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2015-01-26 8:06 PM

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Westminster, Colorado
Subject: Beginner 1/2 Ironman - 20 Weeks - RPE Questions
For users that have used this training plan, can you please answer some of my questions? TIA


1. There are a ton of days with two different sport type workouts. For example a 30 min swim and a 1 hour bike. Were you treating these as a brick and doing one right after the other? Were you doing one workout in the morning and one at night? What's the best solution here?

2. I am able to do the recommended distances (Start this program if you can consistently swim 40min, run 60min and bike 90min.). However, I have not been doing two disciplines on the same day. What was your experience with the plan?



2015-01-27 6:32 AM
in reply to: rhetbehler

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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman - 20 Weeks - RPE Questions
Normally I did them as separate workouts, begore and after work, unless the plan specifically mentioned doing them together (for example, some bike-run bricks and a few race simulations with all three sports in order). Occasionally I did them back to back if that was the only way to get them done given my work schedule or other time committments. At times I also switched the workouts around to different days because I have pretty tight constraints over when I can use the pool or bike on the road. I doubt it really matters as long as you are not putting too many long/intense workouts (particularly for bike and run) close together and this sabotaging recovery, and you are getting in the training comsistently with a routine that works for you.
2015-01-27 12:08 PM
in reply to: rhetbehler

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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman - 20 Weeks - RPE Questions

I just started the program yesterday.  I have made some modifications to the plan similar to what HR mentioned.

So, for the most part if the workouts are meant to be part of a back to back effort the plan will detail that.  If not, I do the workouts as is convenient.  I might do them with a short break in between or wait an hour or two.  Just depends on my schedule.  I always swim during lunch so pretty much any back to back sessions are out for me.  I work around it. 

I would not worry to much about not having done multiple sessions in one day.  The first weeks of the plan are designed to acclimate you to this by starting to piece sessions together but with fairly low effort levels.

Be sure you understand the RPE definitions and try to stick with them. 

2015-01-28 10:37 AM
in reply to: popsracer

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Westminster, Colorado
Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman - 20 Weeks - RPE Questions
Thanks for the replies. I started the program yesterday and I'm going to try and separate out the multiple workout days per your recommendations. I have been training for over a year and half but the longest duration I have worked out during that time is a 2 hour bike. Like I said above, I can do all the recommended distances but doing multiple workouts per day is going to be something I have to get used to. I was EXTREMELY tired yesterday but I have recovered well today. I have day 2 workout today, 30 min. run and 60 min. bike. I plan on taking it easy per the RPE recommendations. Thanks for the tip popsracer and Hot Runner.
2015-01-28 11:42 AM
in reply to: rhetbehler

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114
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Minneapolis, Minnesota
Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman - 20 Weeks - RPE Questions
I just started the 20 week program on monday was well. So far so good, since the weather is usually cold and snow here in minnesota i plan on doing spin classes for the bike and just stay for an extra hr or so if need be. I plan on doing all my swims in the morning for the next couple months, it makes the evenings easier for running and biking.

Which race are you training for?
2015-01-28 12:13 PM
in reply to: slides

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Westminster, Colorado
Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman - 20 Weeks - RPE Questions
I'm training for the 70.3 Boise, Idaho. My first day has me concerned though because I was so tired. However, I realize it was just one day and I can't judge my conditioning yet. What race are you training for?


2015-01-28 2:07 PM
in reply to: rhetbehler

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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman - 20 Weeks - RPE Questions

Originally posted by rhetbehler I'm training for the 70.3 Boise, Idaho. My first day has me concerned though because I was so tired. However, I realize it was just one day and I can't judge my conditioning yet. What race are you training for?

Cool.  I'm doing Boise too.  This will be my third time there so if you have any questions about the course, etc. let me know. 

2015-01-28 2:38 PM
in reply to: popsracer

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Westminster, Colorado
Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman - 20 Weeks - RPE Questions
Originally posted by popsracer


Cool.  I'm doing Boise too.  This will be my third time there so if you have any questions about the course, etc. let me know.


