BT Development Mentor Program Archives » Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN) Rss Feed  
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2015-02-07 7:29 AM
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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
Hi everyone..
I have a question about indoor cycle training. Living in the northeast I am relegated to indoor training until we melt away to spring here.
I have been using Keiser spin bike at my gym. Using then both on my own at at time in spin classes. I was wondering if anyone is familiar with these bikes? If so I have two questions :
First does the mileage actually mean anything. Per the website the bike counts 1.0 for every 200rotations of the crank arm. This seems to be regardless of gearing. Thus if at the end of a time period do you believe I can take that final number as actual road miles traveled?
Second question.. In my training plan there are long rides about once week. These are time based.. maybe 120-150 minutes. I do these in my zone two heart rate but my question is am I pushing enough. Is wattage the measure I sure be using and if so what should I be aiming for on a longer base building endurance type ride. Currently when I stay in zone 1-2 the bike is telling me the wattage is average about 95-100 w. The perceived exertion to me seems minimal. Other then torturous boredom of being on trainer for two hours I am not sure I feel like it was a significant workout... Should I?
I just want to be sure my two hours are being spent in the most productive way possible... and I am not just spinning my wheels... No pun intended!
Bill


2015-02-07 10:15 AM
in reply to: jhupcom

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
Hi Jim and everyone!
I never had experience with the mentor group, please be patient with me!

NAME: GennadiyValerievichBaturin (yes, this is my real name), but you can call me tirg.

STORY: I’m a 48 year old, started triathlons 4 years ago with some sprints and olympics, then tried Half several times. I realized that I like longer distances more.

FAMILY STATUS: Married, four children, all boys

CURRENT TRAINING: Trying to keep up my fitness level to start training plan in April

2014 RACE: I have chosen to dedicate my training to my first IM last year, and it worked more or less ok. I have finished the IM distance, but got injured muscle on the bike and my overall time of 14 something hours did not make me very happy.
Also, after the recovery I trained for Half marathon and ran for my PB.

2015 RACES: I will try to do IM again this year. Maybe local marathon.

Will you mentor me?

2015-02-08 10:09 AM
in reply to: #5091405

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
Hi Trig, welcome

I ran 39:30 in the 10k today! Really surprised. I also paced it well, contrary to normal footraces. It was deadflat but the first 2k were headwind, so i drafted a little off of others (perhaps more mentally than physically) and kept it steady toward the turnaround. Then the final 2k I let er rip and passed so many people (they had started the 5k 10 minutes after the 10k, so I was overtaking the slower 5k folks, this definitely helped mentally). Now I'm secretly scheming to go 1:26-1:27 in the half mary in 4 weeks. What do the seasoned runners think? I still think the longer distance suits me better.
2015-02-08 10:17 AM
in reply to: Snaaijer

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)

Originally posted by Snaaijer Hi Trig, welcome I ran 39:30 in the 10k today! Really surprised. I also paced it well, contrary to normal footraces. It was deadflat but the first 2k were headwind, so i drafted a little off of others (perhaps more mentally than physically) and kept it steady toward the turnaround. Then the final 2k I let er rip and passed so many people (they had started the 5k 10 minutes after the 10k, so I was overtaking the slower 5k folks, this definitely helped mentally). Now I'm secretly scheming to go 1:26-1:27 in the half mary in 4 weeks. What do the seasoned runners think? I still think the longer distance suits me better.

Nice, Thomas! Way to go! Passing people in the second half of a race who sped off in front of you in the beginning is one of my favorite things in life! The half marathon has been a persistent nemesis for me, so I won't offer any pacing advice. I'm running one in March and hoping to finally go sub-90 then.

2015-02-08 11:10 AM
in reply to: Snaaijer

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
Originally posted by Snaaijer

Now I'm secretly scheming to go 1:26-1:27 in the half mary in 4 weeks. What do the seasoned runners think? I still think the longer distance suits me better.


I think you'll come close as long as you're trained for the distance, race conditions are ideal, and you are well tapered. I would guess under those conditions you could hit around a 1:28. The mental component is HUGE, though. You can easily shave off - or add quite a bit of time - depending on your willpower and focus. Good luck - I'll be cheering for you!
2015-02-08 4:31 PM
in reply to: Sarah73

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)

Originally posted by Sarah73 .... could everyone please post their a, b, and c races for the year and I'll compile a calendar each week of upcoming races so we can be sure to cheer each other on.

Race A:  HITS Marble Falls Triathlon April 25, 2015 (70.3)

Race B:  TBA

Race C: TBA



2015-02-08 5:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)

Originally posted by Snaaijer Now I'm secretly scheming to go 1:26-1:27 in the half mary in 4 weeks. What do the seasoned runners think? I still think the longer distance suits me better.

