Z2 base - does running contribute to cycling base development?

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2014-12-12 8:40 AM


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Subject: Z2 base - does running contribute to cycling base development?
Due to time and family commitments, I find it difficult to fit 2+ hour z2 base rides in for cycling. I can fit in 1 hour on the turbo. This is mainly because I don't really enjoy cycling for that long amongst rush hour traffic. However, for running this us not an issue, and I'm able to do a 90 min-2 hour z2 run once a week. From what I've read these base miles in z2 hr develop the aerobic system and build more capillary pathways. So my question is: will the long run build these pathways that can be utilised for cycling too without doing long rides? I'm also fitting in a 1 hour z2 swim a week too.

I'm competing in sprints and oly distance. Fitting in the intervals and speed work etc...is not a problem.

My pbs for cycling and running are

10m tt - 24mins
25m tt - 1:04
5k run - 20 mins
10k - 43 mins

Any comments or experiences will be appreciated - thanks!

2014-12-12 8:54 AM
in reply to: KETri

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Subject: RE: Z2 base - does running contribute to cycling base development?
For someone with a solid fitness base, there is little cross over between the two sports. While there may be some slight benefits, they will be very small compared to what you would gain from doing the specific activity.

Having said that, being able to do the hard cycling workouts is going to be aerobic capacity and many solid training programs will focus on lots of intensity on the bike during the winter months to build functional threshold power and then use the nicer weather in the spring to start including longer rides at a more moderate intensity. So I would keep doing what you are doing with the harder rides and easier running, especially this time of year.

Shane
2014-12-12 10:21 AM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: Z2 base - does running contribute to cycling base development?
Originally posted by gsmacleod

For someone with a solid fitness base, there is little cross over between the two sports. While there may be some slight benefits, they will be very small compared to what you would gain from doing the specific activity.

Having said that, being able to do the hard cycling workouts is going to be aerobic capacity and many solid training programs will focus on lots of intensity on the bike during the winter months to build functional threshold power and then use the nicer weather in the spring to start including longer rides at a more moderate intensity. So I would keep doing what you are doing with the harder rides and easier running, especially this time of year.

Shane


My own experience is that there is actually a decent amount of crossover (either that or my "trained" cycling fitness is hopeless!). A few years ago I ran exclusively for about 3 months, after the previous triathlon season. I might have ridden to work a few times during that period but nothing that would really count as training. I was very surprised to hop on the bike soon after my big running block and be able to maintain about the same pace as the previous summer. It wasn't a long ride (20 or 30 miles from what I remember) but I was pleasantly surprised. A friend who did the same thing (run focus) had a very similar experience.

I think there is a lot more to it though than "yes, there is" or "no, there isn't". As gsmacleod noted, some of it depends on your fitness base, what you are training for, etc. Would be a very nice dissertation topic for some aspiring grad student though...
2014-12-12 11:20 AM
in reply to: louiskie

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Subject: RE: Z2 base - does running contribute to cycling base development?
Originally posted by louiskie

My own experience is that there is actually a decent amount of crossover (either that or my "trained" cycling fitness is hopeless!). A few years ago I ran exclusively for about 3 months, after the previous triathlon season. I might have ridden to work a few times during that period but nothing that would really count as training. I was very surprised to hop on the bike soon after my big running block and be able to maintain about the same pace as the previous summer. It wasn't a long ride (20 or 30 miles from what I remember) but I was pleasantly surprised. A friend who did the same thing (run focus) had a very similar experience.

I think there is a lot more to it though than "yes, there is" or "no, there isn't". As gsmacleod noted, some of it depends on your fitness base, what you are training for, etc. Would be a very nice dissertation topic for some aspiring grad student though...


I would suggest that what you observed is not really cross-over (in terms of improvement) but that doing lots of running helped slow the decline of cycling fitness. Perhaps that's simply semantics but I think when most are thinking of cross-over benefit they are hoping to improve in the other sport and it generally doesn't work that way IME.

Another point to bear in mind, because of the nature of cycling, one can lose a fair amount of cycling fitness and only see a small drop in average speed due to how aerodynamic drag increases. For example, from Analytic Cycling (http://www.analyticcycling.com/ForcesSpeed_Page.html), taking the default inputs and changing the slope to zero gives:

250W - 11.2m/s (40.3km/h)
225W - 10.8m/s (38.9km/h)

So a detraining of 10% results in only 0.5m/s difference in speed on the road.

Shane
2014-12-12 12:33 PM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: Z2 base - does running contribute to cycling base development?

Oh snap...analytic cycling page is back up!!!!

2014-12-12 12:34 PM
in reply to: KETri


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Subject: RE: Z2 base - does running contribute to cycling base development?

I think you'll be totally fine for sprint/oly, if you are able to do the hi-intensity short bike stuff.

 

I have definitely found that running long distances does x-over a fair amount to cycling, unless you're shooting for cycling levels that took you a lot of hard cycling work to get to. For z2 type aerobic long cycling, if you're running long, it definitely helps a lot. If you compare comparably good pure swimmers vs pure runners who then start cycling, assuming equal talent in cycling, the runners will significantly outperform the swimmers, due to the leg x-over training. 

 

That said, to really sharpen the bike, of course, nothing beats specificity, but I do think you will be able to get the main benefits for sprint/oly by doing those hard/short bike workout sessions on top of the running. 

 

I pretty much did what you did a few years ago when due to a lot of time constraints, I really limited bike volume, but did Sufferfest all-out 1x/wk. My Oly bike split was my best ever, even better than when I did almost double the bike volume for a HIM later on but didn't go as hard on the interval days. (I would have had a hard time biking a fast 56mi then running HM on that limited bike training volume, though.)

 

2014-12-12 12:45 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: Z2 base - does running contribute to cycling base development?
Originally posted by Jason N

Oh snap...analytic cycling page is back up!!!!




It didn't work when I typed in the address

But searching via Google and following the link did

Shane
2014-12-12 12:56 PM
in reply to: #5074120


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Subject: RE: Z2 base - does running contribute to cycling base development?
Thanks for the replies.

I have read that 1 hour on the turbo is the same as 2 on the road - given the fact that it's continuous spinning on the turbo and on the road you stop at lights and can freewheel down hill etc... Is this the case? Will I see enough of a benefit in z2 base with an hour of it on turbo once or twice a week?
2014-12-12 1:02 PM
in reply to: KETri

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Subject: RE: Z2 base - does running contribute to cycling base development?

No, don't monkey around with conversions like that. Just look at the quality of the ride. Leave an hour as an hour and look at what you did during that time.

And with only that much riding, can you ride those harder? If you've already been riding the bike there isn't really anything that develops at Z2 that Z4 doesn't also do at least as well. You just can't ride as for as much in Z4, but it shouldn't be *that* hard to include it with yours. All I can think of is if the harder riding may interfere if you're doing heavier swim and/or run work now?

2014-12-13 2:02 AM
in reply to: #5074230


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Subject: RE: Z2 base - does running contribute to cycling base development?
I'm getting in a couple of workouts a week for each sport that are z4 and vo2 max focused - long runs and swims are okay to fit in too. The only thing I can't get in is long slow rides that are longer than an hour. But as someone said earlier, maybe I don't need them and come the better and lighter weather I could up it then.

My speed is improving all round in all three sports though.
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