I've heard the bike course is difficult, is this true? How were the temperatures and weather for you the last 3 years?
2015-01-28 3:38 PM
in reply to: 0

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114
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Minneapolis, Minnesota
Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman - 20 Weeks - RPE Questions
Originally posted by rhetbehler

I'm training for the 70.3 Boise, Idaho. My first day has me concerned though because I was so tired. However, I realize it was just one day and I can't judge my conditioning yet. What race are you training for?


Boulder 70.3 and lousiville in Oct. Im doing both 20 week BT plans and basically doing the 20 week 70.3 plan and then right into the 140.6 plan but at week 17. So 37 weeks on continous training, im pretty pumped!



Edited by slides 2015-01-28 3:39 PM
2015-01-28 4:03 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman - 20 Weeks - RPE Questions

Originally posted by rhetbehler
Originally posted by popsracer
Cool.  I'm doing Boise too.  This will be my third time there so if you have any questions about the course, etc. let me know.
I've heard the bike course is difficult, is this true? How were the temperatures and weather for you the last 3 years?

Here is a picture on the bike course the first year I was there.  The second time was even worse.  Course shortened due to snow on part of it.  It can be warm and sunny one day and miserable the next that time of year in Boise.  Weather is a crap shoot.

The bike course is not as tough as other 70.3 courses.  Elevation gain is only about 1400 feet and there is a net elevation loss of a few hundred feet as T2 is lower than T1 (it's a point to point course).   There are a few hills but no major climbs and the last miles are all downhill..



Edited by popsracer 2015-01-28 4:09 PM
2015-01-29 8:34 PM
in reply to: popsracer

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Westminster, Colorado
Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman - 20 Weeks - RPE Questions
Originally posted by popsracer

Originally posted by rhetbehler
Originally posted by popsracer
Cool.  I'm doing Boise too.  This will be my third time there so if you have any questions about the course, etc. let me know.
I've heard the bike course is difficult, is this true? How were the temperatures and weather for you the last 3 years?

Here is a picture on the bike course the first year I was there.  The second time was even worse.  Course shortened due to snow on part of it.  It can be warm and sunny one day and miserable the next that time of year in Boise.  Weather is a crap shoot.

The bike course is not as tough as other 70.3 courses.  Elevation gain is only about 1400 feet and there is a net elevation loss of a few hundred feet as T2 is lower than T1 (it's a point to point course).   There are a few hills but no major climbs and the last miles are all downhill..




Wow! Well I'm hoping for much better weather than your experience. popsracer have you used the Beginner 1/2 ironman training plan before for Boise? If so, can you talk a little about the distances and tapering? If I'm understanding the plan correctly, it doesn't seem like I would be doing the 56 mile bike or the 13.1 mile run until late April or early May. Is this correct? Will I have enough experience with the distances to feel comfortable during the race?


2015-01-30 3:26 AM
in reply to: rhetbehler

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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman - 20 Weeks - RPE Questions
I used the plan to train for my first HIM. As I recall, not only did the rides take their time getting to race distance, they were also based on time. I'm not a very fast biker, so I believe I may never have gotten to race distance by strictly following the plan! I modified the plan for long rides so that I had built up to long rides of 90-100 km well before the race, I think by late March for a race that was originally planned for late June. I don't recall a problem with the run, but maybe it does build up kind of suddenly late in the game, so I may have built up gradually by 10 minutes a week instead.

I had horrible luck with weather as well--my original goal race was at altitude in Oregon and there was unseasonably cold, wet weather. The bike was cut to about 29 miles owing to SNOW (no kidding ) at upper elevations, and I opted for the duathlon instead as air temps were in low 40's, water below 60, and even in wetsuit I was absolutely miserable when I did a practice swim the day before. Since it wasn't a "real" HIM, I treated that one more as a pacing workout, and did an actual HIM elsewhere in warm, dry conditions a month later. So I think I had four months of race-distance rides, mostly with brick runs. Kind of overkill but I had a very weak background in biking so I think it was really useful.
2015-01-31 12:23 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Westminster, Colorado
Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman - 20 Weeks - RPE Questions
Originally posted by Hot Runner

I used the plan to train for my first HIM. As I recall, not only did the rides take their time getting to race distance, they were also based on time. I'm not a very fast biker, so I believe I may never have gotten to race distance by strictly following the plan! I modified the plan for long rides so that I had built up to long rides of 90-100 km well before the race, I think by late March for a race that was originally planned for late June. I don't recall a problem with the run, but maybe it does build up kind of suddenly late in the game, so I may have built up gradually by 10 minutes a week instead.

