BT Development Mentor Program Archives » Dominion's Sprint/Oly/70.3 Group--Closed Rss Feed  
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2015-02-20 3:07 PM
in reply to: healthlawyer

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Subject: RE: Dominion's Sprint/Oly/70.3 Group--Closed

Originally posted by healthlawyer How's this for training weather?!

 

I believe I'll have to pass on that.  I waited until the warmest part of the afternoon today to get my run in at 38 degrees.  Wasn't fun.



2015-02-20 3:12 PM
in reply to: rjchilds8

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Subject: RE: Dominion's Sprint/Oly/70.3 Group--Closed

Originally posted by rjchilds8
Originally posted by Dominion

This may be a little off topic,  but has anybody in the group done any Adventure Racing?  Not talking about Mudders or Spartans, but long duration races (24 hours +) that include trekking, biking (usually mountain), water crossings (canoe,kayak), orienteering,  control points, and multiple transition areas?  This type of racing sounds interesting and challenging and I am just trying to learn a little more about it.  So far, I'm thinking the biggest challenge in the longer races (72hrs+) will be sleep deprivation.

Anyone with insight?

I had the same thought last fall. A buddy on my football team mentioned that he had done some and I was picking his brain about it. However, he wasn't doing longer distance ones. He was doing events that started/finished on the same day. Also, he said the ones he had done didn't have a hard orienteering aspect to the race, they were mostly just following a well marked trail. I guess the moral of the story is to do your research to make sure it provides the level of challenge you are looking for. I'm curious to hear from someone on the group that might have some experience because it did pique my interest last year.

The Florida Sea to Sea 72 hour race is what we have on our radar (2016).  It's Coast to Coast, no set trail.  I think there are around 80 Control Points in all you can acquire.  I'd want to do a few shorter races first, probably a 12 hour and then a 24-30 hour as prep before biting off something as big as the Sea to Sea.  My brother is down, so we just need to find a 3rd teammate, preferably somebody with a little experience at this type of racing.  http://www.floridasea2sea.com/home.html

2015-02-20 7:54 PM
in reply to: Dominion

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Subject: RE: Dominion's Sprint/Oly/70.3 Group--Closed
I hope everyone has a fantastic weekend!
2015-02-20 9:44 PM
in reply to: Dominion

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Subject: RE: Dominion's Sprint/Oly/70.3 Group--Closed
My uncle ran ultra for ever 100 milers and 24 hour races. Not so much of the other stuff. There is a 24 hour race locally that some friends of ours did and a trail marathon that sounded pretty tough.

If that is what you are interested I can give you an email address?

Nate
2015-02-20 9:48 PM
in reply to: Dominion

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Subject: RE: Dominion's Sprint/Oly/70.3 Group--Closed
How about race across america?

Nate
2015-02-20 9:55 PM
in reply to: nrpoulin

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Subject: RE: Dominion's Sprint/Oly/70.3 Group--Closed
I have also missed a few workouts this month. Was in NH for a ice fishing derby and my flight was cancelled and they said I wouldn't get one for two days so I drove back to NC. The cold weather has pushed me indoors, and I hate the treadmill.

On the up side I set a new PR for 100y in the pool at 1:22. Chris I decided to hold off on the start of the training plan to get my swim volumes up and have only been doing the Up side of the ladders, and will start the full program to place week 7 on my 2nd sprint

Hope everyone has a good weekend and spring is right around the corner.
Nate


2015-02-21 11:40 AM
in reply to: nrpoulin

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Subject: RE: Dominion's Sprint/Oly/70.3 Group--Closed
Originally posted by nrpoulin

I have also missed a few workouts this month. Was in NH for a ice fishing derby and my flight was cancelled and they said I wouldn't get one for two days so I drove back to NC. The cold weather has pushed me indoors, and I hate the treadmill.

On the up side I set a new PR for 100y in the pool at 1:22. Chris I decided to hold off on the start of the training plan to get my swim volumes up and have only been doing the Up side of the ladders, and will start the full program to place week 7 on my 2nd sprint

Hope everyone has a good weekend and spring is right around the corner.
Nate

Wow, 1:22 for 100y is awesome!
2015-02-21 4:48 PM
in reply to: rjchilds8

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Subject: RE: Dominion's Sprint/Oly/70.3 Group--Closed
I have a few residents who used to swim. They said when I get to 1:17 we can race. Obviously i can't sustain 1:22, but it makes 1:40 seem a little easier.

