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SBR "U" (Page 17)
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 2015-01-22 1:21 PM in reply to: marcag |
Veteran  2842     Austin, Texas |  Subject: RE: SBR "U"Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by TankBoy Look at the number returned at the initial calibration and do a calibration at the end. Take the difference between those numbers and divide by 3. That is is the amount of drift in watts Pre firmware 21, the initial number would read high due to a bug so if you relied on that number, never did a manual zero, you were probably reading about 6 watts high right off the bat and 10 to 15 watts by the end I find that with FW21 or greater, if you zero after 10min, there is very little drift after. All of it seems to occur in the first 10minutes. Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by GoFaster Getting confused - auto zero the PT? I've never heard of this one. I just calibrate before every ride, am I missing something? Every time you coast for a few seconds, the PT will do an auto zero (same as the calibrate at the beginning). When you ride outside, this usually happens on a regular basis. On the trainer, not so much. Side question. Do folks with Quargs calibrate mid rides outside (or even on the trainer) routinely to keep the data solid? I do it at the beginning but rarely during a ride... With temperature changes over the course of a ride, I wonder if there's much drift or so minimal it's not an issue intra-ride. Sorry if this was clear to others in the above... Wondering about degree of change over such a short time frame rather than over the life of the equipment. Thanks Matt I do, particularly on long rides outside I can see some significant drift. If I understand it correctly though in the newest firmware update they changed it so that it does it automatically when you coast, but I still do it out of habit. So before when the Quarq got a cadence reading (from pedaling backwards) and a zero power reading it reset the offset (calibrating is actually a different thing, but Garmin has conflated that). This similar to power tap, when it gets a zero power meter and an RPM from the wheel, it rests the offset. With the Quarq it now resets the offset when it gets a zero power reading and no cadence. I like it better the other way and I think it still works as well. On my Garmin vectors you also pedal backwards to reset the offset - the good thing about the vectors is that if you are using a Garmin head unit it gives you a notice that it is reset. BUT you have to be careful when you pedal backwards when in your largest gear; the clearance between the chain and the plug that goes in to the spindle is very close and you can shear it off with the chain. Don't ask me how I know this.... And what further bakes my noodle is that my trainer seems to have increasing resistance as it heats up (or so I'm attributing). In the same gear/cadence combo, I definitely see a drift up in W that correlates to more than the normal increase in RPE and /or HR. But with drift now potentially occurring in a couple/few places (HR, Quarg, trainer - oh my!), I might stop thinking and just ride more. Matt |
| 2015-01-22 1:44 PM in reply to: mcmanusclan5 |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: SBR "U" Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 And what further bakes my noodle is that my trainer seems to have increasing resistance as it heats up (or so I'm attributing). In the same gear/cadence combo, I definitely see a drift up in W that correlates to more than the normal increase in RPE and /or HR. But with drift now potentially occurring in a couple/few places (HR, Quarg, trainer - oh my!), I might stop thinking and just ride more. Matt Tab gets that on her Cycleops but my KK is pretty stable. I keep hearing a voice in my head (Shane, is that you?) saying "just ride your @$&#! bike". |
| 2015-01-22 3:17 PM in reply to: axteraa |
| Subject: RE: SBR "U" Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 And what further bakes my noodle is that my trainer seems to have increasing resistance as it heats up (or so I'm attributing). In the same gear/cadence combo, I definitely see a drift up in W that correlates to more than the normal increase in RPE and /or HR. But with drift now potentially occurring in a couple/few places (HR, Quarg, trainer - oh my!), I might stop thinking and just ride more. Matt Tab gets that on her Cycleops but my KK is pretty stable. I keep hearing a voice in my head (Shane, is that you?) saying "just ride your @$&#! bike". You guys have seen this thread?