I have used 4-5 "pace calculators" to see where I should be for longer races based on results from shorter races.  Most of them say that I should be running marathons in about 2 hrs and 40 minutes and I have never even broken 3 hours so I don't trust most of them.  I do however like Jeff Galloway's Magic Mile Calculator.  http://www.jeffgalloway.com/training/magic-mile/

Based on your 10K time it puts your half marathon predicted time at 1:27:34.  A goal for something between 1:26:00 and 1:27:00 is right where it should be.  It will push you but is well within your grasps. 

 



Edited by BlueBoy26 2015-02-08 5:05 PM
2015-02-08 8:13 PM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
Originally posted by BlueBoy26

Originally posted by Snaaijer Now I'm secretly scheming to go 1:26-1:27 in the half mary in 4 weeks. What do the seasoned runners think? I still think the longer distance suits me better.

I have used 4-5 "pace calculators" to see where I should be for longer races based on results from shorter races.  Most of them say that I should be running marathons in about 2 hrs and 40 minutes and I have never even broken 3 hours so I don't trust most of them.  I do however like Jeff Galloway's Magic Mile Calculator.  http://www.jeffgalloway.com/training/magic-mile/

Based on your 10K time it puts your half marathon predicted time at 1:27:34.  A goal for something between 1:26:00 and 1:27:00 is right where it should be.  It will push you but is well within your grasps. 

 




Does anyone have any imput on the Garmin race predictors? From what I've seen, a few people have said they are pretty good. I also understand it is an "ideal" race situation type thing.
I finally found mine yesterday and my times are pretty generous for me, pretty much my pre-baby PRs, which I didn't think I was anywhere near at this point. But I ran a 5k today and did much better than I expected to do. I did a tough run (snow covered roads) yesterday and the roads today were snow covered and slippery. I still did better than I would have expected to do on a good day. With the better conditions I feel like I could get a lot closer to those predictions than I thought. I'm pretty excited.
2015-02-08 8:20 PM
in reply to: trig

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)

Originally posted by trig Hi Jim and everyone! I never had experience with the mentor group, please be patient with me! NAME: GennadiyValerievichBaturin (yes, this is my real name), but you can call me tirg. STORY: I’m a 48 year old, started triathlons 4 years ago with some sprints and olympics, then tried Half several times. I realized that I like longer distances more. FAMILY STATUS: Married, four children, all boys CURRENT TRAINING: Trying to keep up my fitness level to start training plan in April 2014 RACE: I have chosen to dedicate my training to my first IM last year, and it worked more or less ok. I have finished the IM distance, but got injured muscle on the bike and my overall time of 14 something hours did not make me very happy. Also, after the recovery I trained for Half marathon and ran for my PB. 2015 RACES: I will try to do IM again this year. Maybe local marathon. Will you mentor me?

Hi Tirg, you are more than welcome to join our group!

2015-02-08 8:27 PM
in reply to: jhupcom

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)

Originally posted by jhupcom Hi everyone.. I have a question about indoor cycle training. Living in the northeast I am relegated to indoor training until we melt away to spring here. I have been using Keiser spin bike at my gym. Using then both on my own at at time in spin classes. I was wondering if anyone is familiar with these bikes? If so I have two questions : First does the mileage actually mean anything. Per the website the bike counts 1.0 for every 200rotations of the crank arm. This seems to be regardless of gearing. Thus if at the end of a time period do you believe I can take that final number as actual road miles traveled? Second question.. In my training plan there are long rides about once week. These are time based.. maybe 120-150 minutes. I do these in my zone two heart rate but my question is am I pushing enough. Is wattage the measure I sure be using and if so what should I be aiming for on a longer base building endurance type ride. Currently when I stay in zone 1-2 the bike is telling me the wattage is average about 95-100 w. The perceived exertion to me seems minimal. Other then torturous boredom of being on trainer for two hours I am not sure I feel like it was a significant workout... Should I? I just want to be sure my two hours are being spent in the most productive way possible... and I am not just spinning my wheels... No pun intended! Bill

Bill, I'm not familiar with those bikes so I can't really comment on the accuracy of the actual mileage if you divide the total rotations by 200 to get miles.  Not sure how it can be that regardless of gearing 200 rotations equals a mile.  I would base your progress on time.  For your longer workouts, if you are in reasonable shape, 2+ hours at such low wattage should not feel like a significant workout.  However, its hard to say for sure because we don't know what your functional threshold power/critical power is at this point.  That would give you a better idea of the intensity of 95-100 watts. 

