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2015-03-27 9:22 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Master
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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Okay-really stupid bike question here. My Cervelo P2 came with one water bottle frame, on the down tube. I also put on an aerobottle mount in front. But this isn't nearly enough water for my long training rides now, let alone a HIM. I have to be self-sufficient on my outdoor rides here; I prefer to be in races, except for maybe squeezing more water into the aerobottle if necessary, because my stomach's really picky about what I drink and in what concentration, and they serve all kinds of weird drinks here in SE Asia, most of them way too sweet. Plus, we have a lot of first-timer volunteers at aid stations and they are best avoided for safety reasons.

Anyway, I was about to take the bike to the shop and ask them to add a mount to the seat tube, but looking at it now, I don't think there's room to do so. (It's a size 51, if that matters.) Somehow there is way less seat tube than on my road bike, which is a 52. What do people (well, at least women, or shorter men) do for water on tri bikes in hot conditions like Kona? Do those seat post "torpedo" things really work? It seems like I always hear about water bottles ejecting off the back. I'm not the most coordinated person in the world and not sure I can extricate the bottle from there in race conditions! Any way to mount to the top tube? (Also can't visualize how there's room.) As another option, I have a Profile Design Aquacell (a super-size aerobottle) that I got an a race somewhere. It uses the same mount as the one I have for the smaller one, but I have never used it as it seems like it would make the bike unbalanced if riding in aero when it was full. Has anyone attempted to use this thing on a tri bike? Relative aero-ness of these options??

Or just suck it up and put a water bottle in my jersey or backpack (see previous posts as to why I have a backpack) in training and stop to refill during the actual race? The issue then becomes that the second bottle should also be my electrolyte drink, not water, but I don't want to stop on course to put in the tablet.


2015-03-28 12:32 AM
in reply to: 0

Master
5557
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, California
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by Hot Runner Okay-really stupid bike question here. My Cervelo P2 came with one water bottle frame, on the down tube. I also put on an aerobottle mount in front. But this isn't nearly enough water for my long training rides now, let alone a HIM. I have to be self-sufficient on my outdoor rides here; I prefer to be in races, except for maybe squeezing more water into the aerobottle if necessary, because my stomach's really picky about what I drink and in what concentration, and they serve all kinds of weird drinks here in SE Asia, most of them way too sweet. Plus, we have a lot of first-timer volunteers at aid stations and they are best avoided for safety reasons. Anyway, I was about to take the bike to the shop and ask them to add a mount to the seat tube, but looking at it now, I don't think there's room to do so. (It's a size 51, if that matters.) Somehow there is way less seat tube than on my road bike, which is a 52. What do people (well, at least women, or shorter men) do for water on tri bikes in hot conditions like Kona? Do those seat post "torpedo" things really work? It seems like I always hear about water bottles ejecting off the back. I'm not the most coordinated person in the world and not sure I can extricate the bottle from there in race conditions! Any way to mount to the top tube? (Also can't visualize how there's room.) As another option, I have a Profile Design Aquacell (a super-size aerobottle) that I got an a race somewhere. It uses the same mount as the one I have for the smaller one, but I have never used it as it seems like it would make the bike unbalanced if riding in aero when it was full. Has anyone attempted to use this thing on a tri bike? Relative aero-ness of these options?? Or just suck it up and put a water bottle in my jersey or backpack (see previous posts as to why I have a backpack) in training and stop to refill during the actual race? The issue then becomes that the second bottle should also be my electrolyte drink, not water, but I don't want to stop on course to put in the tablet.

For behind the saddle,

1 bottle: http://xlab-usa.com/delta-300.html

2 bottles: http://xlab-usa.com/sonic-wing.html

(you have to buy gorilla or chimp cages separately if you get the 2 bottle mount)

The x-lab bottle cages are pricey but they really don't launch.

 

For seat tube on a small bike, check with your shop, but a side-entry cage might work.  There are several others; I'm a fan of xlab

http://xlab-usa.com/sidekick.html

Edit: btw, the sidekick cage has a left and right version, but that's for the down tube.  If you put it on the seat tube, get the opposite one (left, if you're right-handed).