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| 2015-01-22 6:06 PM in reply to: brigby1 |
Master 8247 Eugene, Oregon Bronze member | Subject: RE: SBR "U" Not sure about current bike fitness as I haven't raced a tri since late July (and performance was probably somewhat affected by injury for that one, even on the bike) but guessing it would be a similar profile as am at a similar point in the season off of very similar fall and winter training. If anything, maybe the 20 minute would be stronger relative to the 5-minute, since I haven't done much max riding and did a lot of longer rides at low/moderate intensity (but lots of BIG hills) over break. My max power sucks, basically, so it could use work. I'm embarassed to reveal it. Guess most of you can double mine! Still thinking about three vs. four rides a week. Life is absolutely crazy now till Tet break--not sure I can handle it. |
| 2015-01-23 8:00 AM in reply to: ChrisM |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: SBR "U" Originally posted by ChrisM Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 And what further bakes my noodle is that my trainer seems to have increasing resistance as it heats up (or so I'm attributing). In the same gear/cadence combo, I definitely see a drift up in W that correlates to more than the normal increase in RPE and /or HR. But with drift now potentially occurring in a couple/few places (HR, Quarg, trainer - oh my!), I might stop thinking and just ride more. Matt Tab gets that on her Cycleops but my KK is pretty stable. I keep hearing a voice in my head (Shane, is that you?) saying "just ride your @$&#! bike". You guys have seen this thread?
Need to read that more in depth - I always thought I was good to go after calibrating at the beginning of the ride. Training peaks question - in the old version if you click on a lap/interval the overall numbers changed to display those of the lap, but in the new version I can't figure it out, all it does is highlight the interval on the graph.. Can someone point me in the right direction. |
| 2015-01-23 8:07 AM in reply to: GoFaster |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: SBR "U" Originally posted by GoFaster Training peaks question - in the old version if you click on a lap/interval the overall numbers changed to display those of the lap, but in the new version I can't figure it out, all it does is highlight the interval on the graph.. Can someone point me in the right direction. Hmm, it changes it for me. I see laps on the lower right along with the peak 2s, 5s etc and when I click on it the section above it changes to the lap data. |
| 2015-01-23 8:16 AM in reply to: axteraa |
Master 6834 Englewood, Florida | Subject: RE: SBR "U" Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by GoFaster Training peaks question - in the old version if you click on a lap/interval the overall numbers changed to display those of the lap, but in the new version I can't figure it out, all it does is highlight the interval on the graph.. Can someone point me in the right direction. Hmm, it changes it for me. I see laps on the lower right along with the peak 2s, 5s etc and when I click on it the section above it changes to the lap data. Mine does the same, but I did notice if I check the checkbox, then no change. Click the lap and highlight it and it changes. |
| 2015-01-23 9:45 AM in reply to: Hot Runner |
Pro 6191 | Subject: RE: SBR "U" Originally posted by Hot Runner Not sure about current bike fitness as I haven't raced a tri since late July (and performance was probably somewhat affected by injury for that one, even on the bike) but guessing it would be a similar profile as am at a similar point in the season off of very similar fall and winter training. If anything, maybe the 20 minute would be stronger relative to the 5-minute, since I haven't done much max riding and did a lot of longer rides at low/moderate intensity (but lots of BIG hills) over break. My max power sucks, basically, so it could use work. I'm embarassed to reveal it. Guess most of you can double mine! Still thinking about three vs. four rides a week. Life is absolutely crazy now till Tet break--not sure I can handle it. You're not alone |
Luckily, I'm run-focused and my friend is borrowing my power meter for a while | 2015-01-23 10:28 AM in reply to: cdban66 |
Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: SBR "U" Originally posted by cdban66 Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by GoFaster Training peaks question - in the old version if you click on a lap/interval the overall numbers changed to display those of the lap, but in the new version I can't figure it out, all it does is highlight the interval on the graph.. Can someone point me in the right direction. Hmm, it changes it for me. I see laps on the lower right along with the peak 2s, 5s etc and when I click on it the section above it changes to the lap data. Mine does the same, but I did notice if I check the checkbox, then no change. Click the lap and highlight it and it changes. Yup - that is the way it works for me as well. I always thought it should be the opposite, but what do I know about UI? |
