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2015-01-15 4:54 AM


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Subject: Training recommendations for first 50k
I'm taking a break from triathlon in 2015. I have several marathons, half marathons, and long distance OWS events on my calendar so far. With the open training time (no biking) I thought it would be an adventure to do a 50k and maybe some day a 50 miler. Yikes.

How did you train for your first longer distance running event? Did you concentrate on running trails or a combination of long road runs with some trail days? How do road miles translate to trail miles?

I feel like I have endurance but a long running event seems daunting.

Thanks!



2015-01-15 7:18 AM
in reply to: sthoresen

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Subject: RE: Training recommendations for first 50k
I trained for my first 50k by using the Higdon Novice 2 marathon plan, ran a marathon, then two weeks later ran the North Face Endurance Challenge Utah 50k. It only took me twice as long to run the 50k as the marathon

Seriously it wasn't a great plan, but I still enjoyed it. I faded pretty badly after 16 miles, but I was fatigued from the marathon, not used to the altitude (+4500 to 7500ft above my training altitude), and most importantly I was wearing cycling tights (worst idea ever). So I slogged my way through a 7:22 and change 50k

I am running my 2nd 50k this Saturday. This time I stepped into the Higdon Intermediate 1 marathon plan. I bumped up the mileage by about 10% over the plan on everything except the 20 mile runs. I left those at 20 simply because I'm a sissy.

I'll let you know how Saturday goes, If I were running the same course with the same weather I would bet money I could get down to 6:45 (and probably much better than that) for the course, mostly due to NOT running a marathon two weeks before. I don't expect to see a much better time due to the course I will be running, it is going to be a slick, muddy, sticky clay course, but it will still be awesome!
2015-01-15 8:42 AM
in reply to: Mtnwesttri

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Subject: RE: Training recommendations for first 50k

For me, simply put I ran.  I ran a lot.  When I was tired I ran, then ran some more.  Seriously, I ran a lot (at least for me).  I think that a solid foundations is key, not all runs need to be huge runs, but you need consistency.  I found that I benefit the most from running 7 days a week, minimum of 2 miles. 

It is key to train on trails if it is a trail race, trail running is a different beast in of its self.  While I think road miles translate fine for endurance, they don't for things like footing, watching out for potholes, tree roots, etc...

Just my 2 cents

Good Luck!!

2015-01-26 2:36 PM
in reply to: sthoresen

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Subject: RE: Training recommendations for first 50k

For marathons, the training path is well worn and understood.  For ultra's, there's much more variation depending on the course, your running background and goals.

To the first order, think of the training plan a lot like a marathon plan, where you establish a solid base of miles and slowly increase.  Increasing miles for 3 weeks and then backing down a week is the standard.  However, listening to your body is the most important, as consistency and avoiding injury is paramount to building the 'time on your feet' endurance.

If it's a trail ultra, then I highly recommend doing your long runs on trails.  You can still do some speed work on the road to get in some above threshold work, but your weekend long trail run should be at LSD/ultra pace.  The other benefit of doing long trail runs is learning your equipment needs.  What kind of trail shoes, hydration system and clothing works for you in that 'different' environment.  Plus- developing the agility and attention needed to run rough trails, as well as the muscle development for steep ups and downs.  Trail running requires a lot of focus for long periods of time.  

I don't think road miles translate into trail miles.  Yes- keep running roads, as the hard, higher speed pounding is good portion of the development you'll need.  But to some extent, it's really about time on your feet.

oh- hint:  it's ok to walk the steeps.  I realize that's a hard barrier to overcome if you're a road runner (as I mostly am).  I feel guilty every time I do it... but do it.

2015-02-04 4:25 PM
in reply to: morey000

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Subject: RE: Training recommendations for first 50k
I've only done one 50km so take this with a pinch of salt - if its a trail race then concentrate as much as you can on running trails similar to what the race is on - it changes everything and road miles don't really cross over in my opinion.You sound like you'll have the requency of training built up so that shouldn't be an issue, practice being more self sufficient as ultras tend to have longer gaps between aid stations. Good luck with it!
2015-02-05 6:54 AM
in reply to: sthoresen

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Subject: RE: Training recommendations for first 50k

Road miles =/= trail miles.  

Train on terrain similar to your event.  Expect to slow down on the trail.  Does the race have creek crossings?  Many do, and you'll want some miles with soaking wet feet.  

You'll have different fueling options (ultras often have a huge variety of foods you wouldn't expect when running).  I think of them as outdoor buffets!  