Edited by spudone 2015-03-28 12:38 AM
2015-03-28 12:57 AM
in reply to: spudone

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Master
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Eugene, Oregon
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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Thanks--hadn't thought of a side-entry cage but that sounds a lot easier to access than one that's directly behind me! Will see if x-lab stuff is available locally. Not sure why I didn't think of this before I went home at Tet, but I hadn't been riding the bike outside so guess I never noticed the lack of a second cage, or the impossibility of mounting a regular one! Presumably one wants the opposite side so the dominant hand controls the bike while reaching for the bottle?? I'll have to think about this as I'm kind of ambidextrous when it comes to sports (meaning, I'm equally clumsy with either hand!)
2015-03-28 6:31 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

I have a sonic wing that is made especially for the P2. I have my P2 at the cottage and there is 0 support on long rides. There is an xlab especially made for the P2 and screws into the saddle post.

I never lost bottles, granted thr roads are not that bad and I use the xlab cages.

If it's a training ride you can use elastics to keep them in place.

Try to keep the bottles as close as possible to the seat to not pay an aero penalty

Edited by marcag 2015-03-28 6:32 AM
2015-03-28 7:54 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Veteran
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Houston, Texas
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

I also have an x-lab sonic wing mounted behind the saddle with two bottle cages (with one bottle cage and regular bottle mounted between my aero bars).  I have lost one bottle from the rear set-up -- it was in a race with bumpy roads.  I don't know when I lost it, but I reached back to grab it and realized it was gone.  Anyways, now when I go over bumpy sections (for example, there's a couple sets of railroad tracks we go over, where I've seen people eject bottles in the past), I reach back and check if they're still securely in place.

As for being able to grab bottles from behind you, it's a skill you'd have to work on, but it can be done....trust me, I'm not exactly the most coordinated and I can now do it without even leaving aero!  Practice it on the trainer before practicing it outside. 

2015-03-28 8:03 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

Master
10208
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Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

I've used duct tape strips on the inside of the cages to help things hold better. Also got in the habit of checking the bottles every now and then.

I haven't done a race long enough to warrant this in some time. Long rides I've just used a camelbak or it was an event and 2 bottles has been fine, refilling at the various stops.



2015-03-28 8:13 AM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Master
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Eugene, Oregon
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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Thanks--I will have to see what, if anything, is available here that is compatible with the bike. It really varies--sometimes one can find (for a price) really good stuff and at other times the shops are out of even the basics (bike computers, electrolyte tabs). Will stick with the spare bottle in the jersey or backpack for tomorrow. Kind of concerned about ejection as our roads aren't really first world here. It's not bumpy gravel, and the industrial park is pretty good, but I do have to negotiate a speed bump on every lap and a couple of speed strips on the way to the park, and I could see the bottle go flying in that situation! The race is on major roads in/around Danang but again, the surface is probably not up to the standards of major US or Singapore races.

Heat is getting ridiculous here. For the past several days, the published "low" temp has been 80, but I don't know when that's happening. Maybe 2 AM? I check the temps when I get up (usually 4:30-4:45 AM) and it's already 85 or 86. Highs are in the mid to upper 90's. Thanks goodness it's still a fairly dry heat; the humidity comes next before rainy season finally arrives with a bang (usually sometime in early May). This AM was quite breezy which made for passable running weather, so guessing there will be more "Kona" in the industrial park tomorrow.
2015-03-28 10:02 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Master
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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
On my old p2 I also had a double rear bottle mount designed to bolt into the two small holes at the rear of the seat post - can't remember the brand, but several companies used to make them. Never used it in a race, but would put it on when doing long, remote IM traing rides in the billion degree Georgia heat. On solo long rides I actually hate stopping and on a handful of my favorite long routes there are zero store stops so I would also have two more bottles on the frame, one BTA, and at least one more in my jersey pocket. While some of these routes don't have store stops, they do average about one church for every 5.3 residents, so you are never really far from what we call "holy water," ie: a church with a hose spigot.

