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2014-12-21 10:35 PM

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Subject: Base
I would like to build a good base for my bike and run for olympic distance. how many hours a week do i need for each discipline?


2014-12-21 10:50 PM
in reply to: spoon

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Richland, Washington
Subject: RE: Base
Not gonna lie....

It's all about that base....
'bout that base, no taper
I'm all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no taper
I'm all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no taper
'm all 'bout that base, 'bout that base

Yeah, sorry for that.... I kinda had to. Back on topic.. It would help to have more of a history of your past training. I can tell you that during my base period I'm around 2-3 hours a day. Some days more, some days less. It's all relative.

So, what's your history?

Don't make me sing the rest of that song!!
2014-12-21 11:08 PM
in reply to: Swimaway

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Subject: RE: Base
I was out for almost 2years due to injury. I started Riding august and ride 3x a week 60 to 100 miles a week. my run i am doing run walk 4x a week.
2014-12-22 8:34 AM
in reply to: Swimaway

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Subject: RE: Base
"It's all about that base, bout that base, no speedwork".
2014-12-22 9:02 AM
in reply to: spoon

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Subject: RE: Base

Originally posted by spoon I was out for almost 2years due to injury. I started Riding august and ride 3x a week 60 to 100 miles a week. my run i am doing run walk 4x a week.

I've used the run-focused Oly plan here on BT a couple of times. I also run 4 x week.  My riding is limited to the weekends and ride two days a week.  The plan builds up to about 60 miles per week on the bike and 20 on the run.  I'm 61 and need more recovery time these days, so I do a two week build/ one week recovery periodization schedule.

If you're coming back from a long-term layoff, I'd suggest building volume back carefully with the run.  I personally think the 10% rule is a bit conservative, but you also don't want to overdo it.  Consistency is more important than volume when you're coming back from an injury.

Good luck,

Mark

2014-12-22 9:06 AM
in reply to: spoon

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Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia
Subject: RE: Base
Base is not measured in hours per week (or km's per week) - it is the cumulative effect of all training you have done. Often the idea of base in triathlon is presented as high volume, low intensity. While this is one way to approach building general fitness, it is not necessarily the most effective way to approach your training.

Since we are training for three sports, it is often useful to consider how best to build general fitness in each sport individually and then attempt to translate that into a complete training plan.

For swimming, while fitness certainly plays a role, it is by far the most technical of the three sports and therefore should be approached in a manner that targets both fitness and technique. Since swimming is not load bearing, one can generally tolerate higher intensity in the pool so for someone with some swim background (say can swim 1000m non-stop - if not, I would suggest swim instruction prior to trying to build fitness for most) then swimming short repeats at or faster than you swim for the 1000 should be the bulk of the main sets. However, the repeats should be short enough (with 5-15s rest) to allow you to maintain good form through the entire mainset. An occasional longer effort at a somewhat easier effort can also help but the typical workout should be lots of 200s or less.

On the bike, the best predictor of endurance performance is what is call functional threshold power (FTP) and this is true for all triathlon distances. For most, at this time of year with time spent on the trainer, focusing on raising threshold with threshold targeted workouts (comfortably hard efforts of 5-30 minutes totaling about 40 minutes at threshold in the work with rest of about 20% of the hard effort) and VO2max work (hard efforts lasting 30s - 5:00 with about equal rest) should help the most with raising FTP. Then when the weather is better, a long ride added to the mix should help transfer ability to ride at certain percentages of FTP for given distances.

Finally for running, which is load bearing, a more conservative approach is often the best. Lots of easy running, building overall volume, with some occasional key harder efforts (strides to start - 30s at 5k pace with 2:00 easy between) and building toward threshold paced efforts (up to about 20 minutes at a comfortably hard effort). The long run generally should be no more than 35% of your weekly running (less is usually better) and due to the nature of running stress, building volume through frequency is often better than simply trying to cram all running into 3 days. The BarryP 321 plan is a great place to start with run training for a typical age group athlete.

Shane


2014-12-22 12:21 PM
in reply to: Swimaway

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Exton, PA
Subject: RE: Base
Originally posted by Swimaway

Not gonna lie....

It's all about that base....
'bout that base, no taper
I'm all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no taper
I'm all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no taper
'm all 'bout that base, 'bout that base

Yeah, sorry for that.... I kinda had to. Back on topic.. It would help to have more of a history of your past training. I can tell you that during my base period I'm around 2-3 hours a day. Some days more, some days less. It's all relative.