| 2015-01-23 2:00 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: SBR "U" So I have a somewhat interesting little data anecdote. On my ride in the mountains yesterday I rode the same route at the same effort as I did the loop back in the summer when looking at power, HR, and RPE. This time around the loop I was almost 6 minutes slower. I suffered some junky HR info both at the beginning and end of the ride, but on the two climbs and descents in the middle this is how they compare:
There was a 30 degree F/6.7 degree C temperature difference between the two rides (yesterday was cooler) and I was also 5lbs heavier yesterday than back in July. I know the difference between the Wolfpen descents is largely that I actually rode the twisty descent a lot better yesterday (my counter steering seemed to be "on" for some reason) but the Neels descents are more comparable: it is a long down and by-and-large the turns are broad and sweeping. If anything I pushed harder yesterday as I had a couple of cars stacked up behind me. Anyway, I assume the 5lbs is what makes the bulk of the difference on the climbs, and the air density makes the bulk of the difference on the Neels decent? The power and HR data is consistent through out other parts of the ride as well, and each little difference in time/speed add up to be a total of +5:48. That is a ton of time over a 34 mile course! Is my thinking correct or are their other possible variables that I am maybe missing? Tire pressure was the same, clothing was similar (I had a vest and arm warmers on that although tight fitting, probably caused a little drag). |
| 2015-01-23 2:24 PM in reply to: TankBoy |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: SBR "U" Originally posted by TankBoy So I have a somewhat interesting little data anecdote. On my ride in the mountains yesterday I rode the same route at the same effort as I did the loop back in the summer when looking at power, HR, and RPE. This time around the loop I was almost 6 minutes slower. I suffered some junky HR info both at the beginning and end of the ride, but on the two climbs and descents in the middle this is how they compare:
There was a 30 degree F/6.7 degree C temperature difference between the two rides (yesterday was cooler) and I was also 5lbs heavier yesterday than back in July. I know the difference between the Wolfpen descents is largely that I actually rode the twisty descent a lot better yesterday (my counter steering seemed to be "on" for some reason) but the Neels descents are more comparable: it is a long down and by-and-large the turns are broad and sweeping. If anything I pushed harder yesterday as I had a couple of cars stacked up behind me. Anyway, I assume the 5lbs is what makes the bulk of the difference on the climbs, and the air density makes the bulk of the difference on the Neels decent? The power and HR data is consistent through out other parts of the ride as well, and each little difference in time/speed add up to be a total of +5:48. That is a ton of time over a 34 mile course! Is my thinking correct or are their other possible variables that I am maybe missing? Tire pressure was the same, clothing was similar (I had a vest and arm warmers on that although tight fitting, probably caused a little drag). I assume the bike configuration was the same. No changes in bottles or such? Do you have power numbers for/across the whole ride (HR being much more subjective and variable for similar output depending on lots of things)? It's been too long since I've taken physics to ask about total elevation change and try to figure what 5 pounds does across it! That really is a ton of time over that distance, though... Matt |
| 2015-01-23 2:30 PM in reply to: TankBoy |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: SBR "U" Originally posted by TankBoy So I have a somewhat interesting little data anecdote. On my ride in the mountains yesterday I rode the same route at the same effort as I did the loop back in the summer when looking at power, HR, and RPE. This time around the loop I was almost 6 minutes slower. I suffered some junky HR info both at the beginning and end of the ride, but on the two climbs and descents in the middle this is how they compare:
There was a 30 degree F/6.7 degree C temperature difference between the two rides (yesterday was cooler) and I was also 5lbs heavier yesterday than back in July. I know the difference between the Wolfpen descents is largely that I actually rode the twisty descent a lot better yesterday (my counter steering seemed to be "on" for some reason) but the Neels descents are more comparable: it is a long down and by-and-large the turns are broad and sweeping. If anything I pushed harder yesterday as I had a couple of cars stacked up behind me. Anyway, I assume the 5lbs is what makes the bulk of the difference on the climbs, and the air density makes the bulk of the difference on the Neels decent? The power and HR data is consistent through out other parts of the ride as well, and each little difference in time/speed add up to be a total of +5:48. That is a ton of time over a 34 mile course! Is my thinking correct or are their other possible variables that I am maybe missing? Tire pressure was the same, clothing was similar (I had a vest and arm warmers on that although tight fitting, probably caused a little drag). Can you attach power files, aerolab will tell you what is happening. |