Nate
2015-02-22 9:03 AM
in reply to: nrpoulin

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Subject: RE: Dominion's Sprint/Oly/70.3 Group--Closed
Wow. Rough week here. To add to the cold and blowing snow kids decided to get sick yet again. They were sick last weekend and appeared to be back to normal until Thursday. Between dealing with that and then my wife catching a version of something too I've been left to keep things going. We thought that the kids were back to normal yesterday. They woke up chipper and running around rather happy. COOL! We'll be able to go to the in-laws and I'll be able to get a good swim in and all that good stuff. I get back to the inlaws with Subway for lunch and then the plan was to swim at the college a mile away. Well, thats when things went bad. My daughter started complaining about her ear and was a crap, My boy wasn't eating and next thing I know he has a mess that I'll let ya'll use your imagination as it was just too gross to describe. My wife takes off with the car to take my daughter for her ears and my shot at swimming is done. So, kids seem to be better today. But I'm not holding my breath. There is hope I'll make it to a pool this afternoon, but it's a small glimmer. Hope ya'll are able to follow your plans and had a great weekend! This weekend has been one to be forgotten so far lol.

Scott
2015-02-22 11:10 AM
in reply to: nrpoulin

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Subject: RE: Dominion's Sprint/Oly/70.3 Group--Closed
Originally posted by nrpoulin

I have a few residents who used to swim. They said when I get to 1:17 we can race. Obviously i can't sustain 1:22, but it makes 1:40 seem a little easier.

Nate


I sustained something like 1:28 for an Olympic race last year because we were swimming downstream! It's my fastest swim to date. Maybe some day I'll get to that speed with no current.
2015-02-22 11:13 AM
in reply to: scottjjmtri99

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Subject: RE: Dominion's Sprint/Oly/70.3 Group--Closed
Originally posted by scottjjmtri99

Wow. Rough week here. To add to the cold and blowing snow kids decided to get sick yet again. They were sick last weekend and appeared to be back to normal until Thursday. Between dealing with that and then my wife catching a version of something too I've been left to keep things going. We thought that the kids were back to normal yesterday. They woke up chipper and running around rather happy. COOL! We'll be able to go to the in-laws and I'll be able to get a good swim in and all that good stuff. I get back to the inlaws with Subway for lunch and then the plan was to swim at the college a mile away. Well, thats when things went bad. My daughter started complaining about her ear and was a crap, My boy wasn't eating and next thing I know he has a mess that I'll let ya'll use your imagination as it was just too gross to describe. My wife takes off with the car to take my daughter for her ears and my shot at swimming is done. So, kids seem to be better today. But I'm not holding my breath. There is hope I'll make it to a pool this afternoon, but it's a small glimmer. Hope ya'll are able to follow your plans and had a great weekend! This weekend has been one to be forgotten so far lol.

Scott


Hello, sounds tough. It happens. I've got 3 kids so I understand! I have struggled to get all my workouts in as well. However, this weekend is turning out to be a good one. Weather is good. I went for a nice long run yesterday and today is looking good too. We're having a drought condtiion here in California so the positive of it is that the weather is nice for workouts outdoors.


2015-02-22 11:38 AM
in reply to: scottjjmtri99

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Subject: RE: Dominion's Sprint/Oly/70.3 Group--Closed

Originally posted by scottjjmtri99 Wow. Rough week here. To add to the cold and blowing snow kids decided to get sick yet again. They were sick last weekend and appeared to be back to normal until Thursday. Between dealing with that and then my wife catching a version of something too I've been left to keep things going. We thought that the kids were back to normal yesterday. They woke up chipper and running around rather happy. COOL! We'll be able to go to the in-laws and I'll be able to get a good swim in and all that good stuff. I get back to the inlaws with Subway for lunch and then the plan was to swim at the college a mile away. Well, thats when things went bad. My daughter started complaining about her ear and was a crap, My boy wasn't eating and next thing I know he has a mess that I'll let ya'll use your imagination as it was just too gross to describe. My wife takes off with the car to take my daughter for her ears and my shot at swimming is done. So, kids seem to be better today. But I'm not holding my breath. There is hope I'll make it to a pool this afternoon, but it's a small glimmer. Hope ya'll are able to follow your plans and had a great weekend! This weekend has been one to be forgotten so far lol. Scott

Hang in there Scott.  You've made a ton of progress this year and this week is only a minor setback.  Do what you can do and know better days are ahead!