I had horrible luck with weather as well--my original goal race was at altitude in Oregon and there was unseasonably cold, wet weather. The bike was cut to about 29 miles owing to SNOW (no kidding ) at upper elevations, and I opted for the duathlon instead as air temps were in low 40's, water below 60, and even in wetsuit I was absolutely miserable when I did a practice swim the day before. Since it wasn't a "real" HIM, I treated that one more as a pacing workout, and did an actual HIM elsewhere in warm, dry conditions a month later. So I think I had four months of race-distance rides, mostly with brick runs. Kind of overkill but I had a very weak background in biking so I think it was really useful.


I'm very concerned with the bike as I have a weak background and it's my least favorite sport. I am going to increase the long runs and rides by 10% each week to help gradually increase my distances. I will also make sure to complete the HIM distances in each sport a couple of times before the race. Thanks for the advice.
2015-01-31 12:25 AM
in reply to: rhetbehler

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Westminster, Colorado
Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman - 20 Weeks - RPE Questions
@popsracer have you used the Beginner 1/2 ironman training plan before for Boise? If so, can you talk a little about the distances and tapering? If I'm understanding the plan correctly, it doesn't seem like I would be doing the 56 mile bike or the 13.1 mile run until late April or early May. Is this correct? Will I have enough experience with the distances to feel comfortable during the race?
2015-01-31 1:26 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman - 20 Weeks - RPE Questions

Originally posted by rhetbehler @popsracer have you used the Beginner 1/2 ironman training plan before for Boise? If so, can you talk a little about the distances and tapering? If I'm understanding the plan correctly, it doesn't seem like I would be doing the 56 mile bike or the 13.1 mile run until late April or early May. Is this correct? Will I have enough experience with the distances to feel comfortable during the race?

I've used the plan twice for Boise and twice for Hawaii 70.3 though each time I change a few things depending on my schedule and what else I'm training for leading up to the HIM.  I usually do some other running races in the Winter/Spring that I work in.  Running has been my weakness relative to my age group so I've really worked hard on it the last few years.

Don't worry too much about the longer distance workouts.  What is more important is that you consistently get the full workload in each week.  Trust the plan.  It will provide you with enough fitness to comfortably finish the race.  During each phase of the plan you will build up cumulative fatigue from the various workouts each week.  There will be times that you will be tired from the day before or a session earlier in the day.  On race day after a proper taper you will be surprised at how strong you feel after allowing your body to rest up.

The two keys to an HIM are pacing and nutrition/hydration.  These are things that you work on during your long rides and runs.  Again, don't worry about the fitness part of the long workouts.  If you do all the other work you'll be just fine.  Are you riding outside or on the trainer?  I think this can make a difference on your longer rides as well. 

One last thing that I have seen too many times is pushing the paces early in the plan and developing overuse injuries.  Keep the efforts easy at first and be patient.  In a few weeks you will start to feel a lot faster and stronger.  Resist the urge to start pushing your paces.  It is a long haul to get through the entire plan and no one workout or effort will make or break your race.   



Edited by popsracer 2015-01-31 1:38 AM
2015-02-03 10:57 PM
in reply to: popsracer

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Westminster, Colorado
Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman - 20 Weeks - RPE Questions
Originally posted by popsracer


Are you riding outside or on the trainer?

I will be doing 50/50 probably.

Resist the urge to start pushing your paces. It is a long haul to get through the entire plan and no one workout or effort will make or break your race.

I'm going to keep my paces and efforts down. The only thing I am going to modify is to slowly increase my durations over the individual phases instead of jumping 20-30% at a time defined by the current program. I'm going to slowly move up my durations so I'm not risking injury on such large jumps.

Thanks for the great advice. Any advice on nutrition? Anything you did differently leading up to the actual event?