2015-02-08 8:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)

Well, I went through the MRI process for my shoulder last Wed and went to the doctor on Friday to go over the results.  He barely even had the door closed and hadn't even sat down yet before blurting out "yeah, you've got a complete tear of the labrum".  The labrum is essentially fibrous tissue around the ball and socket joint of the shoulder.  I asked whether rehab alone would suffice and he wasn't very encouraging on that strategy and he recommended surgery.  Nice.  Due to my schedule and schedules of a couple surgeons I can't even get a consultation until March 2 so I'm guessing surgery will be in mid-March.  I've got a 50km x-c ski marathon in 2 weeks that I am definitely not going to miss (this will be my 18th year of doing that race) so I will see how I do with one good arm.  Its gonna be tough but I simply am not going to NOT do it.  This puts racing IM Couer d'Alene in June in jeopardy and I will have to wait and see.  I purchased the cancellation insurance (first time doing that ironically) so I assume that surgery would be a valid excuse to ask for the refund.  Luckily I can still run and ride the computrainer so its not a total loss but swimming is out for a while.  Recovery is supposed to be 6 weeks post-surgery and full recovery in 3-4 months.



Edited by Birkierunner 2015-02-08 8:36 PM


2015-02-08 8:42 PM
in reply to: Snaaijer

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
Originally posted by Snaaijer

Hi Trig, welcome

I ran 39:30 in the 10k today! Really surprised. I also paced it well, contrary to normal footraces. It was deadflat but the first 2k were headwind, so i drafted a little off of others (perhaps more mentally than physically) and kept it steady toward the turnaround. Then the final 2k I let er rip and passed so many people (they had started the 5k 10 minutes after the 10k, so I was overtaking the slower 5k folks, this definitely helped mentally). Now I'm secretly scheming to go 1:26-1:27 in the half mary in 4 weeks. What do the seasoned runners think? I still think the longer distance suits me better.


Awesome job, congrats. Not a seasoned runner and you are faster than me so take with a grain of salt but I would just use the same strategy for the half. Go out at a pace that would let allow you go below 1:27. Say 6:45 for the first 5-6 miles. If you feel good and conditions are right, negative split around 6:30 for the second half.
2015-02-08 8:48 PM
in reply to: Snaaijer

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)

Originally posted by Snaaijer Hi Trig, welcome I ran 39:30 in the 10k today! Really surprised. I also paced it well, contrary to normal footraces. It was deadflat but the first 2k were headwind, so i drafted a little off of others (perhaps more mentally than physically) and kept it steady toward the turnaround. Then the final 2k I let er rip and passed so many people (they had started the 5k 10 minutes after the 10k, so I was overtaking the slower 5k folks, this definitely helped mentally). Now I'm secretly scheming to go 1:26-1:27 in the half mary in 4 weeks. What do the seasoned runners think? I still think the longer distance suits me better.

Based on Daniels' VDOT tables a 39:30 10k time would translate to roughly a 1:27:04 half marathon time so (as others have also stated) your goal for your race in a month is very realistic.  But those tables assume that your are adequately preparing to race the distance you are targeting.  Too many people run a short race, look up their VDOT and assume they can run the corresponding times for longer races for that VDOT.  

I have always favored an even split strategy for longer races.  I personally think a negative split strategy is risky and requires the person be very aware of their own capabilities which requires a lot of experience and practice in training.  I'd rather train for an even pace and maintain that pace for the duration. 

2015-02-09 2:27 PM
in reply to: Birkierunner

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
Jim, sorry to hear about the complications... Sucks that you might have to forfeit your IM. And I can fully understand wanting to do the xc ski, of course I hope you won't exacerbate the issue

Sonya: are those the predictors that are on some of the newer Garmin watches? If so I have a slightly older one so can't comment. If they're on Garmin Connect, then I haven't seen that feature yet.

Thanks for everyone's input regarding pacing. I definitely feel like I'm well trained for the distance. I will see where it goes the next three weeks in training, mixing some long runs with marathon and half marathon paced progression.
2015-02-09 5:44 PM
in reply to: Sarah73

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
Oh and Sarah for your group-race-list (thanks for making one!)

A race: Ironman Switzerland, July 19
B races: City-Pier-City Loop, Half Marathon, March 8, Triathlon Nieuwkoop (70.3) May 31
C races: Bosbaan Triathlon (sprint) May 9, Triathlon Klazienaveen (70.3) August 23

Might do some swim races or relay-tri's, those will probably be C races
2015-02-09 9:00 PM
in reply to: Birkierunner

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
Finally catching up after some long hours at work. I have shoulder impingement too and am trying not to get a cortisone shot. How horrible was it and how long do you have to be off swimming? It is not always irritated, but can get bad with fly and breast, so I try not to do too much of those.