2015-02-23 9:24 AM
in reply to: ecpasos

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North Grafton, Massachusetts
Subject: RE: Dominion's Sprint/Oly/70.3 Group--Closed
Originally posted by ecpasos

Originally posted by scottjjmtri99

Wow. Rough week here. To add to the cold and blowing snow kids decided to get sick yet again. They were sick last weekend and appeared to be back to normal until Thursday. Between dealing with that and then my wife catching a version of something too I've been left to keep things going. We thought that the kids were back to normal yesterday. They woke up chipper and running around rather happy. COOL! We'll be able to go to the in-laws and I'll be able to get a good swim in and all that good stuff. I get back to the inlaws with Subway for lunch and then the plan was to swim at the college a mile away. Well, thats when things went bad. My daughter started complaining about her ear and was a crap, My boy wasn't eating and next thing I know he has a mess that I'll let ya'll use your imagination as it was just too gross to describe. My wife takes off with the car to take my daughter for her ears and my shot at swimming is done. So, kids seem to be better today. But I'm not holding my breath. There is hope I'll make it to a pool this afternoon, but it's a small glimmer. Hope ya'll are able to follow your plans and had a great weekend! This weekend has been one to be forgotten so far lol.

Scott


Hello, sounds tough. It happens. I've got 3 kids so I understand! I have struggled to get all my workouts in as well. However, this weekend is turning out to be a good one. Weather is good. I went for a nice long run yesterday and today is looking good too. We're having a drought condtiion here in California so the positive of it is that the weather is nice for workouts outdoors.

I think we have a lot of parents on here. I have 2 little ones myself (5 and 3 1/2). I try to plan my workouts so that they don't take too much away from time I could spend with the kids and my wife. That typically means that I don't start a lot of my training until 8:30 or 9:00 at night. Being typical siblings, our kids can fight. There are nights where they sap a lot of my energy and then I end up skipping my workout. I try not to let that happen, but it does. Of course, they come to almost every race I do (triathlon or otherwise) and it's always such a huge boost to my mood when I see them cheering daddy on! And this year I'll get to be the cheerleader as we have promised my 5 yo daughter that she can do her first 1K this year.

For one reason or another, there are bound to be interruptions when you have kids. It's part of the package when you become a parent. And it's never any fun when they are sick. Luckily, our kids seem to generally be in good spirits even when they are sick. My biggest fear is usually that I'll catch whatever they had and that will cause me to have to miss workouts.

Like Chris said, hang in there! Fortunately, it's still early in the year and there is plenty of time left to train.
2015-02-23 10:06 AM
in reply to: rjchilds8


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Downingtown , Pennsylvania
Subject: RE: Dominion's Sprint/Oly/70.3 Group--Closed
I'm just about 12 weeks out from my first Oly of the season so I'm starting a 12 week plan in earnest today. Will keep you al posted on my progress. Todd
2015-02-23 5:02 PM
in reply to: healthlawyer

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Subject: RE: Dominion's Sprint/Oly/70.3 Group--Closed
Originally posted by healthlawyer

I'm just about 12 weeks out from my first Oly of the season so I'm starting a 12 week plan in earnest today. Will keep you al posted on my progress. Todd


Go get it!

2015-02-23 8:29 PM
in reply to: nrpoulin

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Subject: Training methods
I'm just wondering if anyone has an opinion on a couple different approaches to training and which one might be better. For as long as I can remember, I have trained with negative splits. I always start slower and build my pace up as I go. After my run tonight, I wondered if there were any benefits to doing the opposite. Not necessarily all of the time, but mixing it up so some workouts use negative splits.

Here's the thing. I train that way, but I never seem to race that way. It's most likely the increase in adrenaline from competition, but I am almost never able to keep my pace lower at the start of the race. The one exception was my first 10K last year. I knew I would have a hard time finishing if I didn't keep it in check. But for 5Ks, I don't seem able to hold that little extra back. So I tend to go out too fast and then slow over the latter part of the race.

The good news for me is that my "real" time in the race always seems to be as good as or better than my treadmill time. Despite not racing the same way I train, I'm still able to meet or exceed my training performance. I'm just wondering if I'm missing out on some gains by always doing negative splits. Is there anything to be gained by doing the opposite or mixing them up?


2015-02-24 6:32 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Training methods

I always negative split runs.  Swimming I usually go out fairly hard and maybe slow a little throughout.  Cycling is usually pushing hard the whole way, not so much a negative split but trying to hold on as the miles pile up.

 Any other thoughts on this?