2015-02-04 11:42 AM
in reply to: rhetbehler

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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman - 20 Weeks - RPE Questions

Originally posted by rhetbehler
Originally posted by popsracer
Are you riding outside or on the trainer?
I will be doing 50/50 probably.
Resist the urge to start pushing your paces. It is a long haul to get through the entire plan and no one workout or effort will make or break your race.
I'm going to keep my paces and efforts down. The only thing I am going to modify is to slowly increase my durations over the individual phases instead of jumping 20-30% at a time defined by the current program. I'm going to slowly move up my durations so I'm not risking injury on such large jumps. Thanks for the great advice. Any advice on nutrition? Anything you did differently leading up to the actual event?

The most important thing about nutrition is that everyone is different and only you can figure out what is right for you.  The best way to do this is trial and error over time primarily via your long runs and rides.  You may not feel that you need the nutrition or hydration to get through the specific session but it is important to use the opportunity to learn.

For me, I try to keep it very simple.  I use gel that I buy in 20 oz bottles and fill 5 oz flasks.  I usually dilute it 4:1 gel:water.  It is much easier to consume that way.  Your body can only absorb a limited amount of calories in an hour so going beyond that does nothing but increase the risk of GI issues.  I figure about 250-300 calories an hour for me.  That means a flask of gel will last me two hours which I try to evenly consume ( sip every 15 minutes).  I top off the calories with whatever I'm drinking, usually G2.

Try different things and see what works best for you.  Now is the time to figure it out NOT halfway through your race. 

2015-02-16 11:27 AM
in reply to: popsracer

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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman - 20 Weeks - RPE Questions

And so begins week four.  Today's swim includes a 1500 yard continuous swim.  I think it is better to break these down into 3 x 500 or shorter intervals, especially this early in the plan.  Last week of prep phase though I'm been doing some extra running.  I had a pretty solid run base going in so I stayed with most of my prior run workload.

Feeling very, very good at this point.  Just need to stay injury free.  

2015-02-16 3:19 PM
in reply to: popsracer

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Minneapolis, Minnesota
Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman - 20 Weeks - RPE Questions
Nice, im on the same plan starting week 4. I have had to take a break from running and have been hitting the bike and swim harder while my leg recovers. This crappy winter needs to be over so i can get outside.
2015-02-24 2:59 PM
in reply to: rhetbehler


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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman - 20 Weeks - RPE Questions
I am enjoying this discussion - so many of the same questions I have about training.
I am signed up for Boulder 70.3 and IM Louisville and have been training in some way shape or form since December. These will be my first IM races!

I actually hired a coach to train me, but she is a friend and has never done an IM before and has kind of a different training philosophy than I do - so I am having some trust issues (and considering adding in extra workouts from this 20 week plan). She doesn't believe in high volume but does believe in interval training, and training at a pace and effort faster and higher than that which you will race at. I am more of a high volume training person, which is why I am so conflicted about her training plan.

Does anyone here have an opinion in the matter? High volume vs more Intervals?
2015-02-24 3:46 PM
in reply to: 0

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Westminster, Colorado
Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman - 20 Weeks - RPE Questions
I'm on week 5 and I'm feeling really strong. I've had some days where I have struggled significantly to motivate myself and I have missed 3-4 days of in my first 4 weeks but overall I have been super committed. have become much more acclimated to the routine and his last week I felt very strong. I joined a weekly running group along with a weekly masters swim group to help me with the training. Training with others has helped tremendously. My training log is updated if you're interested in seeing my workload. I'm also noticing how important hydration and nutrition are. I haven't been the best when it comes to my diet and that doesn't cut it when doing this much training. My tips for the plan so far would be to join a group to help with training, pay attention to nutrition and hydration and finally stay consistent. Just a follow up on my original post. Doing multiple workouts per day wasn't a problem after my first week. I spread my workouts out by either morning and evening or by a couple of hours depending on my schedule. As popsracer and hot runner suggested as long as you keep recovery in mind you can really fit the plan to your needs.

