pave roads

Um...NO!!!  Practice riding your (tri)bike on clear, dry roads and build some confidence for those occasions when you hit a puddle or debris.  And you can get much of the aero benefit by adding clip-on aerobars to a road bike.  No, it isn't exactly the same, but you can get some experience and confidence for an $80 investment before you spend $1500.  

When you ride in an aero position (on a road bike or tri bike)
1)  You have more weight on the front wheel because you are leaned over
(The bike is more likely to plow ahead or sink down into deep debris.  The rear is more likely to slide out.  Correcting when these things occur takes practice.)  
2)  Your steering inputs besides leaning start with your elbows/forearms on the pads.  
2a)  The pads are closer to the head tube, so small movements produce larger steering results than when your hands are on the hoods of a road bike.  
2b)  You are steering with your elbows, so your fine motor skills are less precise, especially since they're supporting a larger percentage of your torso weight.  .  
3)  You crane your neck a lot more to look ahead (when you aren't craning, you may not see what is coming as early and therefore need to react quicker).  
4)  Your hands are not on the brakes.  
(Very few setups have brake levers on the aerobars.  Tri-bikes have shifters on them.  Road bikes with clip-on aerobars have neither.  You have to move between aero and not-aero to brake, which is why I rarely ride in an aero position if the traffic is heavy or if I worry about traction)  

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