Anyway, In your case I would probably just zip tie a singe bottle behind the seat (the more horizontal you get it the less likely it is to eject, and it is most likely faster), and put one on the frame (if you only can fit one) and one BTA,then if you need a 4th put it in your jersey. Since you mentioned it, the front triangle on my road bike is smallish, and I do use the "side kick" bottle holders. They make the black ones in left and right versions, so you can mount them to the seat and down tubes and still have them release to the same side (you need a left and right as one is mounted backwards from the other) - this is the way my wife's bike is set up. I wanted white ones, and those only come in "right" so the one on the down tube releases to the right and the one on the seat releases to the left. The things we do for vanity!

2015-03-28 10:28 AM
in reply to: Asalzwed

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Master
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...at home in The ATL
Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Originally posted by Asalzwed

Whaaaaaaaa? Out of the team budget or do they split cash prize money? That is amazing if the former! 

And we are talking overall podium?

The former, sort of. I race for one of the two tri-specific "pro" shops in town. I think they both have similar arrangements with their sponsored athletes: no fee to be a team member like club teams, but there is a competitve annual application process where they look at race performance and activity/visability in the local multisport community. For podiums (OA, masters, and AG) we get race fees cash reimbursed. We also get additional store credit for podiums, tiered according to placement. We get a regular 15% store discount anytime and once a year what they call our "pro" deal: 35% off anything they carry or can order. We are just not allowed to sell any pro-deal items for 12 months. We get a bike fitting each year from one of the best guys around, and all kinds of training and racing kit up. This year we got two tri kits, two road kits, racing singlets, t-shirts, visors, a hoodie, and even a trucker cap!

As our responsibility we have 10 team races of which we have to do at least 5, and 4 cycling and 4 running events of which we have to do at least one of each. We also do a team charity event every year, and have to volunteer for at least one race each season. It is a pretty good gig all-around.

2015-03-28 10:40 AM
in reply to: TankBoy

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Master
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...at home in The ATL
Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Today is a pretty good day so far: I got my notice in the mail that I made USAT All-American, and I got the results from my USAT Youth and Junior coaching test (I passed) so I suppose that is official. We have joined up with the big local adult tri-club in town and folding our youth coaching in with them in order to piggyback on their training resources. We are adding a second in-town neighborhood to the structure and are capping the groups to 25 kids in each neighborhood. Very excited, but it's gonna be a busy summer!
2015-03-29 2:17 AM
in reply to: 0

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Master
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Eugene, Oregon
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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Going to investigate water bottle cage options NOW. OMG even the two 750 ml bottles plus my regular aerobottle plus about half a liter of water and juice afterward was not enough for a 2:30 ride (I did the first hour indoors on the trainer, both to skip the shift change, reduce the amount of water I needed to carry, and because 3:30 solo in the industrial park is just too much). 97 with a heat index of 103 when I finished my ride....and then there was the 50-minute brick run. On the plus side, I'm really acclimatized to this stuff (thus the username) so actually finished the workout without major heat issues, but cannot believe how much water/electrolyte drink/juice has gone into my body and I think I am still a bitl dehydrated!

Also on the plus side (oh happy day) Ritter Sport dark chocolate with peppermint survives way better than milk chocolate, so got to enjoy that for my munchies at 1:30 and 2 hours. (Details of my chocolate experiment on Iron Distance form.)

Funny about "holy water"--I would do that in the US! Oddly, there is a small temple at one end of the park, and the caretaker occasionally has a hose out for dog or motorbike washing, but even if it's "holy", it's not potable!

Edited by Hot Runner 2015-03-29 2:44 AM


2015-03-29 5:21 AM
in reply to: spudone

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Master
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Eugene, Oregon
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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Alas nothing at the more local LBS. They only have a behind the seatpost mount for a road bike and it does not fit the P2 seatpost (we tried). Texted the other shop, whose owner did my fitting for the tri bike (a $25 round trip taxi ride) but haven't heard back yet. If it doesn't work out, seriously thinking about doing the bike leg wearing a jersey with two bottles in it. I have a very light jersey that I've twice worn comfortably over my tri suit (2XU onesie with some kind of cooling fiber in it) for a tropical race (62 km bike leg with little shade). I just think the time I'd waste trying to refill bottles and mix electrolyte drink, or the risks I'd take stopping at aid stations and drinking weird stuff, might make that the better option. Of course, ejection is always a risk with bottles in the jersey, but I've been lucky lately in training......
2015-03-29 5:23 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Elite
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PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Can you just ziptie something behind the saddle?  Depending on how you have it setup it can work very well.