So, what's your history?

Don't make me sing the rest of that song!!


^^^^ Hate you - now I have that tune stuck in my head all day!
2014-12-22 9:33 PM
in reply to: mike761

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Subject: RE: Base
Thank you for all your help.. A blessed Christmas to you and your Family!
2014-12-24 8:48 PM
in reply to: mike761

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Subject: RE: Base
Originally posted by mike761

Originally posted by Swimaway

Not gonna lie....

It's all about that base....
'bout that base, no taper
I'm all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no taper
I'm all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no taper
'm all 'bout that base, 'bout that base

Yeah, sorry for that.... I kinda had to. Back on topic.. It would help to have more of a history of your past training. I can tell you that during my base period I'm around 2-3 hours a day. Some days more, some days less. It's all relative.

So, what's your history?

Don't make me sing the rest of that song!!


^^^^ Hate you - now I have that tune stuck in my head all day!


  • ..and that's been in my head ever since I saw the title.

  • For me, base training starts usually after some off season doing very little to nothing, so I take some time to build up from complete sloth to a decent amount of training. If I had to peg that at some mileage by the end, it's probably swimming about 2x1 mile, biking a few times a week to about 75 miles, and running about 20 or so miles, and 2x30-45 mins strength training. At my current speeds, about 9-10 hours per week. All easy unless I get a hair up my a$$ to go faster once in a while.

    That's pretty much my average once I get into specific training. I probably start at 7-ish hours and work up to that. I often slack on the swimming and biking over the winter to build run miles because that's what needs the most maintenance for me.

    Disclaimer: I'm an experiment of one and this is just what seems to work for me.
    2014-12-24 10:46 PM
    in reply to: Quix


    1055
    10002525
    Subject: RE: Base
    If you go over to Trainerroad they have several training plans that may help you figure some things out.

    2014-12-27 5:10 AM
    in reply to: gsmacleod

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    Melon Presser
    52116
    50005000500050005000500050005000500050002000100
    Subject: RE: Base

    Originally posted by gsmacleod Base is not measured in hours per week (or km's per week) - it is the cumulative effect of all training you have done. Often the idea of base in triathlon is presented as high volume, low intensity. While this is one way to approach building general fitness, it is not necessarily the most effective way to approach your training. Since we are training for three sports, it is often useful to consider how best to build general fitness in each sport individually and then attempt to translate that into a complete training plan. For swimming, while fitness certainly plays a role, it is by far the most technical of the three sports and therefore should be approached in a manner that targets both fitness and technique. Since swimming is not load bearing, one can generally tolerate higher intensity in the pool so for someone with some swim background (say can swim 1000m non-stop - if not, I would suggest swim instruction prior to trying to build fitness for most) then swimming short repeats at or faster than you swim for the 1000 should be the bulk of the main sets. However, the repeats should be short enough (with 5-15s rest) to allow you to maintain good form through the entire mainset. An occasional longer effort at a somewhat easier effort can also help but the typical workout should be lots of 200s or less. On the bike, the best predictor of endurance performance is what is call functional threshold power (FTP) and this is true for all triathlon distances. For most, at this time of year with time spent on the trainer, focusing on raising threshold with threshold targeted workouts (comfortably hard efforts of 5-30 minutes totaling about 40 minutes at threshold in the work with rest of about 20% of the hard effort) and VO2max work (hard efforts lasting 30s - 5:00 with about equal rest) should help the most with raising FTP. Then when the weather is better, a long ride added to the mix should help transfer ability to ride at certain percentages of FTP for given distances. Finally for running, which is load bearing, a more conservative approach is often the best. Lots of easy running, building overall volume, with some occasional key harder efforts (strides to start - 30s at 5k pace with 2:00 easy between) and building toward threshold paced efforts (up to about 20 minutes at a comfortably hard effort). The long run generally should be no more than 35% of your weekly running (less is usually better) and due to the nature of running stress, building volume through frequency is often better than simply trying to cram all running into 3 days. The BarryP 321 plan is a great place to start with run training for a typical age group athlete. Shane

    x2

    I think I'm just going to wander around the Interwebz and x2 to everything Shane says (AND IT'S HIS BIRTHDAY BTW HAAAAPPEEE BIRTHDAY!!!)