Edited by Dominion 2015-02-24 6:33 PM
2015-02-24 8:07 PM
in reply to: Dominion

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Subject: RE: Training methods

I was always an even pace kind of runner, hold the same pace all the way through. Over the last couple of years I've been trying to do more negative splits during a race, particularly the run. However I haven't seen many, if any, training plans that practice a neg. split. You still have the warm up, intervals, or hills, speed, fartlek, or whatever, then a cool down. A negative split is something that needs to be practiced!

Anyway, my last couple of half marathons, one was a 70.3, worked out really well running a neg. I didn't get the redundancy feeling I did when holding an even pace for that long and I was able to finished much stronger (it was fun passing the people who passed me earlier, many now walking). Not only did I finish stronger but I still had fuel left in the tank. So I could have gone harder. I've never bonked in a race but many say this will prevent that from happening while giving you a faster finishing time. True, it's not easy sticking to your plan at the start but it can pay off in the end!

Google "why is it best to run a negative split?" and you'll find lots of articles on it.

2015-02-24 8:18 PM
in reply to: HelmoAlkou

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Subject: RE: Training methods

Oh, some of you will get a kick out of hearing that we got hit with ice and freezing temps (26*F) Monday.  I don't run or ride on ice and gym has been closed for two days!!  Now we're looking at 2" of snow tonight.  It was a ghost town going to work yesterday, lol.

2015-02-25 6:11 AM
in reply to: HelmoAlkou

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Subject: RE: Training methods
Originally posted by HelmoAlkou

I was always an even pace kind of runner, hold the same pace all the way through. Over the last couple of years I've been trying to do more negative splits during a race, particularly the run. However I haven't seen many, if any, training plans that practice a neg. split. You still have the warm up, intervals, or hills, speed, fartlek, or whatever, then a cool down. A negative split is something that needs to be practiced!

Anyway, my last couple of half marathons, one was a 70.3, worked out really well running a neg. I didn't get the redundancy feeling I did when holding an even pace for that long and I was able to finished much stronger (it was fun passing the people who passed me earlier, many now walking). Not only did I finish stronger but I still had fuel left in the tank. So I could have gone harder. I've never bonked in a race but many say this will prevent that from happening while giving you a faster finishing time. True, it's not easy sticking to your plan at the start but it can pay off in the end!

Google "why is it best to run a negative split?" and you'll find lots of articles on it.



I have been doing negative splits for so long now that I don't even remember what I used to do in the past. I suppose maybe I was an "even pace" runner, but can't remember. I can tell you that I don't think I could run that way now. I think I would get much too bored running the same pace for the entire run, even if it is only a 3 miler. I don't mean that to criticize anyone that runs that way, just that it wouldn't work for me. I start at a little bit slower speed, then typically add 0.1 mph to my pace every 1/2 mile. My last 5K treadmill run I started at 6.7 mph and finished at 7.2 mph. If I'm feeling good towards the end of the run, then I'll jump more than just the 0.1 mph. But I almost always map out a pace plan before I step foot on my treadmill.

Looking at my PR run last year, I did the direct opposite of my training. I ran the first mile in 7:20, but that really tired me out and I settled into an 8:35 type of pace for the next 2 miles. I know I'm not nearly as fast as many of the runners on here, but that was a wicked pace for me for the first mile! I was running shoulder to shoulder with my brother for the first 3/4 mile and I could hear him huffing and puffing (those roles are usually reversed with me trying to keep up with him). I knew if I kept the pressure on I could wear him out, so I held that fast pace for the first mile. It worked, he never caught up to me and finished 44 seconds behind me. And, it brought me my PR and my first medal (yes, it was a weak field).

Anyway, I have always told myself that I should race the way I train, but that has never happened except for once. I just wondered if there was anything to be gained to throw in a few training sessions that match the actual way I race, which has typically been to go out fast and then hang on to the finish.
2015-02-25 7:21 AM
in reply to: HelmoAlkou

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Subject: RE: Training methods

Originally posted by HelmoAlkou

I was always an even pace kind of runner, hold the same pace all the way through. Over the last couple of years I've been trying to do more negative splits during a race, particularly the run. However I haven't seen many, if any, training plans that practice a neg. split. You still have the warm up, intervals, or hills, speed, fartlek, or whatever, then a cool down. A negative split is something that needs to be practiced!

Anyway, my last couple of half marathons, one was a 70.3, worked out really well running a neg. I didn't get the redundancy feeling I did when holding an even pace for that long and I was able to finished much stronger (it was fun passing the people who passed me earlier, many now walking). Not only did I finish stronger but I still had fuel left in the tank. So I could have gone harder. I've never bonked in a race but many say this will prevent that from happening while giving you a faster finishing time. True, it's not easy sticking to your plan at the start but it can pay off in the end!