| 2015-01-23 2:31 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Subject: RE: SBR "U" Aren't we missing the data from 1/3 of that 34 miles course? Over the climbs, a the deltas don't seem very large to me, accounting for differences in the day, 5# etc Edited by ChrisM 2015-01-23 3:44 PM |
| 2015-01-23 4:12 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Subject: RE: SBR "U" So, feel as though I *might* be crawling out of the hole.... Starting two Tuesdays ago, left lower back went out after a hard swim (!?), so I was out for two days, came back Saturday not 100%, ride and run, but could feel my right hammy tightening up at the end of the ride (and, ironically, the only discomfort on the left side of the back was pressing the right pedal down under stress). All connected to the back, or the back was connected to an earlier tight hamstring.... Sunday morning half hour into the 2 hour run, hammy decided it was done and couldn't run any more. Mild strain, but still tight and painful. Out for three more days. This Wednesday woke up sick with a sinus infection....... Tried to run yesterday, pulled the plug at 5 minutes as it wasn't done But believe things are feeling better today. That's the problem with soft tissue injuries, you can feel asymptomatic during daily routines, but once you start running it fires right back up. So you don't know until you actually try Would love to be able to run Sunday, and hopefully get back in rhythm. Trail marathon 3/15 staring me in the face.... Obviously will bag if time runs out, but there's still a bit of light at the end of the tunnel (plus the marathon is not a run the whole thing PR, but run some and hike some experience it) It's come up before, but dealing with the mental aspects of injury are much worse than the physical aspects (for minor things like this). Trying not to, as my wife says, "grab the bumper" when things go wrong..... Edited by ChrisM 2015-01-23 4:14 PM |
| 2015-01-23 4:14 PM in reply to: marcag |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: SBR "U" |
| 2015-01-23 4:21 PM in reply to: ChrisM |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: SBR "U" Originally posted by ChrisM So, feel as though I *might* be crawling out of the hole.... Starting two Tuesdays ago, left lower back went out after a hard swim (!?), so I was out for two days, came back Saturday not 100%, ride and run, but could feel my right hammy tightening up at the end of the ride (and, ironically, the only discomfort on the left side of the back was pressing the right pedal down under stress). All connected to the back, or the back was connected to an earlier tight hamstring.... Sunday morning half hour into the 2 hour run, hammy decided it was done and couldn't run any more. Mild strain, but still tight and painful. Out for three more days. This Wednesday woke up sick with a sinus infection....... Tried to run yesterday, pulled the plug at 5 minutes as it wasn't done But believe things are feeling better today. That's the problem with soft tissue injuries, you can feel asymptomatic during daily routines, but once you start running it fires right back up. So you don't know until you actually try Would love to be able to run Sunday, and hopefully get back in rhythm. Trail marathon 3/15 staring me in the face.... Obviously will bag if time runs out, but there's still a bit of light at the end of the tunnel (plus the marathon is not a run the whole thing PR, but run some and hike some experience it) It's come up before, but dealing with the mental aspects of injury are much worse than the physical aspects (for minor things like this). Trying not to, as my wife says, "grab the bumper" when things go wrong..... Right there with you! I have more parts that are on their way back to normal or heading toward injured than I do healthy ones, it seems (I know it could be worse, for sure, but it seems that way). Totally gets in your head. Hard thing is to do the right thing for your situation - if only, as you say, because it's hard to know what the right thing is sometimes. Should I not run for a month? Two months? Run easy? Do other stuff? NOT do other stuff? And in the end, you only know you made the right call when you don't get more hurt and can get back to feeling normal. I hope you get on track well enough to participate in and enjoy the race. For those of us not putting food on the table by racing, it's important to remember that we CAN just participate and enjoy the event, even if not the "race" part of it (and I have perhaps more trouble than most with that! But I'm getting better at it, if not by choice). Matt |
| 2015-01-23 6:47 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Master 2621 Mechanicsburg, PA | Subject: RE: SBR "U" 20' power test PowerTap AP 254w NP 255w TSS 27 (with 280w FTP setting) My Computrainer 20' was 288w Avg so something is not right............... |