Distance wise, a 50K isn't substantially longer than a marathon, so you can do OK following a marathon plan conducted on terrain similar to the ultra.  You might have an additional run or two 20+ miles and you might consider doing some 8-10 mile runs the day after an 18-20 mile run.  (If possible, do your long run in the evening and the second run the next morning.)  

Ultra running is a different mindset than road running.  Most ultra runners will run by time not distance.  They'll do a "5 hour run" which translates into "start the watch, run, walk, stop and wait for the group, run, stop to fuel, run, walk, wait, run, get back to where you started and stop the watch."  This is a far cry from my road running strategy where I pause my watch if I'm waiting 10 seconds for a traffic light.  



2015-02-06 9:37 PM
in reply to: McFuzz

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Subject: RE: Training recommendations for first 50k

I've completed 6-50K....all on trails, and 5 withing a 10 month time period.  I can't tell you how to do them fast, but I can share experience on how to finish and how to stay uninjured.  You didn't mention your age, or previous running, or trail running experience.  I have to warn you, once you start running on the trails you will find it hard to go back to roads.  And, if you spend any significant time with the laid-back amazingly supportive trail running community, you will find it difficult to transition back to triathlon.  That said, here's a few initial thoughts.

The previous posters offered some good insights, and I'm probably going to repeat some here, but they're important.

1.  DO NOT try to run every day unless you are under 30 years old and/or a super human athlete.  You WILL injure yourself.  When you start doing looooong trail runs, you are going to hurt in all kinds of places you didn't know exist.  Keep cross training.  The pool can be your best friend.

2.  Honor the long run, don't rush it, and DON'T SKIP IT.  And like the other poster said, back it up with a 5-6 miler the next day as you get further along in your training plan. 

3.  Learn to eat while you run.  Practice it, and practice different types of foods so you know what works for you.  You can't survive on gels. You will find things like PBJs, trail mix (which I can't digest while running), oreo cookies, m&ms, potato chips, boiled potato chunks with salt to dip them in (these are awesome), chicken broth (sometimes), oranges, bananas, flat coke, grilled cheese, and I've even been to a race where they were grilling burgers at one of the aid stops.  I usually trust my gut and eat what looks good to me from the buffet that's in front of me, and put a few things in my pockets to take with me.  I will pick up a gel just as insurance, but I rarely use them during Ultras.

4.  Learn to run in crappy weather and learn to love it.  I've encountered races where I was running in slimy mud and thigh deep water on a day where the temps were hovering around 30 degree.  I've also seen slippery packed snow, and blazing hot loose sand.  The worse the weather, the better your going to place because some people will stay home :-)

5.  Remember on a run that's over 30 miles long, you are going to hurt.  But the good news is the things that hurt at mile 20 may not hurt at mile 25, and the pains will come and go.  I call them rotating pains. 

6.  Take some time during the race and do a "systems check", and attend to problems before they get serious.  Draw attention to different parts of your body, and ask yourself how you're feeling.  Are you getting a hot spot that's going to turn into a blister? (foot problems often end in a DNF)  Any signs of cramping?  How's your back and shoulders?  Do you need to work on your posture (it's a long day)?  How are the knees and hips?  Sometimes after about mile 25 your mind turns to mush. Try to focus on what DOESN'T hurt.  and remind yourself that you only have a 10k to go. 

7.  Do not wear a watch that beeps (someone might be driven to feed you to a bear), or ear buds in both ears.  You need to be aware of what's going on around you.  There might be mountain bikers, hikers, runners passing you (heaven forbid).  Pay attention, and better yet, spend some time talking with the other runners.  Did I mention the trail running community is AWESOME. 

8.  Don't try to compare road miles or times to trail.  They just don't convert.  One trail doesn't even convert very well to another trail.  There are just too many variables on the trail.  You may be 2 minutes/mile slower on the trails.  It doesn't matter.  It will drive you nuts if you expect to run trails the way you run roads.

9.  Embrace the power-hike.  Many many trail runners will walk the uphills.  Only the best, most elite, runners will run the uphills.  Unless your one of them, you might find you can hike uphill almost as fast as you can run it.  Another benefit of walking some is it works different muscle groups and gives others a break. 

10.  Enjoy the journey.  Most of us aren't ever going to make a living through multi-sport, or trail running, so live it up and love it for what it teaches you about yourself and for the friendships you will make along the way. 

Example Training Plan -- This was the plan that I used, but there are tons of these types of plans online.  Find one that works for you and modify it as needed. 