2015-02-09 9:08 PM
in reply to: Sarah73

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
Races
A: Chi Town Half Marathon (April 4), Muncie 70.3 (July 11), IMWI (Sept 13)
B: TTT, Steelhead 70.3
2015-02-09 9:13 PM
in reply to: Birkierunner

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
Oh Jim, that really sucks about your shoulder. I hope you can get it fixed and healed quickly. There is always duathlons if you are unable to get you swim back right away, or relays.
2015-02-09 9:29 PM
in reply to: Birkierunner

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)

Originally posted by Birkierunner

Well, I went through the MRI process for my shoulder last Wed and went to the doctor on Friday to go over the results.  He barely even had the door closed and hadn't even sat down yet before blurting out "yeah, you've got a complete tear of the labrum".  The labrum is essentially fibrous tissue around the ball and socket joint of the shoulder.  I asked whether rehab alone would suffice and he wasn't very encouraging on that strategy and he recommended surgery.  Nice.  Due to my schedule and schedules of a couple surgeons I can't even get a consultation until March 2 so I'm guessing surgery will be in mid-March.  I've got a 50km x-c ski marathon in 2 weeks that I am definitely not going to miss (this will be my 18th year of doing that race) so I will see how I do with one good arm.  Its gonna be tough but I simply am not going to NOT do it.  This puts racing IM Couer d'Alene in June in jeopardy and I will have to wait and see.  I purchased the cancellation insurance (first time doing that ironically) so I assume that surgery would be a valid excuse to ask for the refund.  Luckily I can still run and ride the computrainer so its not a total loss but swimming is out for a while.  Recovery is supposed to be 6 weeks post-surgery and full recovery in 3-4 months.

That sucks, Jim. Hoping for a quick recovery and a way to put together a satisfying season. 

2015-02-10 6:50 AM
in reply to: Sarah73

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
2015 Races

A - IMLOU (Oct 11)
B - Zoom 1/3 Iron Races (June 21 & August 16)
C - ???

2015-02-10 7:52 AM
in reply to: carrie639

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)

Originally posted by carrie639 Finally catching up after some long hours at work. I have shoulder impingement too and am trying not to get a cortisone shot. How horrible was it and how long do you have to be off swimming? It is not always irritated, but can get bad with fly and breast, so I try not to do too much of those.

I started off with the cortisone route but it didn't really help as I had hoped.  With a complete tear I doubt the cortisone would have prevented surgery.  The shot itself was nothing...just a pin like a flu shot.  However, I've heard stories of others who had docs that didn't know how to inject properly into a joint without causing pain.  As far as post-surgery....no swimming for a month until the incisions from the arthroscopic surgery heal, then a total of 6-8 weeks for initial recovery.  Probably up to 4 months for complete recovery.



2015-02-10 10:10 AM
in reply to: Birkierunner

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
Y'all are scaring me! I've had a little shoulder pain after some intense swimming the last couple weeks- but I'm fairly certain it's rotator cuff strain. I took the last 6 days to ice, rest and feel better. Going to see how it plays tomorrow at team practice.

Tough news on surgery, Jim. Hope you have a quick recovery.
2015-02-11 9:16 AM
in reply to: Ted Conroy

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)

Time to ask those race day questions you've always had but were afraid to ask......

2015-02-11 10:30 AM
in reply to: Birkierunner

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
Originally posted by Birkierunner

Time to ask those race day questions you've always had but were afraid to ask......




I lack basic coordination on the bike. Thoughts on the following:

1) Shoes pre-attached to pedals
2) Flying Mount/dismount

I feel ready to fall when I reach for the water bottle.
2015-02-11 10:35 AM
in reply to: Ted Conroy

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
To me the flying mount pre attached shoes thing is great for those athletes where saving 15 seconds will impact their payday. For me, I'm a mid-back of pack athlete that enjoys tri for the challenge and fitness. Taking 15 seconds to avoid falling is worth it. I will sit or kneel and put my shoes (and socks) on like I do when I'm at home.

As for the water bottle, I hear you. The bike I bought had the 2 bottle cage behind the saddle and I have never really felt confident reaching for them. I'm too frugal to buy a new bike that actually fits or to replace the cages with something that doesn't make me lose stability (especially when returning the bottle - I always fear dropping the bottle). That said, I would (should) practice with a couple different locations for bottles or try the aero bottle between the bars.
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