| 2015-01-23 6:58 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: SBR "U" Originally posted by BrotherTri 20' power test PowerTap AP 254w NP 255w TSS 27 (with 280w FTP setting) My Computrainer 20' was 288w Avg so something is not right............... Did you calibrate/zero the PT ? Look at it in Golden Cheetah to see if there are drops or other. Edited by marcag 2015-01-23 7:05 PM |
| 2015-01-23 7:26 PM in reply to: 0 |
Master 2621 Mechanicsburg, PA | Subject: RE: SBR "U" Yes PT G3 was calibrated. The Garmin 910xt asks when you turn it on. The I re-calibrated through the bike setting after 15' before the 20' test. EDIT 0 drops Edited by BrotherTri 2015-01-23 7:30 PM |
| 2015-01-24 4:15 AM in reply to: BrotherTri |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: SBR "U" I think we have a Powertap conspiracy on our hands! |
| 2015-01-24 4:18 AM in reply to: ChrisM |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: SBR "U" Originally posted by ChrisM So, feel as though I *might* be crawling out of the hole.... Starting two Tuesdays ago, left lower back went out after a hard swim (!?), so I was out for two days, came back Saturday not 100%, ride and run, but could feel my right hammy tightening up at the end of the ride (and, ironically, the only discomfort on the left side of the back was pressing the right pedal down under stress). All connected to the back, or the back was connected to an earlier tight hamstring.... Sunday morning half hour into the 2 hour run, hammy decided it was done and couldn't run any more. Mild strain, but still tight and painful. Out for three more days. This Wednesday woke up sick with a sinus infection....... Tried to run yesterday, pulled the plug at 5 minutes as it wasn't done But believe things are feeling better today. That's the problem with soft tissue injuries, you can feel asymptomatic during daily routines, but once you start running it fires right back up. So you don't know until you actually try Would love to be able to run Sunday, and hopefully get back in rhythm. Trail marathon 3/15 staring me in the face.... Obviously will bag if time runs out, but there's still a bit of light at the end of the tunnel (plus the marathon is not a run the whole thing PR, but run some and hike some experience it) It's come up before, but dealing with the mental aspects of injury are much worse than the physical aspects (for minor things like this). Trying not to, as my wife says, "grab the bumper" when things go wrong..... Chris, I hope you are indeed back on track. It sucks having a race staring you in the face when you can't train for it! |
| 2015-01-24 4:27 AM in reply to: BrotherTri |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: SBR "U" Originally posted by BrotherTri Yes PT G3 was calibrated. The Garmin 910xt asks when you turn it on. The I re-calibrated through the bike setting after 15' before the 20' test. EDIT 0 drops Like Arend, I would do a few workouts tracking them side by side to see if you can get a pattern of a problem. It's tracked equal before so it's not straight out a PT problem. PT support may be able to help If you get it more consistent you can do a "stomp test" on the PT where you attach a weight to the pedal, get a torque value from the PT and you can tell if it's reading properly. |
| 2015-01-25 8:47 AM in reply to: marcag |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: SBR "U" Did a trainer workout with both PMs today - 4 x 10' @ 265w (90%). The AP for the 4 intervals were within 2w of each other which is a good sign but doesn't really give any insight into what happened on Thursday. I'll do a few more like that to see if I can spot anything. |
| 2015-01-25 8:51 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: SBR "U" Originally posted by axteraa Did a trainer workout with both PMs today - 4 x 10' @ 265w (90%). The AP for the 4 intervals were within 2w of each other which is a good sign but doesn't really give any insight into what happened on Thursday. I'll do a few more like that to see if I can spot anything. no autozeros, correct ? I would do workouts with autozeros each interval. If you see them diverge and come back, it's probably the autozero. I would suggest a 3rd PM to confirm which is at fault :-) Edited by marcag 2015-01-25 8:52 AM |
| 2015-01-25 9:05 AM in reply to: marcag |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: SBR "U" Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by axteraa no autozeros, correct ? I would do workouts with autozeros each interval. If you see them diverge and come back, it's probably the autozero. I would suggest a 3rd PM to confirm which is at fault :-) Did a trainer workout with both PMs today - 4 x 10' @ 265w (90%). The AP for the 4 intervals were within 2w of each other which is a good sign but doesn't really give any insight into what happened on Thursday. I'll do a few more like that to see if I can spot anything. One autozero around the 15 min mark (before the 4 x 10). Good thought on zeroing between each interval to see what that does. As for the 3rd PM, I just need you or Rusty to send me your Vectors and I'd be happy to try it! |
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