    Once in a gazillion times I have something to add but I haven't found anything to disagree with yet

    Here's the link to all the BarryP running (and some other) good stuff, it is really worth a read and a try especially for folks starting out.

    http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=1612485;search_string=runtraining;#1612485

     



    2014-12-27 8:24 AM
    in reply to: IndoIronYanti

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    Pro
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    50001000
    Camp Hill, Pennsylvania
    Subject: RE: Base

    Originally posted by IndoIronYanti

    Originally posted by gsmacleod Base is not measured in hours per week (or km's per week) - it is the cumulative effect of all training you have done. Often the idea of base in triathlon is presented as high volume, low intensity. While this is one way to approach building general fitness, it is not necessarily the most effective way to approach your training. Since we are training for three sports, it is often useful to consider how best to build general fitness in each sport individually and then attempt to translate that into a complete training plan. For swimming, while fitness certainly plays a role, it is by far the most technical of the three sports and therefore should be approached in a manner that targets both fitness and technique. Since swimming is not load bearing, one can generally tolerate higher intensity in the pool so for someone with some swim background (say can swim 1000m non-stop - if not, I would suggest swim instruction prior to trying to build fitness for most) then swimming short repeats at or faster than you swim for the 1000 should be the bulk of the main sets. However, the repeats should be short enough (with 5-15s rest) to allow you to maintain good form through the entire mainset. An occasional longer effort at a somewhat easier effort can also help but the typical workout should be lots of 200s or less. On the bike, the best predictor of endurance performance is what is call functional threshold power (FTP) and this is true for all triathlon distances. For most, at this time of year with time spent on the trainer, focusing on raising threshold with threshold targeted workouts (comfortably hard efforts of 5-30 minutes totaling about 40 minutes at threshold in the work with rest of about 20% of the hard effort) and VO2max work (hard efforts lasting 30s - 5:00 with about equal rest) should help the most with raising FTP. Then when the weather is better, a long ride added to the mix should help transfer ability to ride at certain percentages of FTP for given distances. Finally for running, which is load bearing, a more conservative approach is often the best. Lots of easy running, building overall volume, with some occasional key harder efforts (strides to start - 30s at 5k pace with 2:00 easy between) and building toward threshold paced efforts (up to about 20 minutes at a comfortably hard effort). The long run generally should be no more than 35% of your weekly running (less is usually better) and due to the nature of running stress, building volume through frequency is often better than simply trying to cram all running into 3 days. The BarryP 321 plan is a great place to start with run training for a typical age group athlete. Shane

    x2

    I think I'm just going to wander around the Interwebz and x2 to everything Shane says (AND IT'S HIS BIRTHDAY BTW HAAAAPPEEE BIRTHDAY!!!)

    Once in a gazillion times I have something to add but I haven't found anything to disagree with yet

    Here's the link to all the BarryP running (and some other) good stuff, it is really worth a read and a try especially for folks starting out.

    http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=1612485;search_string=runtraining;#1612485

     

    ^^^What she said^^^

    I think Shane's post is the most succinct I've ever seen about effective training for multisport.  It should probably be made into a sticky someplace here on BT and everyone encouraged to read it.

     

    2014-12-27 9:05 AM
    in reply to: TriMyBest

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    Veteran
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    200050010010010025
    Austin, Texas
    Subject: RE: Base

    Originally posted by TriMyBest

    Originally posted by IndoIronYanti

    Originally posted by gsmacleod Base is not measured in hours per week (or km's per week) - it is the cumulative effect of all training you have done. Often the idea of base in triathlon is presented as high volume, low intensity. While this is one way to approach building general fitness, it is not necessarily the most effective way to approach your training. Since we are training for three sports, it is often useful to consider how best to build general fitness in each sport individually and then attempt to translate that into a complete training plan. For swimming, while fitness certainly plays a role, it is by far the most technical of the three sports and therefore should be approached in a manner that targets both fitness and technique. Since swimming is not load bearing, one can generally tolerate higher intensity in the pool so for someone with some swim background (say can swim 1000m non-stop - if not, I would suggest swim instruction prior to trying to build fitness for most) then swimming short repeats at or faster than you swim for the 1000 should be the bulk of the main sets. However, the repeats should be short enough (with 5-15s rest) to allow you to maintain good form through the entire mainset. An occasional longer effort at a somewhat easier effort can also help but the typical workout should be lots of 200s or less. On the bike, the best predictor of endurance performance is what is call functional threshold power (FTP) and this is true for all triathlon distances. For most, at this time of year with time spent on the trainer, focusing on raising threshold with threshold targeted workouts (comfortably hard efforts of 5-30 minutes totaling about 40 minutes at threshold in the work with rest of about 20% of the hard effort) and VO2max work (hard efforts lasting 30s - 5:00 with about equal rest) should help the most with raising FTP. Then when the weather is better, a long ride added to the mix should help transfer ability to ride at certain percentages of FTP for given distances. Finally for running, which is load bearing, a more conservative approach is often the best. Lots of easy running, building overall volume, with some occasional key harder efforts (strides to start - 30s at 5k pace with 2:00 easy between) and building toward threshold paced efforts (up to about 20 minutes at a comfortably hard effort). The long run generally should be no more than 35% of your weekly running (less is usually better) and due to the nature of running stress, building volume through frequency is often better than simply trying to cram all running into 3 days. The BarryP 321 plan is a great place to start with run training for a typical age group athlete. Shane