One issue I'm having is logging accurate distance and times for swims. What does everyone do when the plan ask for a swim workout as such:
45 minutes
wu: 250 alternating each 50 swim and kick
main: 400, 4 x 100, 300, 3 x 100, 200, 2x100
long intervals are RPE 4, 100s are at RPE 7-8(alternate, remove 1st 400)
cd: 3 x 75, each slower than last

When I do this workout I am taking a break after each set in my wu and main. I will do a maximum of 60 seconds and a minimum of 15 seconds between sets depending on the workout. So here is the dilemma for me, firstly I am doing the distances in meters not yards. Secondly, I am just logging the actual workout into my training log not taking into account the ACTUAL time it took me to do the swim. This particular workout is slated for 45mins but it will probably take me more like an 75mins with breaks. I essentially just copy the "plan" to my log and call it a day. I'm assuming this is fine for the bulk of the workouts. Im' guessing what is important is the time trial and continuous swims as those would show a more accurate representation of time.

Edited by rhetbehler 2015-02-24 3:54 PM


2015-02-24 3:48 PM
in reply to: jodylead

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Westminster, Colorado
Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman - 20 Weeks - RPE Questions
Originally posted by jodylead
Does anyone here have an opinion in the matter? High volume vs more Intervals?


I don't have a ton of experience but IMO I would say do what you feel is best for you. If your current coach doesn't have the experience you feel comfortable with then do what others have been successful with. Mental strength is a huge component to your race and if you're not confident you're not going to race well.
2015-02-24 4:07 PM
in reply to: rhetbehler

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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman - 20 Weeks - RPE Questions
I also noticed that swims on a lot of the BT plans don't specify recovery. It should generally be around 10-20% of the swim time, toward the shorter end for lower RPE stuff focusing on endurance, toward the higher end (or maybe even longer) if you are really working on speed. For training, meters vs. yards doesn't matter. It can't hurt you to swim 10% more, can it? If time is an issue I guess you could always cut off a rep somewhere. (That starts to matter, sort of, with a workout pushing 4000 m/yards, where there's a difference of almost 8 minutes between the two!) As for logging, people do different things. I think the time given is just an estimate of the time it would take an average tri swimmer to accomplish the "swim" portion of the workout (not counting recovery, etc.) Probably in the neighborhood of 2 minutes/100 yards. Personally I just start a watch every time I start swimming, and stop it when I stop, so the time I log is the total time I actually spend swimming. I do that to be consistent with how I log running and biking (I don't time waiting at street crossings, for example, or stops to stretch, snack, etc.). I check my pace with the pace clock for most workouts. I'll usually record the typical time for a set. An example would be: "15 X 100 @ 1:50 (splits 1:35-1:40)" .
2015-02-25 7:23 AM
in reply to: jodylead

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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman - 20 Weeks - RPE Questions
I think the emphasis on quality vs, volume depends on your base in each discipline, your strengths and weaknesses, race goals, injury issues, etc. If you haven't worked up to the race distances for each leg in training, then clearly developing endurance and building volume needs to be a main focus, especially in the early stages. For example, I started training for my first HIM being totally comfortable with the swim and run distances, but never having done a training ride over 2 hours. Clearly I needed to work on increasing my long rides, as well as my speed on the bike!

On the other hand, if you have ambitious time goals, minimal injury concerns, and a solid base in one or more disciplines, then you would benefit from some higher intensity work in those. Even if you are working well above your HIM effort level, intervals, tempo and the like can help push up your max and threshold levels and increase your ability to hold a faster pace for a longer distance. One area where you can really see gains from higher intensity work with minimal injury risk is swimming, since it's impact-free. For most people, working in 1-2 higher intensity bike workouts per week would also give benefits and be more time-efficient than lots of extra volume. Run speedwork probably carries the highest risk of injury for most people--whether/how much it's worthwhile would really depend on your base fitness and competitive goals.

There's also the matter of individual responses to training--some do better on a "diet" of higher volume and lower intensity, some vice versa; some also prefer (or due to time constraints, require) one method or another. In my mind it's something you need to discuss with your coach, and if your coach is too dogmatic about it, maybe seek another one. I'd be wary of anyone who takes a "one size fits all" approach.
2015-02-25 4:45 PM
in reply to: Hot Runner


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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman - 20 Weeks - RPE Questions
Thank you for the feedback, I appreciate your thoughts!
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