Google "why is it best to run a negative split?" and you'll find lots of articles on it.

This is key.  Knowing when to increase the pace and go hard enough to not have much left in the tank.  I think it takes a lot of practice in training and racing to know your body, your pace, and your distance well enough to know just where that point is.  To go near the edge but not past it.  This is probably one reason why negative splits work so well for me in running, but not as well in swimming or cycling.  I just don't have all those years and miles built into my swimming and cycling that I do from so many past years of running.  I find the treadmill is a great tool for developing pace as well.  Like Randy said in the last post, the treadmill allows you to start at a pace and gradually increase throughout and end strong.  I too always have an increasing pace pre-planned going into each treadmill session. Due to my work situation I usually run 2-3 times per week on the treadmill, so that type of pacing gets pretty ingrained.

So to answer the original question, I don't think there is anything wrong with a vast majority of your training being negative split.  Just get comfortable enough to know where your boundaries are, and then use it even while racing.  Start  out steady and slowly build to the fastest pace you feel like you can hold for the distance of the session (race), then hold it until you are close enough that you are ready to increase again and push to the end.  This may be 1/2 mile, 1/4 mile, 1 mile, 100 yards, it's whatever your are comfortable with.  Again it takes some practice and experience to get closer to that edge and we probably never get it perfect.



2015-02-25 7:31 AM
in reply to: Dominion

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Subject: RE: Training methods

Her's some mid-week motivation for you and it kind of ties in with negative splits.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgdFrUjKppQ

2015-02-25 9:49 AM
in reply to: #5075698

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Subject: RE: Dominion's Sprint/Oly/70.3 Group--Closed
My goal in run training is always negative splits for interval, and tempo type runs. This conditions you too digging deep. I don't focus on pace for long days. In racing I think a negative split approach works good if you are racing yourself or the clock. If I am racing the field I try to stay at the back of a pack and every time a pack splits go with the new pack. In high school or college depending on the race and the field I would position myself at the mid or back of the first, second, or third pack, and then respond to surges of the pack or splitting of the pack. This prevents your mind from wondering, or you from focusing on fatigue. If there was a hill or a downhill or I felt good a surge can break the will of some in your pack and get you some separation.

On the swim I lack intensity and just swim. I have yet to find the will to race in open water. Im a little better in the pool. On the bike I try to go with anyone that passes me unless their pace is far beyond my comfort zone

in short I think you need to know your running style, your goal for that race, and the field
2015-02-26 2:39 AM
in reply to: nrpoulin

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Subject: RE: Dominion's Sprint/Oly/70.3 Group--Closed
Hi All,

I've just started to up my training. I'm now looking at 8 sessions a week of about an hour each. I know that doesn't seem like a lot to some of you, but it is to a 44year old desk worker. ??
I have noticed that I'm begging to feel very tiered each evening, to the point in sleep for an hour at about 8 most evenings, I'm also very hungry.
My diet isn't bad, but I was thinking that with the extra training I need to watch my nutrition.
I don't know really where to start, anyone had similar thoughts or can offer advice

Thanks
2015-02-26 6:45 AM
in reply to: nrpoulin

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Subject: RE: Dominion's Sprint/Oly/70.3 Group--Closed
Originally posted by nrpoulin

My goal in run training is always negative splits for interval, and tempo type runs. This conditions you too digging deep. I don't focus on pace for long days. In racing I think a negative split approach works good if you are racing yourself or the clock. If I am racing the field I try to stay at the back of a pack and every time a pack splits go with the new pack. In high school or college depending on the race and the field I would position myself at the mid or back of the first, second, or third pack, and then respond to surges of the pack or splitting of the pack. This prevents your mind from wondering, or you from focusing on fatigue. If there was a hill or a downhill or I felt good a surge can break the will of some in your pack and get you some separation.

On the swim I lack intensity and just swim. I have yet to find the will to race in open water. Im a little better in the pool. On the bike I try to go with anyone that passes me unless their pace is far beyond my comfort zone

in short I think you need to know your running style, your goal for that race, and the field

Good info and food for thought, Nate! In general, I'm racing myself and the clock. Since I just started doing tris, I'm not really in the mode where I'm competing with anyone else. I'm only a middle of the pack (or slower) kind of competitor right now. Sadly, that's probably about all I'll ever be. I have too many other priorities (kids, work, chores) that require my time and just don't have enough time to devote to training to really get beyond MOP. While my competitive side would like me to be closer to the front, a larger part of me is enjoying the race and competing with myself and not really worried about it.
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