    x2

    I think I'm just going to wander around the Interwebz and x2 to everything Shane says (AND IT'S HIS BIRTHDAY BTW HAAAAPPEEE BIRTHDAY!!!)

    Once in a gazillion times I have something to add but I haven't found anything to disagree with yet

    Here's the link to all the BarryP running (and some other) good stuff, it is really worth a read and a try especially for folks starting out.

    http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=1612485;search_string=runtraining;#1612485

     

    ^^^What she said^^^

    I think Shane's post is the most succinct I've ever seen about effective training for multisport.  It should probably be made into a sticky someplace here on BT and everyone encouraged to read it.

     

    Goodness, not only did Yanti say what I was going to say, you then said what I was going to say about what she'd said about what he'd said!

    Agree on the stickie.  Thank you Shane for a great response (and that's the real reason I posted - much gratitude!).

    Matt

    2014-12-27 12:15 PM
    in reply to: spoon

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    Subject: RE: Base
    Originally posted by spoon

    I would like to build a good base for my bike and run for olympic distance. how many hours a week do i need for each discipline?


    Coach Shane gave the best answer, by far.

    I'd add that my own personal experience is that base building for running must come from multiple short distances with a very easy pace. The two benefits are : 1) getting the body ready for the jarring of further distances (at a faster race pace) by slowly exposing your skeleton, muscles, tendons and ligaments to the rigors of the running exercise, which is a maximal load bearing endeavor and 2) slowly building your aerobic engines-your heart/lungs and muscles.

    The pace should be easy and comfortable. It takes a very long while to build up to being able to handle very high loads, but most people will not need to do that anyway to get close to where they want. Having an overall plan to get you best ready for race day by having shorter blocks to build up/rest and build more is something that everyone has to figure out for themselves or with the help of a coach. Most people can do a reasonable job putting a plan into effect. Periodization has been discussed in a different thread, but you should understand that the importance of base is to be able to take it to the next level, with less risk of injury.

    If you were running only, then I would advise building slowly until you hit the maximum time your life allows for training. Try to give 1/2 hour daily to running and take a day off completely when you need it. Keep it up and try to get into the practice of daily running. Then once you've build to what you find your really can do after putting it into practice, and it's often different than what you think you can do, hold it there for 4-8 weeks, minimum.

    During the first few weeks, only do pickups or strides (starting at 5-6 x 20-30 seconds) once or twice weekly. Over the weeks, build to a total of 5% per week max -running strides- done 2 or 3 x/week. For example, if you build to 30 miles/week, then build to 8x100M 3x/week=1.5miles or 5% of 30 miles. Cutback mileage for a week every 3-4 weeks, and repeat until you really achieve the most time you can put in.

    Only then you can begin some faster running. Some people use Daniel's or McMillian to get an idea of paces, but it's just as easy to just go and run multiple bouts of shorter, somewhat faster pace for 2-5 minutes. Some people like to hold a specific heart rate or % of max or LT. Either way that isn't base, it's the next step, 'speed', which comes in lots of forms.

    The harder part is deciding how to intermingle the various workouts in 3 disciplines and make it best work. Now that's a challenge!

    We all have time limiters and deciding how many hours you have to consistently give to training, now and in the future, is a huge challenge for all AG athletes. It's not really a question of 'need', it's more a question of what you want and how do you best improve with least risk. You'll improve more by training 10 hours a week than 5, if done smartly. But how do you spend those hours? Reread Shane's comments and apply it to your training plan.
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