2015-03-29 5:32 AM
in reply to: axteraa

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Master
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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
I can't visualize how this would work. Maybe should check out Youtube?? I guess I was visualizing the zip tie as a reinforcer on an existing mount,, but now I realize you mean the serious plastic ones, not the little ones that keep bread packages closed. I'll be the first to admit....I am a bike idiot! LBS does have the plastic zip-ties.....usually!
2015-03-29 5:35 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Elite
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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Yup, just a cage ziptied to the saddle.  Something like this.

2015-03-29 5:39 AM
in reply to: 0

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Master
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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Thanks--I will take this pic to the LBS and see what we can do. Hopefully Vietnam is not out of zip ties this month! Saddle mount would work better than seat tube mount for training as I move the seat up and down a lot (lower it when I am riding on the road to access the park; raise it for park and trainer).

Edited by Hot Runner 2015-03-29 5:40 AM


2015-03-29 5:49 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Master
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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Here is mine as well - just like Arend's. 3 heavy tiptoes.

A little bit of trouble you may run in to depending on how your seat is positioned is that the p2 seatpost flares out at the top. If your seat is slid way forward it might get in the way of the cage somewhat.

2015-03-29 5:56 AM
in reply to: TankBoy

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Here is one of Rusty's early prototypes

2015-03-29 6:24 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Master
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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Really could have used that today! Just liberated a Profile Design cage from my road bike and think I can see a way to mount it to the seat tube. Not sure about saddle mount..

It is just crazy hot here. Getting dark and still so hot I'm pouring sweat every time I step outside the AC living room. Whatever was IM thinking to put Vietnam 70.3 in May???? We were speculating at the bike shop--maybe they think we have seasons like in the US and they are avoiding summer heat? May 10 will either be the absolute hottest week of the year, or at the start of rainy season. It would even be conceivable that rainy season would arrive during the race. I keep track of the first rain of the season (which is usually a big one) year to year and it reliably hits between May 1 and 15. If it's going to do that, just hope it's during the run, not swim or bike!
2015-03-29 6:51 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Elite
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PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Can you post a picture of what your saddle and seatpost look like?  I'm thinking you probably want to attach it to the saddle rails at least once to avoid slippage.

2015-03-29 6:52 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Master
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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Ha-ha - spot-on, Marc, except that is not for biking - I use that for my beer miles. Safety first, I always say. Oh, and if I am drinking PBRs I would definitly have it loaded up with double-dueces. Well worth the aero penalty....


2015-03-29 8:38 AM
in reply to: 0

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Master
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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Will attempt in the morning--poor lighting in that room at night and pics should be clearer in daylight. My saddle (Adamo Typhoon) is quite short, and more forward than the ones pictured (though not nearly all the way forward) so that might be an issue with attaching.

Edited by Hot Runner 2015-03-29 8:43 AM
2015-03-29 6:43 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Attempting to attach pic.
ETA the strap on top is a "bike thong" for the trainer!

Edited by Hot Runner 2015-03-29 6:58 PM




(image.jpg)



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image.jpg (1416KB - 3 downloads)
2015-03-29 9:00 PM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Your saddle position in relation to the seat post looks very similar to my 2007 P2.  I cannot zip tie a cage to the saddle rails because of this, and I think you may run into the same troubles as I did.  It looks like your best bet will be some form of wing that attaches to the two holes as Marc mentioned.

As far as cages, $20 for Specialized Rib cages.  Just trust me on this one.  

 

2015-03-30 7:43 AM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Originally posted by Jason N
 It looks like your best bet will be some form of wing that attaches to the two holes as Marc mentioned.


If you can find someone that could cut a small piece of sheet metal, bend it and drill you could easily make a wing that you could attach a bottle holder to.
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