Ultra Running --  More than you will need to know, but a great resource.

Best of Luck!  Feel free to get in touch with me if there are any other questions that come up.

2015-10-11 10:15 AM
in reply to: jfought

Subject: RE: Training recommendations for first 50k
Originally posted by jfought

I've completed 6-50K....all on trails, and 5 withing a 10 month time period.  I can't tell you how to do them fast, but I can share experience on how to finish and how to stay uninjured.  You didn't mention your age, or previous running, or trail running experience.  I have to warn you, once you start running on the trails you will find it hard to go back to roads.  And, if you spend any significant time with the laid-back amazingly supportive trail running community, you will find it difficult to transition back to triathlon.  That said, here's a few initial thoughts.

The previous posters offered some good insights, and I'm probably going to repeat some here, but they're important.

1.  DO NOT try to run every day unless you are under 30 years old and/or a super human athlete.  You WILL injure yourself.  When you start doing looooong trail runs, you are going to hurt in all kinds of places you didn't know exist.  Keep cross training.  The pool can be your best friend.

2.  Honor the long run, don't rush it, and DON'T SKIP IT.  And like the other poster said, back it up with a 5-6 miler the next day as you get further along in your training plan. 

3.  Learn to eat while you run.  Practice it, and practice different types of foods so you know what works for you.  You can't survive on gels. You will find things like PBJs, trail mix (which I can't digest while running), oreo cookies, m&ms, potato chips, boiled potato chunks with salt to dip them in (these are awesome), chicken broth (sometimes), oranges, bananas, flat coke, grilled cheese, and I've even been to a race where they were grilling burgers at one of the aid stops.  I usually trust my gut and eat what looks good to me from the buffet that's in front of me, and put a few things in my pockets to take with me.  I will pick up a gel just as insurance, but I rarely use them during Ultras.

4.  Learn to run in crappy weather and learn to love it.  I've encountered races where I was running in slimy mud and thigh deep water on a day where the temps were hovering around 30 degree.  I've also seen slippery packed snow, and blazing hot loose sand.  The worse the weather, the better your going to place because some people will stay home :-)

5.  Remember on a run that's over 30 miles long, you are going to hurt.  But the good news is the things that hurt at mile 20 may not hurt at mile 25, and the pains will come and go.  I call them rotating pains. 

6.  Take some time during the race and do a "systems check", and attend to problems before they get serious.  Draw attention to different parts of your body, and ask yourself how you're feeling.  Are you getting a hot spot that's going to turn into a blister? (foot problems often end in a DNF)  Any signs of cramping?  How's your back and shoulders?  Do you need to work on your posture (it's a long day)?  How are the knees and hips?  Sometimes after about mile 25 your mind turns to mush. Try to focus on what DOESN'T hurt.  and remind yourself that you only have a 10k to go. 

7.  Do not wear a watch that beeps (someone might be driven to feed you to a bear), or ear buds in both ears.  You need to be aware of what's going on around you.  There might be mountain bikers, hikers, runners passing you (heaven forbid).  Pay attention, and better yet, spend some time talking with the other runners.  Did I mention the trail running community is AWESOME. 

8.  Don't try to compare road miles or times to trail.  They just don't convert.  One trail doesn't even convert very well to another trail.  There are just too many variables on the trail.  You may be 2 minutes/mile slower on the trails.  It doesn't matter.  It will drive you nuts if you expect to run trails the way you run roads.

9.  Embrace the power-hike.  Many many trail runners will walk the uphills.  Only the best, most elite, runners will run the uphills.  Unless your one of them, you might find you can hike uphill almost as fast as you can run it.  Another benefit of walking some is it works different muscle groups and gives others a break. 

10.  Enjoy the journey.  Most of us aren't ever going to make a living through multi-sport, or trail running, so live it up and love it for what it teaches you about yourself and for the friendships you will make along the way. 

Example Training Plan -- This was the plan that I used, but there are tons of these types of plans online.  Find one that works for you and modify it as needed. 

Ultra Running --  More than you will need to know, but a great resource.

Best of Luck!  Feel free to get in touch with me if there are any other questions that come up.




Great post, I am trying to get back to trails for next spring. At 51 I am running about every other day, if I am really sore I listen to the knees or hips and skip a day. The one consistent thing I am doing,is when my run is done, I am pulling a tire down the road in a walk. Not really to sure how it is helping, but I do feel it in different parts of the legs and hips.
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